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Message |
Andrew Gwilliam
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 6:01 am
Post subject: Re: Manchester temperature? |
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On Wed, 18 May 2005 17:58:40 GMT, Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 18 May 2005 15:04:36 +0000 (UTC), Areff <me@privacy.net
wrote:
Tony Cooper wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2005 13:48:42 GMT, the Omrud <usenet.omrud@gmail.com
wrote:
It's been said here that ManU fans are calling him the "Hitler of
Manchester". A very unkind remark about a Jewish businessman.
It is, but I doubt they know he's Jewish. I didn't. It's not
something which would normally be mentioned here. I sometimes
discover that well-know people are Jewish, decades after I first
encountered them in the media. There are undoubtedly many more that
I haven't discovered. It's not normally a subject of discussion, any
more than being a Catholic would be.
I didn't know it either until the media reported the Hitler comments
and brought up the fact that Glazer is Jewish. Had the Hitler
comments not surfaced, the religion would not have been known.
It is the opposite of Godwin's Law.
"Glazer" is a pretty common Ashkenazic Jewish surname here in the US, at
least where such surnames themselves are common (e.g., not in Seattle)
but I wouldn't think of "Malcolm" as being a particularly common
forename among American Jews for whatever generation.
Glazer is so low-profile here that most people don't even recognize
the name, and many that do think of it as "Glazier".
From an article about him:
"A resident of Palm Beach, Florida, Malcolm Glazer was born in
Rochester, New York. He and his wife, Linda, have six children: Avram,
Kevin, Bryan, Joel, Ed and Darcie."
How many families have a Avram and a Kevin?
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Bad science fiction?
--
Andrew Gwilliam
To email me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "silverhelm" |
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Andrew Gwilliam
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 6:02 am
Post subject: Re: Manchester temperature? |
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On Wed, 18 May 2005 11:21:03 -0700, Sara Lorimer wrote:
| Quote: | Areff wrote:
"Glazer" is a pretty common Ashkenazic Jewish surname here in the US, at
least where such surnames themselves are common (e.g., not in Seattle)
but I wouldn't think of "Malcolm" as being a particularly common
forename among American Jews for whatever generation.
Not that this proves anything, but the only Malcolm I know is Jewish.
|
I would've said that "Malcolm" was Scottish. But is it of Gaelic origin,
or is it another foreign import to go with David, Alexander, and so on[1]?
[1] I'm assuming it's becoming widespread from a king's name.
--
Andrew Gwilliam
To email me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "silverhelm" |
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Andrew Gwilliam
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 6:05 am
Post subject: Re: Manchester temperature? |
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On Wed, 18 May 2005 17:38:40 +0100, Graeme Thomas wrote:
| Quote: | (They do things oddly at the MCC. I have been invited, by my friend, to
attend the opening day's play of the England/Bangladesh Test at Lord's
next week. For reasons beyond my ken the invitation will actually come
from the ECB[1]. This is a Good Thing, as that means that the
invitation also include access to the facilities of the ECB hospitality
marquee.)
[1] The ECB is the England and Wales Cricket Board. It is one of the
few known cases of the Welsh being silent.
|
I believe that this is because the MCC used to run English cricket, with
the ECB taking over fairly recently. Thus the English [ObAUE: "England"?]
team was (I think) the MCC team.
--
Andrew Gwilliam
To email me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "silverhelm" |
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Andrew Gwilliam
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 6:08 am
Post subject: Re: Manchester temperature? |
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On Thu, 19 May 2005 00:18:25 +0100, Peter Duncanson wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 18 May 2005 18:47:47 +0100, Andrew Gwilliam
bottomless_pit@southernskies.co.uk> wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks it economic stupidity to use a business's
assets to fund massive loans to purchase said business, or is my naivety
preventing my becoming a successful multi-millionaire? It certainly seems
like madness in the case of a football club, it's not like they can open
more branches (unless I'm being woefully unimaginative).
Opening more branches is an interesting idea. They could start a "Manchester
United" in each soccer-playing country in the world. This could develop into
the Manchester United International Championship in which only MU teams
play. The Glazers are probably not ready for that sort of investment - they
need income.
|
Normally I would trot out the platitude that you have to spend money to
make money; but Mr Glazer appears to have a rather different approach (you
have to borrow on the basis of assets you don't possess in order to be able
to buy those assets). The banks are either very smart, or very dumb
(probably both, TBH).
