| Author |
Message |
Pierre Hallet
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 3:01 am
Post subject: English and French: peace, not war? |
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Good evening,
I want to beg for your indulgence: on one hand, English
is not my mother tongue, so that I am likely to make no
end of mistakes; on the other hand, I have the gall to
post to a uk. newsgroup while I'm not even British; and
on the third hand (how freaky), I'll be speaking about a
subject which I gather is far from being a hot topic here.
Should you however bear with me, here it is:
I am a frequent contributor to fr.lettres.langue.francaise,
a francophone newsgroup rather similar to this one, with
this interesting difference that a significant number of
its posts are about, er, let us call it the "language war"
between English and French (e.g. the decline in the use
of French in Europe). Several contributors are passionate
about that, especially Frenchmen. Now I am a Belgian and
I am using a lot of English at work (when we have a meeting
with colleagues from Luxemburg and the Netherlands, guess
the working language?), so I am reluctant to take sides in
this "war". Someone addressed me recently, writing:
"You never answer when I ask you why we shouldn't be
pleased when /la francophonie/ progresses, or grieve
when it retreats, or get annoyed by elusive reactions."
My answer was:
"I am a win-win fan. I cannot be pleased by a progress
if it means a retreat by someone else. But as far as
languages are concerned, it is possible, and that's the
point, to have progress /everywhere/. Nothing forbids
/anyone/ from speaking several languages, save laziness
and inertia, sometimes also, alas! xenophobia and/or
contempt. And nothing forbids both French and English
to progress together, and even to take advantage of
their synergies to back each other up. But if we stick
to concepts of struggle, hereditary enemy, and I-win-
only-if-you-lose, then success won't be there."
Upon which it was suggested that I submit my subversive
ideas to an English-speaking newsgroup, just to see how
they would react. I took up the challenge, and here I am,
hoping I'm not too much of an intruder.
Thank you for your kind attention and maybe for your
feedback. You are also welcome if you wish to direct me
to a more adequate newsgroup for my ramblings (europa.
linguas, maybe? but someone mentioned you first).
--
Pierre Hallet (Brussels)
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 5:38 am
Post subject: Re: English and French: peace, not war? |
|
|
On Thu, 19 May 2005 23:01:50 +0200, "Pierre Hallet"
<pierre.hallet@skynet.be> wrote:
| Quote: | Good evening,
I want to beg for your indulgence: on one hand, English
is not my mother tongue, so that I am likely to make no
end of mistakes; on the other hand, I have the gall to
post to a uk. newsgroup while I'm not even British; and
on the third hand (how freaky), I'll be speaking about a
subject which I gather is far from being a hot topic here.
Should you however bear with me, here it is:
I am a frequent contributor to fr.lettres.langue.francaise,
a francophone newsgroup rather similar to this one, with
this interesting difference that a significant number of
its posts are about, er, let us call it the "language war"
between English and French (e.g. the decline in the use
of French in Europe). Several contributors are passionate
about that, especially Frenchmen. Now I am a Belgian and
I am using a lot of English at work (when we have a meeting
with colleagues from Luxemburg and the Netherlands, guess
the working language?), so I am reluctant to take sides in
this "war". Someone addressed me recently, writing:
"You never answer when I ask you why we shouldn't be
pleased when /la francophonie/ progresses, or grieve
when it retreats, or get annoyed by elusive reactions."
My answer was:
"I am a win-win fan. I cannot be pleased by a progress
if it means a retreat by someone else. But as far as
languages are concerned, it is possible, and that's the
point, to have progress /everywhere/. Nothing forbids
/anyone/ from speaking several languages, save laziness
and inertia, sometimes also, alas! xenophobia and/or
contempt. And nothing forbids both French and English
to progress together, and even to take advantage of
their synergies to back each other up. But if we stick
to concepts of struggle, hereditary enemy, and I-win-
only-if-you-lose, then success won't be there."
Upon which it was suggested that I submit my subversive
ideas to an English-speaking newsgroup, just to see how
they would react. I took up the challenge, and here I am,
hoping I'm not too much of an intruder.
Thank you for your kind attention and maybe for your
feedback. You are also welcome if you wish to direct me
to a more adequate newsgroup for my ramblings (europa.
linguas, maybe? but someone mentioned you first).
|
Welcome to this newsgroup. You are not intruding.
I am just about to switch off my computer and go to bed, so I will make the
brief comment that your answer does not seem subversive from my anglophone
point of view.
