| Author |
Message |
Per Rønne
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 1:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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Javi <poziNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I think that there also was a plague epidemics in the late seventeenth
century in Denmark), so not so much acquired immunity.
|
The last case of the Plague in Copenhagen happened 1711 where 1/3 of the
population died.
| Quote: | It is therefore not unreasonable that the general ability to withstand
diseases increased a lot, since those it didn't make stronger it killed.
The flaw in that reasoning is that resistance to a disease does not
confer resistance against other non-related diseases.
|
Not necessarily so.
--
Per Erik Rønne
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Wood Avens
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 2:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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On Thu, 26 May 2005 16:56:00 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
<kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
| Quote: | rbaniste1@shaw.ca writes:
On Thu, 26 May 2005 08:52:15 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
I'm intrigued. Just what would you recommend that one (say, me)
look up in a dictionary to find out what word is used in British
English to to mean what Americans typically mean by "sick", but
which will distinguish the condition from that of nausea?
I'm good at using a dictionary to find out "What does this word
mean?" I'm not so good at using it to find "What word means this?"
and even less good at using it to find out "What's the word commonly
used by this group of speakers in this situation?
It's a Good Thing, they say, this feeling "intrigued" and it is even
more a Good Thing, I say, to make public confession of inadequacy.
One should help. Try this: look up SICK; look up NAUSEATED; look up
ILL. Repeat over as many dictionaries as you find necessary to get a
"feel" for the topic. Ensure you have a good mix of American and
English dictionaries (Google on _Dictionaries_ to help you with
selection). Now here is the difficult bit: you have to start
discarding all the examples of usage which do not fit your
conception of the social/educational status of the target user, a
task rendered more difficult by a necessarily hazy concept of the
usual vocabulary and needs (in this case) of an American
fiddle-playing AUE reader.
Okay. So having done this I find that all the dictionaries agree that
"nauseated" cannot be the word, as it does, indeed nausea. "Sick" is
universally defined as meaning both "ill" and "nauseated", some
dictionaries identifying the latter sense as British. Now I know, as
a native speaker, that "sick" doesn't mean "nauseated" in my dialect,
so clearly it might be a term that could fit the bill, but nothing
tells me that this is the case in British dialects, and the fact that
the association of "sick" with "nauseated" is sometimes described as
British leads me to believe that it would be unwise to assume that
this is the correct term. This leaves, of your examples, "ill".
Again, the dictionaries indicate that this *could* be used in British
English to make this distinction, but none of them indicate that it
*is* the term that would be commonly used there, which was the
original question. For that matter, none of the dictionaries seem to
say that in American English, although "ill" is a term that could be
used to make the distinction, "sick" is the one actually used, though
I know this to be the case, at least for my dialect.
|
There's a distinction here (UK) between "I feel sick", which means one
feels nauseated or likely to throw up, "I'm going to be sick", ie
one's actually about to throw up, and "I'm sick", which usually means
simply "I'm unwell". "He's sick" doesn't mean, in BrE, he's
nauseated; it means he's unwell.
However, "he's been sick" can mean either that he's thrown up or that
he's been unwell. It's just one of those things; to be sick can mean
to throw up , but the present tense, "I am sick" doesn't mean I'm
throwing up. That's "I'm being sick."
Look, just don't get ill while you're over here, OK?
--
Katy Jennison
spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ |
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 2:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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Laura F. Spira wrote:
| Quote: | But now I'm wondering what Leftpondians call the paper bags supplied for
air travellers (BrE "sick bags")?
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"Barf bags" informally. I don't know if they have any other name.
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Laura F. Spira
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 2:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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Wood Avens wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 26 May 2005 16:56:00 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
rbaniste1@shaw.ca writes:
On Thu, 26 May 2005 08:52:15 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
I'm intrigued. Just what would you recommend that one (say, me)
look up in a dictionary to find out what word is used in British
English to to mean what Americans typically mean by "sick", but
which will distinguish the condition from that of nausea?
I'm good at using a dictionary to find out "What does this word
mean?" I'm not so good at using it to find "What word means this?"
and even less good at using it to find out "What's the word commonly
used by this group of speakers in this situation?
It's a Good Thing, they say, this feeling "intrigued" and it is even
more a Good Thing, I say, to make public confession of inadequacy.
One should help. Try this: look up SICK; look up NAUSEATED; look up
ILL. Repeat over as many dictionaries as you find necessary to get a
"feel" for the topic. Ensure you have a good mix of American and
English dictionaries (Google on _Dictionaries_ to help you with
selection). Now here is the difficult bit: you have to start
discarding all the examples of usage which do not fit your
conception of the social/educational status of the target user, a
task rendered more difficult by a necessarily hazy concept of the
usual vocabulary and needs (in this case) of an American
fiddle-playing AUE reader.
