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Graeme Thomas
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 6:55 am
Post subject: Re: English and French: peace, not war? |
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In article <20050527.0246.60017snz@dsl.co.uk>, Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
<bhk@dsl.co.uk> writes
| Quote: | For instance, I went to a lecture a couple of days ago, given by a
visiting Professor Emiritus of the University of Newcastle. All of his
slides showed the arms of (presumably) the university. It would be very
easy to describe (or "emblazon" them) unambiguously: Azure, a Cross
Moline argent; on a chief of the second, a Lion Passant Gardant gules.
Which means: on a field of blue, a cross (with curly ends, like that used
to re-inforce a millstone) in white (argent==silver==white in heraldry).
In the upper part of the shield (approx a quarter), which is also white
instead, a lion seen sideways on, walking and with the face turned toward
the viewer (as in the "Three Lions on the Shirt") in red.
The "cross moline" and "chief" are ordinaries; the "lion passant gardant"
is a sub-ordinary.
(I may have got my red and blue counterposed: believe it or not, when I
went to check at www.ncl.ac.uk, they only had the shield in monochrome.)
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The field on that shield is hatched with horizontal lines, which should
indicate azure. The worth of that theory is, perhaps, lessened by the
fact that the lion is not hatched at all, which means it should be sable
(black). If it were gules (red) then it should be hatched with vertical
lines.
--
Graeme Thomas
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Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 2:35 am
Post subject: Re: English and French: peace, not war? |
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On Sunday, in article <7UuFyBAZMRmCFwVb@graemet.demon.co.uk>
graeme@graemet.demon.co.uk "Graeme Thomas" wrote:
| Quote: | In article <20050527.0246.60017snz@dsl.co.uk>, Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
bhk@dsl.co.uk> writes
(I may have got my red and blue counterposed: believe it or not, when I
went to check at www.ncl.ac.uk, they only had the shield in monochrome.)
The field on that shield is hatched with horizontal lines, which should
indicate azure. The worth of that theory is, perhaps, lessened by the
fact that the lion is not hatched at all, which means it should be sable
(black). If it were gules (red) then it should be hatched with vertical
lines.
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Quite: is there no one here that is an alumnus of ncl (or even a
present-day student)? I'm almost certain that the OHP (sorry,
PowerPoint) slides I saw did not have a lion sable.
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk
"Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu
le loisir de la faire plus courte."
Blaise Pascal, /Lettres Provinciales/, 1657 |
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Philip Powell
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:34 am
Post subject: Re: English and French: peace, not war? |
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In message <20050527.0246.60017snz@dsl.co.uk>, Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
<bhk@dsl.co.uk> writes
| Quote: | On Thursday, in article <NMgle.8$Su1.0@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net
john.briggs4@ntlworld.com "John Briggs" wrote:
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote:
On Wednesday, in article <wmr0FHlJWClCFw$Y@molly.mockford
nospamnobody@mollymockford.me.uk "Molly Mockford" wrote:
[1] A "coat of arms" usually includes both a device and a motto, but
some of the oldest ones have no motto, as they were first used in the
days when a device alone was normal.
Those interested in Heraldry will contend that there is no such thing
as "a coat of arms". They'll generally refer to "an achievement" or
possibly "armorial bearings". The whole kit and caboodle does indeed
include the shield (or lozenge, or whatever as appropriate to the
holder) AND the crest AND the supporters AND the motto.
But not the badge or other, er, device...
Badges are akin to, but separate from, armorial bearings. "Devices" are
not the terminology used in heraldry, which refers instead to
"ordinaries" and "sub-ordinaries" for the various bits and bobs that
appear upon a shield. (Collectively, all these "devices" are called
"charges".)
For instance, I went to a lecture a couple of days ago, given by a
visiting Professor Emiritus of the University of Newcastle. All of his
slides showed the arms of (presumably) the university. It would be very
easy to describe (or "emblazon" them) unambiguously: Azure, a Cross
Moline argent; on a chief of the second, a Lion Passant Gardant gules.
Which means: on a field of blue, a cross (with curly ends, like that used
to re-inforce a millstone) in white (argent==silver==white in heraldry).
In the upper part of the shield (approx a quarter), which is also white
instead, a lion seen sideways on, walking and with the face turned toward
the viewer (as in the "Three Lions on the Shirt") in red.
The "cross moline" and "chief" are ordinaries; the "lion passant gardant"
is a sub-ordinary.
(I may have got my red and blue counterposed: believe it or not, when I
went to check at www.ncl.ac.uk, they only had the shield in monochrome.)
As far as most Geordies[0] are concerned - there are only 2 colours (-: |
0: Not me, though - especially as I'm not a Geordie.
--
Philip Powell
Looking north across the Derwent Valley and Northumberland
to The Cheviot
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Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:06 am
Post subject: Re: English and French: peace, not war? |
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On Tue, 31 May 2005 20:34:42 +0100, in article
<fVIUE9mSxLnCFwYU@f9h9r.deletespam.org.uk>
nospam@f9h9r.deletespam.org.uk "Philip Powell" wrote:
| Quote: | In message <20050527.0246.60017snz@dsl.co.uk>, Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
bhk@dsl.co.uk> writes
(I may have got my red and blue counterposed: believe it or not, when I
went to check at www.ncl.ac.uk, they only had the shield in monochrome.)
As far as most Geordies[0] are concerned - there are only 2 colours (-:
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Ah yes: Paly, Argent and Sable.
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk
"Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu
le loisir de la faire plus courte."
Blaise Pascal, /Lettres Provinciales/, 1657 |
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