It will be interesting to see what other people's replies are.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK
(posting from u.c.l.e) |
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Sas
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 11:05 pm
Post subject: Re: English and French: peace, not war? |
|
|
| Quote: | Good evening,
I want to beg for your indulgence: on one hand, English
is not my mother tongue, so that I am likely to make no
end of mistakes; on the other hand, I have the gall to
post to a uk. newsgroup while I'm not even British; and
on the third hand (how freaky), I'll be speaking about a
subject which I gather is far from being a hot topic here.
Should you however bear with me, here it is:
I am a frequent contributor to fr.lettres.langue.francaise,
a francophone newsgroup rather similar to this one, with
this interesting difference that a significant number of
its posts are about, er, let us call it the "language war"
between English and French (e.g. the decline in the use
of French in Europe). Several contributors are passionate
about that, especially Frenchmen. Now I am a Belgian and
I am using a lot of English at work (when we have a meeting
with colleagues from Luxemburg and the Netherlands, guess
the working language?), so I am reluctant to take sides in
this "war". Someone addressed me recently, writing:
"You never answer when I ask you why we shouldn't be
pleased when /la francophonie/ progresses, or grieve
when it retreats, or get annoyed by elusive reactions."
My answer was:
"I am a win-win fan. I cannot be pleased by a progress
if it means a retreat by someone else. But as far as
languages are concerned, it is possible, and that's the
point, to have progress /everywhere/. Nothing forbids
/anyone/ from speaking several languages, save laziness
and inertia, sometimes also, alas! xenophobia and/or
contempt. And nothing forbids both French and English
to progress together, and even to take advantage of
their synergies to back each other up. But if we stick
to concepts of struggle, hereditary enemy, and I-win-
only-if-you-lose, then success won't be there."
Upon which it was suggested that I submit my subversive
ideas to an English-speaking newsgroup, just to see how
they would react. I took up the challenge, and here I am,
hoping I'm not too much of an intruder.
Thank you for your kind attention and maybe for your
feedback. You are also welcome if you wish to direct me
to a more adequate newsgroup for my ramblings (europa.
linguas, maybe? but someone mentioned you first).
--
Pierre Hallet (Brussels)
|
Hi, first of all, let me remark, that your english is not bad at all. The
contrary actually.
I don't have a specific answer, in reality I even believe the "war" is more
intense than you would ever guess. I live in Germany, where the same problem
exists between english and german. In fact all scientific conferencies,
colloquia, meetings etc are held in english, even if they are held locally.
At least in physics! Probably the english language has gained some ground in
many aspects, so it is difficult to say.
But I will agree with you, I really believe that french are the most
passionate defenders of their language. I am a member of both groups, and
of two german ones as well fr.lettre.langue.allemande and
de.etc.sprache.deutsch. Now, it could be simply a coincidence, but german
contributions are generally of a much lower linguistic level than french
ones. The answers giben to the questions, though correct, are not always
followed by the same linguistic background support, i.e. rules, names of the
discussed phenomena etc. Even less in english. But, since the number of
people contributing is not really that big, I am not sure about the
generality of the statement.
And a final thought (I hope I will not provoke too much), but since english
has become a lingua franca, most of the english speaking people don't have
to bother to learn any foreign language. And thus, quite often they do not
have the same grammar background. I couldn't possibly estimate the extend
of such a correlation, but at least along my acquaintances it is so. And
there is a certain logic to it I dare say.
Well that's all. I just wanted to feed a bit the discussion.
Best regards
Schorschi
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Molly Mockford
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 11:45 pm
Post subject: Re: English and French: peace, not war? |
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At 19:05:53 on Fri, 20 May 2005, Sas <schorschi100@hotmail.com> wrote in
<d6l5df$915$1@news.uni-kl.de>:
| Quote: | And a final thought (I hope I will not provoke too much), but since english
has become a lingua franca, most of the english speaking people don't have
to bother to learn any foreign language.
|
This is regrettably more and more often the case these days. When I was
at school, we started to learn French at the age of 7, and German some
years later. I don't think that happens now.
| Quote: | And thus, quite often they do not
have the same grammar background.
|
Well, there are some parts of grammar which extend to all languages, and
some which are related to one specific language only. I was taught the
latter initially, extending a little bit to generalities once we started
to learn Latin. I doubt whether grammar is much taught now in UK
schools - at least, not in the way that I remember it (parsing, analysis
etc.).