Okay. So having done this I find that all the dictionaries agree that
"nauseated" cannot be the word, as it does, indeed nausea. "Sick" is
universally defined as meaning both "ill" and "nauseated", some
dictionaries identifying the latter sense as British. Now I know, as
a native speaker, that "sick" doesn't mean "nauseated" in my dialect,
so clearly it might be a term that could fit the bill, but nothing
tells me that this is the case in British dialects, and the fact that
the association of "sick" with "nauseated" is sometimes described as
British leads me to believe that it would be unwise to assume that
this is the correct term. This leaves, of your examples, "ill".
Again, the dictionaries indicate that this *could* be used in British
English to make this distinction, but none of them indicate that it
*is* the term that would be commonly used there, which was the
original question. For that matter, none of the dictionaries seem to
say that in American English, although "ill" is a term that could be
used to make the distinction, "sick" is the one actually used, though
I know this to be the case, at least for my dialect.
There's a distinction here (UK) between "I feel sick", which means one
feels nauseated or likely to throw up, "I'm going to be sick", ie
one's actually about to throw up, and "I'm sick", which usually means
simply "I'm unwell". "He's sick" doesn't mean, in BrE, he's
nauseated; it means he's unwell.
However, "he's been sick" can mean either that he's thrown up or that
he's been unwell. It's just one of those things; to be sick can mean
to throw up , but the present tense, "I am sick" doesn't mean I'm
throwing up. That's "I'm being sick."
Look, just don't get ill while you're over here, OK?
|
Dear me, this is the first aue post I've read for some time and I now
feel slightly queasy...
But now I'm wondering what Leftpondians call the paper bags supplied for
air travellers (BrE "sick bags")?
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email) |
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 5:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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rbaniste1@shaw.ca wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 27 May 2005 12:36:03 +0000 (UTC), Areff <me@privacy.net
wrote:
Laura F. Spira wrote:
But now I'm wondering what Leftpondians call the paper bags supplied for
air travellers (BrE "sick bags")?
"Barf bags" informally. I don't know if they have any other name.
It's a pity the word's already spoken for but the family always called
them vomitoria.
|
Isn't that round where you live? |
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Roland Hutchinson
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 8:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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Areff wrote:
| Quote: | Laura F. Spira wrote:
But now I'm wondering what Leftpondians call the paper bags supplied for
air travellers (BrE "sick bags")?
"Barf bags" informally. I don't know if they have any other name.
|
More formally, I'd call them "airsick bags".
"Sick bags" definitely sounds un-American to my ears.
I'm very happy to say that I've never had to use one for the purpose for
which it was furnished.
--
Roland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food.
NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to
remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. |
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Evan Kirshenbaum
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 9:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
|
|
Areff <me@privacy.net> writes:
| Quote: | Laura F. Spira wrote:
But now I'm wondering what Leftpondians call the paper bags supplied for
air travellers (BrE "sick bags")?
"Barf bags" informally. I don't know if they have any other name.
|
Less informally "airsick bags". I believe that the formal term is
"air sickness bags" or "motion sickness bags".
Here, though, it's parsed as "{air sick[ness]} bags", where "airsick"
is based on "seasick". Just "sick bag" probably wouldn't mean too
much.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |There is something fascinating
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |about science. One gets such
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |wholesale returns of conjecture out
|of such a trifling investment of
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |fact.
(650)857-7572 | Mark Twain
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |
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Guest
|
| Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 9:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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On Fri, 27 May 2005 03:58:46 GMT, arnow@iname.com (Murray Arnow)
wrote:
| Quote: | rbaniste1@shaw.ca wrote:
I did not understand your second sentence, which was a discouraging
start, but quite apart from that would you not say that your
exploration simply confirms my assertion that the "sick" word is as
English as the American "sick" word? "Sick" fits the bill on both
sides of the Atlantic and all this "=BrE ill" is horse-feathers. That,
by the way, was the _original_ question.
Over and out, I hope.
It ain't over yet. A current American slang gives "sick" a meaning of
approbation.
|
IT'S THE METH, THE METH! |
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Guest
|
| Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 9:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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On Fri, 27 May 2005 12:36:03 +0000 (UTC), Areff <me@privacy.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | Laura F. Spira wrote:
But now I'm wondering what Leftpondians call the paper bags supplied for
air travellers (BrE "sick bags")?
"Barf bags" informally. I don't know if they have any other name.