--
Andrew Gwilliam
To email me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "silverhelm" |
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Murray Arnow
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 6:50 am
Post subject: Re: Manchester temperature? |
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rbaniste1@shaw.ca wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 18 May 2005 19:14:16 GMT, arnow@iname.com (Murray Arnow)
wrote:
rbaniste1@shaw.ca wrote:
Areff <me@privacy.net wrote:
[-]
"Glazer" is a pretty common Ashkenazic Jewish surname here in the US, at
least where such surnames themselves are common (e.g., not in Seattle)
but I wouldn't think of "Malcolm" as being a particularly common
forename among American Jews for whatever generation.
Long form of Mel is it not?
The long form of Melvin is more likely.
I only did it to annoy *somebody*'s smarter brother, in case he was
listening--unlikely but you never know your luck.
|
It seems that my too selective reading of posts combined with creeping dotage
prevents me picking up all subtleties.
obHelpForTheFeebleMinded: Even Eliot was forced to provide footnotes |
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Don Aitken
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:00 am
Post subject: Re: Manchester temperature? |
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On Thu, 19 May 2005 01:05:38 +0100, Andrew Gwilliam
<bottomless_pit@southernskies.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 18 May 2005 17:38:40 +0100, Graeme Thomas wrote:
(They do things oddly at the MCC. I have been invited, by my friend, to
attend the opening day's play of the England/Bangladesh Test at Lord's
next week. For reasons beyond my ken the invitation will actually come
from the ECB[1]. This is a Good Thing, as that means that the
invitation also include access to the facilities of the ECB hospitality
marquee.)
[1] The ECB is the England and Wales Cricket Board. It is one of the
few known cases of the Welsh being silent.
I believe that this is because the MCC used to run English cricket, with
the ECB taking over fairly recently. Thus the English [ObAUE: "England"?]
team was (I think) the MCC team.
|
But there was a period, just before the ECB took over, when the
relevant body was the "Test and County Cricket Board", which adhered
to the old English tradition that it is unnecessary to include the
name of the country, all such things being English unless otherwise
specified. Cf Football Association, Rugby Union, etc.
--
Don Aitken
Mail to the From: address is not read.
To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com" |
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Andrew Gwilliam
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:13 am
Post subject: Re: Manchester temperature? |
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On Thu, 19 May 2005 02:00:31 +0100, Don Aitken wrote:
| Quote: | But there was a period, just before the ECB took over, when the
relevant body was the "Test and County Cricket Board", [...]
|
Ah, wasn't sure about that.
| Quote: | [...] which adhered to the old English tradition that it is unnecessary
to include the name of the country, all such things being English unless
otherwise specified. Cf Football Association, Rugby Union, etc.
|
Not to mention that the UK must be about the only country in the world not
to put its name on its coins. I wonder why they stopped, I'm sure it used
to be on there ("Rex. Brit.", or suchlike).
No country name on its stamps, either. Maybe we're being minimalist, and
thus modern.
--
Andrew Gwilliam
To email me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "silverhelm" |
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Andrew Gwilliam
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:13 am
Post subject: Re: Manchester temperature? |
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On Thu, 19 May 2005 00:50:33 GMT, Murray Arnow wrote:
| Quote: | rbaniste1@shaw.ca wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2005 19:14:16 GMT, arnow@iname.com (Murray Arnow)
wrote:
rbaniste1@shaw.ca wrote:
Areff <me@privacy.net wrote:
[-]
"Glazer" is a pretty common Ashkenazic Jewish surname here in the US, at
least where such surnames themselves are common (e.g., not in Seattle)
but I wouldn't think of "Malcolm" as being a particularly common
forename among American Jews for whatever generation.
Long form of Mel is it not?
The long form of Melvin is more likely.
I only did it to annoy *somebody*'s smarter brother, in case he was
listening--unlikely but you never know your luck.
It seems that my too selective reading of posts combined with creeping dotage
prevents me picking up all subtleties.
obHelpForTheFeebleMinded: Even Eliot was forced to provide footnotes
|
My copy of Miss Smilla's Feeling for Snow has a single translator's
footnote at the beginning of one of its chapters. I don't believe that it
was the reader that was being feeble-minded with that one.
--
Andrew Gwilliam
To email me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "silverhelm" |
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CDB
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:14 am
Post subject: Re: Manchester temperature? |
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"Andrew Gwilliam" <bottomless_pit@southernskies.co.uk> wrote in
message news:428c1c53$0$38041$bed64819@news.gradwell.net...
| Quote: | On Thu, 19 May 2005 02:00:31 +0100, Don Aitken wrote:
But there was a period, just before the ECB took over, when the
relevant body was the "Test and County Cricket Board", [...]
Ah, wasn't sure about that.