We had an extra incentive, however, to be fluent in French at least; in
those days, French pop music was all the rage (Johnny Hallyday,
Francoise Hardy, Richard Antony etc.) and one was expected by one's
friends to know all the words, accurately, and be able to translate
them. These days, practically all pop music is in English (although one
could reasonably question the standard of English in many cases!) and so
youngsters don't have that particular personal incentive to study songs
in foreign languages.
--
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) |
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Pierre Hallet
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 2:04 am
Post subject: Re: English and French: peace, not war? |
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Molly Mockford:
| Quote: | Sas:
And a final thought (I hope I will not provoke too
much), but since english has become a lingua franca,
most of the english speaking people don't have to
bother to learn any foreign language.
|
The key word here is "bother". Is learning French just
a bother, or shouldn't it be an enrichment? I learned
English at school and it was useful to my later career
(I'm working in computers), but it went beyond being
just "useful". Thus, I can recite Poe's "The Raven", or
Hamlet's first soliloquy, which I learned just for fun,
because I marvelled over the music of the words. But
this must no doubt exist in the other direction...
"Mes chers amis, quand je mourrai
Plantez un saule au cimetière
J'aime son feuillage éploré
La pâleur m'en est douce et chère
Et son ombre sera légère
À la terre où je dormirai."
("My good friends, when I die
Plant a willow near my grave
I like its weeping boughs
Its paleness I find sweet and dear,
And its shadow will weigh lightly
On the soil where I'll be sleeping.")
| Quote: | This is regrettably more and more often the case
these days. When I was at school, we started to
learn French at the age of 7, and German some
years later. I don't think that happens now.
|
Yes... school seems not to be the best place
where to learn a foreign language. Everywhere.
| Quote: | And thus, quite often they do not
have the same grammar background.
Well, there are some parts of grammar which extend
to all languages, and some which are related to one
specific language only. I was taught the latter
initially, extending a little bit to generalities
once we started to learn Latin. I doubt whether
grammar is much taught now in UK schools - at least,
not in the way that I remember it (parsing, analysis
etc.).
|
You might smile to learn that they make similar complaints
in French-speaking countries.
| Quote: | We had an extra incentive, however, to be fluent in
French at least; in those days, French pop music was
all the rage (Johnny Hallyday, Francoise Hardy, Richard
Antony etc.) and one was expected by one's friends to
know all the words, accurately, and be able to translate
them.
|
Incredible! I hadn't the slightest idea of that. How long
did it last?
| Quote: | These days, practically all pop music is in English
(although one could reasonably question the standard of
English in many cases!) and so youngsters don't have that
particular personal incentive to study songs in foreign
languages.
|
Besides, translating lyrics from English to other languages
is kind of a challenge for many of the songs nowadays...
Thank you all for your kind answers.
--
Pierre Hallet (Brussels) |
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joye
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 7:17 am
Post subject: Re: Une culture [was: Re: English and French: peace, not w |
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"Erick Andrews"
| Quote: | (To put a finer point
on it, my Dutch friend years ago used to tell me, 'to possess
another language is to possess another soul'. He spoke
7 languages very well ...I forget who he was quoting).
|
Charlemagne. |
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Erick Andrews
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 7:17 am
Post subject: Une culture [was: Re: English and French: peace, not war?] |
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On Fri, 20 May 2005 20:04:17 UTC, "Pierre Hallet" <pierre.hallet@skynet.be> wrote:
| Quote: | Molly Mockford:
Sas:
And a final thought (I hope I will not provoke too
much), but since english has become a lingua franca,
most of the english speaking people don't have to
bother to learn any foreign language.
The key word here is "bother". Is learning French just
a bother, or shouldn't it be an enrichment? I learned
English at school and it was useful to my later career
(I'm working in computers), but it went beyond being
just "useful". Thus, I can recite Poe's "The Raven", or
Hamlet's first soliloquy, which I learned just for fun,
because I marvelled over the music of the words. But
this must no doubt exist in the other direction...
|
I think learning more than one language is a profound
thing to do. Yeah, me and computers like yourself, too.
That's my background.
High tech stuff gets commoditized faster than languages,
I think, and although history doesn't reveal its alternatives,
perhaps I should've spent more time in the language lab
than in the engineering labs.
Well, I studied French in school, here on Cape Cod, in
the late '50s - '60s, and I loved it. I did well then. French
liked me. I played a frenchman on a small stage once.