It's a pity the word's already spoken for but the family always called |
them vomitoria. |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 9:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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Laura F. Spira spake thusly:
| Quote: | Wood Avens wrote:
Look, just don't get ill while you're over here, OK?
Dear me, this is the first aue post I've read for some time and I now
feel slightly queasy...
But now I'm wondering what Leftpondians call the paper bags supplied for
air travellers (BrE "sick bags")?
|
Barf bags.
Near enough, "barf" = UK "puke".
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the |
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Roland Hutchinson
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 10:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
|
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Wood Avens wrote:
| Quote: | There's a distinction here (UK) between "I feel sick", which means one
feels nauseated or likely to throw up, "I'm going to be sick", ie
one's actually about to throw up, and "I'm sick", which usually means
simply "I'm unwell". "He's sick" doesn't mean, in BrE, he's
nauseated; it means he's unwell.
However, "he's been sick" can mean either that he's thrown up or that
he's been unwell. It's just one of those things; to be sick can mean
to throw up , but the present tense, "I am sick" doesn't mean I'm
throwing up. That's "I'm being sick."
|
This seem to me to be the definitive explanation I was seeking. Thanks.
The one thing that the OED does add is that "sick" (ill) predates
"sick" (nauseated) by seven or eight centuries. I suppose it might be
reasonable to conjecture that the latter came about, or came to be
widespread, as a euphemism for the V word or something even nastier.
| Quote: | Look, just don't get ill while you're over here, OK?
|
You've got yourself a deal.
--
Roland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food.
NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to
remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 11:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
|
|
On Fri, 27 May 2005 08:01:03 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
<kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Areff <me@privacy.net> writes:
Laura F. Spira wrote:
But now I'm wondering what Leftpondians call the paper bags supplied for
air travellers (BrE "sick bags")?
"Barf bags" informally. I don't know if they have any other name.
Less informally "airsick bags". I believe that the formal term is
"air sickness bags" or "motion sickness bags".
Here, though, it's parsed as "{air sick[ness]} bags", where "airsick"
is based on "seasick". Just "sick bag" probably wouldn't mean too
much.
|
I doubt if any descriptive term is written on one. The airlines
wouldn't like to give people the idea that flying in airplanes can
cause sickness of any sort. If anything is written on the bag, it's
probably something nebulous like "For Your Convenience".
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando FL |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 11:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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Tony Cooper spake thusly:
| Quote: | On Fri, 27 May 2005 08:01:03 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
Areff <me@privacy.net> writes:
Laura F. Spira wrote:
But now I'm wondering what Leftpondians call the paper bags supplied for
air travellers (BrE "sick bags")?
"Barf bags" informally. I don't know if they have any other name.
Less informally "airsick bags". I believe that the formal term is
"air sickness bags" or "motion sickness bags".
Here, though, it's parsed as "{air sick[ness]} bags", where "airsick"
is based on "seasick". Just "sick bag" probably wouldn't mean too
much.
I doubt if any descriptive term is written on one. The airlines
wouldn't like to give people the idea that flying in airplanes can
cause sickness of any sort. If anything is written on the bag, it's
probably something nebulous like "For Your Convenience".
|
I am the type of person who reads the legends printed on barf bags.
One I remember said "For motion discomfort".
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the |
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Guest
|
| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 12:25 am
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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On Fri, 27 May 2005 15:23:19 +0000 (UTC), Areff <me@privacy.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | rbaniste1@shaw.ca wrote:
On Fri, 27 May 2005 12:36:03 +0000 (UTC), Areff <me@privacy.net
wrote:
Laura F. Spira wrote:
But now I'm wondering what Leftpondians call the paper bags supplied for
air travellers (BrE "sick bags")?
"Barf bags" informally. I don't know if they have any other name.
It's a pity the word's already spoken for but the family always called
them vomitoria.
Isn't that round where you live?
Getting rid of stuff is close to victory, semantically speaking, I |
suppose. |
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Paul Wolff
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 1:03 am
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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In message <g2fe91li1omcbf4fl93f5fkiat3oi9svhd@4ax.com>,
rbaniste1@shaw.ca writes
| Quote: | On Fri, 27 May 2005 12:36:03 +0000 (UTC), Areff <me@privacy.net
wrote:
Laura F. Spira wrote:
But now I'm wondering what Leftpondians call the paper bags supplied for
air travellers (BrE "sick bags")?
"Barf bags" informally. I don't know if they have any other name.
It's a pity the word's already spoken for but the family always called
them vomitoria.
|
You have to admit the Romans had a sense of humour.
--
Paul
In bocca al Lupo! |
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