[...] which adhered to the old English tradition that it is
unnecessary
to include the name of the country, all such things being English
unless
otherwise specified. Cf Football Association, Rugby Union, etc.
Not to mention that the UK must be about the only country in the
world not
to put its name on its coins. I wonder why they stopped, I'm sure
it used
to be on there ("Rex. Brit.", or suchlike).
No country name on its stamps, either. Maybe we're being
minimalist, and
thus modern.
You used to put India's name on them, up to Georgius Sextus. So did |
we, in fact, but we had "Canada" on the other side. CDB |
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John Dean
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 7:14 am
Post subject: Re: Manchester temperature? |
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Ross Howard wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 18 May 2005 12:35:30 +0100, "John Dean"
john-dean@frag.lineone.net> wrought:
NB, I see in the meeja that Glazer and his sons are describing
themselves as "lifelong Man U fans". That idea, knock on the head.
Otherwise when the Glazier offspring turn up to run the show they're
going to find themselves seriously embarrassed in a Press Conference
being asked to show their knowledge of the club. I am a City fan, not
United (not having been to a pro match for 50 years has nothing to do
with this - in Manchester you choose early and stay with your choice)
I am a United fan, but I haven't been to Old Trafford for 35 years.
Yes, it is in your blood in a way. I've never liked the club or any of
its players much since the '68 European Cup -- I'm sorry but Keane is
*not* Crerand, Giggs can't dribble dog drool next to Best (or even
Willie Morgan), and don't even get me started on that posing French
poet -- but I still follow the results of important matches and even
got moist-eyed when they beat Bayern to win the European Cup.
|
You see the advantage of being a City fan? You don't have anything to
get misty-eyed over.
| Quote: |
but even I could answer the kind of stuff that will be used to show
that they'd never heard of Man U until a few years ago - like "What
position did Alex Stepney play?", "Why was the sale of Denis Law so
controversial?" or kiddy stuff like "Which Babes survived Munich?"
Ditto for me, or any other old-time United fan, when it comes to City
trivia. Try me on Tony "Young Slip of a Thing" Book or Mike Doyle's
trademark studs-up approach to ball recovery. Or, come to that,
whether Colin Bell and the Monkees' Peter Tork were ever seen in the
same room together.
|
Ah - Nijinsky. And I managed to forgive Don Readies because I remembered
the Revie Plan. And I had to work out why a German paratrooper was such
a hero to my Dad after he and my Mum had recently spent six years trying
to avoid being killed by Herr Trautmann's fellow countrymen. And WEHT
Malcolm Allison?
--
John Dean
Oxford |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 1:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Manchester temperature? |
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Areff spake thusly:
| Quote: | Tony Cooper wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2005 13:48:42 GMT, the Omrud <usenet.omrud@gmail.com
wrote:
It's been said here that ManU fans are calling him the "Hitler of
Manchester". A very unkind remark about a Jewish businessman.
It is, but I doubt they know he's Jewish. I didn't. It's not
something which would normally be mentioned here. I sometimes
discover that well-know people are Jewish, decades after I first
encountered them in the media. There are undoubtedly many more that
I haven't discovered. It's not normally a subject of discussion, any
more than being a Catholic would be.
I didn't know it either until the media reported the Hitler comments
and brought up the fact that Glazer is Jewish. Had the Hitler
comments not surfaced, the religion would not have been known.
It is the opposite of Godwin's Law.
"Glazer" is a pretty common Ashkenazic Jewish surname here in the US, at
least where such surnames themselves are common (e.g., not in Seattle)
but I wouldn't think of "Malcolm" as being a particularly common
forename among American Jews for whatever generation.
|
It's just occurred to me that Starsky or Hutch was called something
like Paul Michael-Glaser.
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 2:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Manchester temperature? |
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Andrew Gwilliam spake thusly:
| Quote: | On Thu, 19 May 2005 02:00:31 +0100, Don Aitken wrote:
But there was a period, just before the ECB took over, when the
relevant body was the "Test and County Cricket Board", [...]
Ah, wasn't sure about that.
[...] which adhered to the old English tradition that it is unnecessary
to include the name of the country, all such things being English unless
otherwise specified. Cf Football Association, Rugby Union, etc.
Not to mention that the UK must be about the only country in the world not
to put its name on its coins. I wonder why they stopped, I'm sure it used
to be on there ("Rex. Brit.", or suchlike).
No country name on its stamps, either. Maybe we're being minimalist, and
thus modern.
|
Each country must put its name on its postal stamps, but "no name on
the stamps" is a concession given to the UK by the International
Postal Union or some such, in recognition of the fact that we
invented the things.