My biz travels (yes, to Brussels, too) made me realize
how important it is to get "immersed" in French. Or German,
Spanish, Italian, etc. Language also defines a culture, and
vice versa. So I figure I have only 1.5 "souls" because my
French is only "advanced survival" now. (To put a finer point
on it, my Dutch friend years ago used to tell me, 'to possess
another language is to possess another soul'. He spoke
7 languages very well ...I forget who he was quoting).
| Quote: | "Mes chers amis, quand je mourrai
Plantez un saule au cimetière
J'aime son feuillage éploré
La pâleur m'en est douce et chère
Et son ombre sera légère
À la terre où je dormirai."
("My good friends, when I die
Plant a willow near my grave
I like its weeping boughs
Its paleness I find sweet and dear,
And its shadow will weigh lightly
On the soil where I'll be sleeping.")
|
Nice. May I send it to my dear friend in Antibes
(British; language teacher) for comment?
| Quote: | This is regrettably more and more often the case
these days. When I was at school, we started to
learn French at the age of 7, and German some
years later. I don't think that happens now.
|
I don't know what happens now -- in the States -- either.
It's a 'no language left behind' issue (Sorry!)
You were fortunate. I didn't get to take French and Spanish
until I was about 13 - 14. I wanted to earlier, but was deprived.
That's because my English teacher said my English grade
wasn't good enough, yet later, after 3 years of foreign
language, I was top in my class. Screw her. A good teacher
will nurture enthusiasm (a wonderful Greek word, BTW).
| Quote: | Yes... school seems not to be the best place
where to learn a foreign language. Everywhere.
|
I agree, and more: language = culture.
My sweetie and I go to Canada once in a while. In Québec
they will say 'une bicyclette au gas', when in France we're more
apt to hear 'un moto-bike'!
| Quote: | And thus, quite often they do not
have the same grammar background.
Well, there are some parts of grammar which extend
to all languages, and some which are related to one
specific language only. I was taught the latter
initially, extending a little bit to generalities
once we started to learn Latin. I doubt whether
grammar is much taught now in UK schools - at least,
not in the way that I remember it (parsing, analysis
etc.).
You might smile to learn that they make similar complaints
in French-speaking countries.
|
Got some juicy examples?! I'd love to hear them!
| Quote: | We had an extra incentive, however, to be fluent in
French at least; in those days, French pop music was
all the rage (Johnny Hallyday, Francoise Hardy, Richard
Antony etc.) and one was expected by one's friends to
know all the words, accurately, and be able to translate
them.
Incredible! I hadn't the slightest idea of that. How long
did it last?
|
I never heard of them either though I'm interested.
I still have some Edith Piaf records. She did a few songs
in English, but I think (Americans at least) loved to hear
her songs sung in French -- even though we didn't know
most of the words. She was reasonably popular in the
States, say, '30s - '50s.
| Quote: | These days, practically all pop music is in English
(although one could reasonably question the standard of
English in many cases!) and so youngsters don't have that
particular personal incentive to study songs in foreign
languages.
Besides, translating lyrics from English to other languages
is kind of a challenge for many of the songs nowadays...
|
Likely to do more with local culture than translating words.
| Quote: | Thank you all for your kind answers.
|
Merci, aussi.
--
Best,
Erick Andrews
delete bogus to reply |
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Pierre Hallet
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 1:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Une culture [was: Re: English and French: peace, not w |
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Erick Andrews :
| Quote: |
"Mes chers amis, quand je mourrai
Plantez un saule au cimetière
J'aime son feuillage éploré
La pâleur m'en est douce et chère
Et son ombre sera légère
À la terre où je dormirai."
("My good friends, when I die
Plant a willow near my grave
I like its weeping boughs
Its paleness I find sweet and dear,
And its shadow will weigh lightly
On the soil where I'll be sleeping.")
Nice. May I send it to my dear friend in Antibes
(British; language teacher) for comment?
|
The author won't object: he died in 1857.
<http://poesie.webnet.fr/poemes/France/musset/61.html>.
--
Pierre Hallet |
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John of Aix
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 1:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Une culture [was: Re: English and French: peace, not w |
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Erick Andrews wrote:
| Quote: | My sweetie and I go to Canada once in a while. In Québec
they will say 'une bicyclette au gas', when in France we're more
apt to hear 'un moto-bike'!
|
I've never heard that. Usually one says 'une moto', the short form of
'motocyclette'. |
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Molly Mockford
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 2:27 pm
Post subject: Re: English and French: peace, not war? |
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At 22:04:17 on Fri, 20 May 2005, Pierre Hallet <pierre.hallet@skynet.be>
wrote in <3f6u64F69g9mU1@individual.net>:
| Quote: | Molly Mockford:
We had an extra incentive, however, to be fluent in
French at least; in those days, French pop music was
all the rage (Johnny Hallyday, Francoise Hardy, Richard
Antony etc.) and one was expected by one's friends to
know all the words, accurately, and be able to translate
them.
Incredible! I hadn't the slightest idea of that. How long
did it last?
|
For several years in the early 1960s. Francoise Hardy's "Tous les
garcons et les filles de mon age" was a hymn for a generation, and
probably the key record which made French pop so popular in the UK. It
helped that the French pop artists of the time sang very clearly, so it
was easy to make out the words and look up those that one didn't know (I
remember struggling over "mon amour de naguere" and being very proud
when I found the word in a dictionary - if sung today, it would probably
sound more like "mon amour de la guerre"!).
(Once we had cut our teeth on Hardy, Hallyday etc. we were able to move
on to the likes of Jacques Brel - more grown-up, much more difficult,
but thoroughly worth the effort!)
The French music fad in the UK was so pronounced that Johnny Hallyday
even released some records in English and came over here to publicise
them; however (apart from "Blueberry Hill") they were never as
successful here as his French ones. "Retiens La Nuit" was so much more
beautiful than his English version, "Hold Back the Sun"!
--
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) |
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John of Aix
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 4:57 pm
Post subject: Re: English and French: peace, not war? |
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Molly Mockford wrote:
| Quote: | At 22:04:17 on Fri, 20 May 2005, Pierre Hallet
pierre.hallet@skynet.be> wrote in <3f6u64F69g9mU1@individual.net>:
Molly Mockford:
We had an extra incentive, however, to be fluent in
French at least; in those days, French pop music was
all the rage (Johnny Hallyday, Francoise Hardy, Richard
Antony etc.) and one was expected by one's friends to
know all the words, accurately, and be able to translate
them.
Incredible! I hadn't the slightest idea of that. How long
did it last?
For several years in the early 1960s. Francoise Hardy's "Tous les
garcons et les filles de mon age" was a hymn for a generation, and
probably the key record which made French pop so popular in the UK. It
helped that the French pop artists of the time sang very clearly,
so it was easy to make out the words and look up those that one
didn't know (I remember struggling over "mon amour de naguere" and
being very proud when I found the word in a dictionary - if sung
today, it would probably sound more like "mon amour de la guerre"!).
(Once we had cut our teeth on Hardy, Hallyday etc. we were able to
move on to the likes of Jacques Brel - more grown-up, much more
difficult, but thoroughly worth the effort!)
|
I too remember this time as I lived in England then. I always thought
Johnny was a bit of a waste of time, an averagely competent rocker but
nothing special. I liked Richard Anthony who I thought did better stuff
in English that what I have heard in French since, and he had a superb
voice.
Françoise Hardy is, of course, 'toute autre'. 'Iconic' as they say. I
thought she was great right from the beginning, and sexy of course, I
was about 14 at the time. She is still around and still doing good stuff
when she records as well as being a respected astrologer.
Sadly for Brel, in relation to the English, many probably only know him
through English covers. 'If you go away' is most definitely not on the
same level as 'Ne me quitte pas'. Unfortunately my French at the time
was not sufficient to really understand any French texts, just get the
gist sometimes. That has been remedied since and I can appreciate fully
the 'parolier', a species rather lacking in popular music in the English
speaking world.
Later, to the period you mention, another French tune made it in
Britain, and in the original French (it could not be otherwise), Serge
Gainsbourg and Jane Birkin doing 'Je t'aime, moi non plus', which
brought about much discussion on the title's meaning among us wannabe
intellectuals. The BBC banned it as being too erotic and so sales
soared, so much so that it reached the top of the charts. The then all
important programme Top of the Pops played about seven or eight of the
top twenty records each week but *always* played the number one, which
the song had become since the last show. I watched and waited to see how
the BBC would resolve this dilemma. In what was probably a joke from the
backroom boys, so horrendously bad was it, instead of Serge and Jane we
were treated to a syrupy James Last instrumental version that had me
falling off my chair laughing. |
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Phil C.