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 2:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Manchester temperature? |
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Andrew Gwilliam spake thusly:
| Quote: | On Thu, 19 May 2005 00:18:25 +0100, Peter Duncanson wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2005 18:47:47 +0100, Andrew Gwilliam
bottomless_pit@southernskies.co.uk> wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks it economic stupidity to use a business's
assets to fund massive loans to purchase said business, or is my naivety
preventing my becoming a successful multi-millionaire? It certainly seems
like madness in the case of a football club, it's not like they can open
more branches (unless I'm being woefully unimaginative).
Opening more branches is an interesting idea. They could start a "Manchester
United" in each soccer-playing country in the world. This could develop into
the Manchester United International Championship in which only MU teams
play. The Glazers are probably not ready for that sort of investment - they
need income.
Normally I would trot out the platitude that you have to spend money to
make money; but Mr Glazer appears to have a rather different approach (you
have to borrow on the basis of assets you don't possess in order to be able
to buy those assets). The banks are either very smart, or very dumb
(probably both, TBH).
|
But since he is a billionaire in his own right, he presumably has
enough money to pay off the debt. No doubt the banks have factored
this in.
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the |
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Matthew Huntbach
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 2:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Manchester temperature? |
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On Thu, 19 May 2005, CDB wrote:
| Quote: | "Andrew Gwilliam" <bottomless_pit@southernskies.co.uk> wrote in
Not to mention that the UK must be about the only country in the
world not
to put its name on its coins. I wonder why they stopped, I'm sure
it used
to be on there ("Rex. Brit.", or suchlike).
No country name on its stamps, either. Maybe we're being
minimalist, and
thus modern.
|
This convention was established when postage stamps first came
into use - the UK was the first to issue them and therefore,
unlike any other country, was not required to put its name on its
own stamps. I don't think the same convention applies to coins -
I've seen a few coins from other countries that don't have the name.
UK stamps *do* have to have the king's/queen's head on them in the
place of the country name, regular stamps may consist of just this
and the price, but others may have the head as just a small
silhouette in a corner.
The "country name" on UK coins was part of the
| Quote: | You used to put India's name on them, up to Georgius Sextus. So did
we, in fact, but we had "Canada" on the other side. CDB
|
The "country name" was part of the title of the king/queen rather than
there as the country name. The "IND IMP" disappeared in 1948, when India
gained independence, necessitating a slight redesign of the coinage.
The "REX BRIT" actually stood for "Rex Brittanorum" (not quite sure this
is exactly the right Latin) meaning "King of all Britons". For the
first year of the current queen's reign, the title "REG BRIT" occurred
on the coins, but this was withdrawn the next year and has not occurred
on British coins since.
Matthew Huntbach |
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Matthew Huntbach
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 3:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Manchester temperature? |
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On Wed, 18 May 2005, Andrew Gwilliam wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 18 May 2005 13:48:42 GMT, the Omrud wrote:
It is, but I doubt they know he's Jewish. I didn't. It's not
something which would normally be mentioned here. I sometimes
discover that well-know people are Jewish, decades after I first
encountered them in the media. There are undoubtedly many more that
I haven't discovered. It's not normally a subject of discussion, any
more than being a Catholic would be.
I'm reminded about the fuss over the Labour poster showing Michael Howard
and Oliver Letwin as pigs.
|
It hadn't occurred to me that both were Jewish until the fuss was made.
If I had actually been asked "What is the religion of Michael Howard
and Oliver Letwin?", had I thought about it I would have ended up saying
"Oh, yes, they're both Jewish". But it's not something I was consciously
aware of before the fuss, I very much doubt most British people were
consciously aware of it, and I guess that includes those responsible for
the poster. The claim that the poster was deliberately intended as
a piece of anti-semitism was ridiculous, and the main effect of the fuss
was to remind anyone who might have vestigial anti-semitism of a fact
they probably hadn't thought of before. Of course, once it had been
pointed out, the posters took on a more sinister aspect and had to be
withdrawn.
| Quote: | Or, perhaps, the brouhaha over a remark by Ken "I'm an iconoclast so I'm
allowed to be offensive" Livingston to a journalist who happened to be
Jewish.
|
Slightly different circumstances - Livingstone made a remark to the
journalist likening him to a concentration camp guard, the journalist
pointed out that he was Jewish, but Livingstone carried on with the
insult and refused to apologise. Livingstone ought to have backed down
immediately, recognising that likening a Jew to a concentration camp
guard is a much nastier insult than likening anyone else, and what
was excusable before he knew his victim was Jewish was inexcusable
afterwards.
Matthew Huntbach |
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