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 6:06 pm
Post subject: Re: English and French: peace, not war? |
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On Sat, 21 May 2005 12:57:06 +0200, "John of Aix"
<j.murphy@libertysurf.fr> wrote:
| Quote: | Françoise Hardy is, of course, 'toute autre'. 'Iconic' as they say. I
thought she was great right from the beginning, and sexy of course, I
was about 14 at the time. She is still around and still doing good stuff
when she records as well as being a respected astrologer.
|
Is that an oxymoron? Answers on a postcard.
| Quote: | Later, to the period you mention, another French tune made it in
Britain, and in the original French (it could not be otherwise), Serge
Gainsbourg and Jane Birkin doing 'Je t'aime, moi non plus', which
brought about much discussion on the title's meaning among us wannabe
intellectuals. The BBC banned it as being too erotic and so sales
soared, so much so that it reached the top of the charts.
|
As far as I'm concerned, it all went downhill after Charles Trenet.
(All together now... ) There was a brief fad for French pop in Britain
but I wonder what proportion it had of total sales - pretty low I
suspect. The British can't sustain wannabe intellectualism as well as
the French - especially if it involves smoking Gitanes and discussing
words ending in "isme" into the small hours.
--
Phil C. |
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Phil C.
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 6:06 pm
Post subject: Re: English and French: peace, not war? |
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On Thu, 19 May 2005 23:01:50 +0200, "Pierre Hallet"
<pierre.hallet@skynet.be> wrote:
| Quote: | I am a frequent contributor to fr.lettres.langue.francaise,
a francophone newsgroup rather similar to this one, with
this interesting difference that a significant number of
its posts are about, er, let us call it the "language war"
between English and French (e.g. the decline in the use
of French in Europe). Several contributors are passionate
about that, especially Frenchmen. Now I am a Belgian and
I am using a lot of English at work (when we have a meeting
with colleagues from Luxemburg and the Netherlands, guess
the working language?), so I am reluctant to take sides in
this "war".
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I don't think there's much consciousness in Britain of a language war
with other mainland European languages because it doesn't really
affect most Brits much. Perhaps that's human nature - we hardly
notice, say, that foreign politicians and academics are nearly always
interviewed in English - it becomes "normal".
Perhaps the "war" image takes off when languages feel threatened. If
you were to ask Brits what they understand by "the language war" then,
if anything, they'd talk about American vs British English or dialects
vs "Standard English" or the battle of Welsh and Gaelic to survive or
a perceived decline in standards of English. Parts of the USA (I
believe) would talk about the rise of Spanish as a first language etc.
I think several distinct issues can get confused into one in
discussing wars between languages - the status of different languages
in international use, the influx of terms from one language (or
version) into another and the desirability/benefits of learning
foreign languages in general. The issue of importing language terms
gets further confused by wider issues of cultural imports - music,
films, food etc.
--
Phil C. |
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John Hall
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 12:38 am
Post subject: Re: English and French: peace, not war? |
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In article <409u81ttfqr5n8r6jojkiurr3i27dd976m@4ax.com>,
Phil C. <philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net> writes:
| Quote: | On Sat, 21 May 2005 12:57:06 +0200, "John of Aix"
j.murphy@libertysurf.fr> wrote:
Françoise Hardy is, of course, 'toute autre'. 'Iconic' as they say. I
thought she was great right from the beginning, and sexy of course, I
was about 14 at the time. She is still around and still doing good stuff
when she records as well as being a respected astrologer.
Is that an oxymoron? Answers on a postcard.
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I was just about to make the same suggestion. But as John says, she was
a great and sexy singer (and perhaps still is, for all I know).
--
John Hall "Do you have cornflakes in America?"
"Well, actually, they're American."
"So what brings you to Britain then if you have cornflakes already?"
Bill Bryson: "Notes from a Small Island" |
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Erick Andrews
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 2:01 am
Post subject: Re: Une culture [was: Re: English and French: peace, not w |
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On Sat, 21 May 2005 07:47:06 UTC, "John of Aix" <j.murphy@libertysurf.fr> wrote:
| Quote: | Erick Andrews wrote:
My sweetie and I go to Canada once in a while. In Québec
they will say 'une bicyclette au gas', when in France we're more
apt to hear 'un moto-bike'!
I've never heard that. Usually one says 'une moto', the short form of
'motocyclette'.
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It's possible I suffer from CRS. However, it was circa 1982 -- yet I AM sure
it was 'un parisien' at a restaurant in Annecy who made this comparison
in a friendly discussion at the table next to my wife and me. Like us, I think
he only drove a car.
Now I'm not so sure how it's said in Québec these days.
--
Best,
Erick Andrews
delete bogus to reply |
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