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Per Rønne
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 9:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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Tony Cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | I'd never use "influenza" unless I was talking about an epidemic. I
know that "flu" is a shortening of "influenza", but I define them
differently in my mind. "Flu" is the word for the 3 day thing. It's
a word that describes a condition, and not a diagnoses of a medical
condition. Make sense?
|
Well, in Danish we have one word only: "influenza".
--
Per Erik Rønne
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Per Rønne
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 9:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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Linz <spam@lindsayendell.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | ""Per Rønne"" <spam@husumtoften.invalid> wrote in message
news:1gx4n7n.t5t4xf18psv39N%spam@husumtoften.invalid...
Frances Kemmish <fkemmish@optonline.net> wrote:
As far as I know, the only way to be sure that you've had the flu
is to have tests to identify the virus. Most people don't have
these tests.
It is not /one/ virus but several strains of orthomyxovira that
causes influenza i humans. And let me quote from Encyclopædia
Britannica 2005 on DVD-ROM:
You don't need to. We know. It is possible to test the blood to see
what the virus is. It may be one of the flu viruses, it may not. When
Fran said "have tests to identify the virus" I reckon she meant "have
tests to identify what virus is affecting you". Which may or may not
be a flu virus.
|
Of course the disease may not be the flu - unless a test proves it to be
one of the flu vira. What I was stating was that there are several flu
vira strains and that they mutate all the time.
BTW, don't you say "one virus" and "two vira"?
--
Per Erik Rønne |
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Evan Kirshenbaum
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 9:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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the Omrud <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> writes:
| Quote: | Evan Kirshenbaum spake thusly:
It's somewhat amusing to see it presented as amusing to hear a single
word used for the stomach and both sorts of intestine, while seeing it
perfectly normal to lump the large and small intestines together.
Then again, I had a professor whose "foot" went up to his hip.
Was he a cat? Or perhaps a horse?
|
No. Guyanese. There's a wonderful story about (I presume) him in
John McWhorter's _The Power of Babel_, discussing creole continua:
I will never forget when I boarded an elevator with a Guyanese man
(my dissertation adviser) at a conference and another Guyanese man
jumped in at the last minute. They started out speaking Standard
English, largely in deference to me, but as the elevator went up
and their conversation became gradually warmer and more
spontaneous, they started gliding into increasingly more creole
layers of their speech repertoire. The higher we went, the less
of their conversation I could grasp. I lost the first sentence
above the fifth floor; by the tenth, all I knew was who they were
talking about; by the eighteenth, all I knew was that something
was really funny and that it probably wasn't me. By the
twenty-fifth floor, when we got out, they might as well have been
speaking Turkish. Yet to them, they had never stopped speaking
"English"--they had simply traveled along a continuum of creolized
varieties of it leading away from the lone vanilla variety I grew
up in.
I love the "all I knew was that something was really funny and that it
probably wasn't me."
| Quote: | In American English, "belly" is pretty much restricted to the
outside of the abdomen, especially when large. If flat, this is
likely to be a "stomach" (although the navel is still a "belly
button"). A discomfort in anything between the esophagus and the
rectum is likely to be considered a "stomach ache". "Tummy" works
for both the inside and outside.
In UK English, "belly button" is ever so slightly crude. The more
common term is "tummy button".
|
I've never heard that in the US. "Navel" is formal, and "belly
button" is the everyday term.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Sorry, captain. Convenient
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |technobabble levels are dangerously
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |low.
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
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Per Rønne
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 9:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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Javi <poziNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Is that your conclusion, or is it explicitly stated in any of those
encyclopaedias you mention? The Britannica says nothing about a set of
diseases.
|
It talks about different /strains/, about some influenza types as
"animal diseases" and about the viruses mutating all the times - also
due to humans getting immune.
| Quote: | Furthermore, not only the vira mutate. Their "game" mutate too and
through selection some populations become more immune to certain
diseases than other. Like in hiv - 16% of Scandinavians and Russians are
said to be fully immune and more than 50% partly immune. Due to a
selective pressure during the centuries of the Plague.
What is the relation between HIV and the Plague? The first is caused by
a virus, the second by a bacteria (yersinia pestis). And, supposing that
there is a relation (which I doubt, do you have a reference?), why
should Scandinavians and Russian be more immune to HIV or the Plague
than, let's say, Indians (where the Plague is endemic) or Subsaharians,
where the HIV has developed?
|
Well, I'm no physicians but quite a number of them believe that
Europeans and especially Scandinavians had a small number of people
immune to the Plague - an immunity acquired a long time before the
Plague. The immunity came from earlier diseases and during the Plague
city-people not immune simply died. But better to give a link:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8122-1520635,00.html
--
Per Erik Rønne |
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Per Rønne
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 9:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Plural of "virus" redux |
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Mark Brader <msb@vex.net> wrote:
| Quote: | So, Per, was "vira" from Danish, or was it an attempt at a Latinate
plural?
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In Danish we use "vira" when talking in plural. I have always thought of
it as the Latin plural. Some people will use other plural forms like
"virusser" or just "virus". And let me quote a little from a
Danish-Danish dictionary {Politiken's}:
virus ['vi·rus] subst. -sen el. -set, -ser (el. virus el. vira), -serne
(el. -sene el. viraene)
==
"el." is short for "eller" which means "or".
--
Per Erik Rønne |
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Evan Kirshenbaum
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 9:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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Charles Riggs <chriggs@éircom.net> writes:
| Quote: | On Wed, 25 May 2005 17:56:49 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
A discomfort in anything between the esophagus and the rectum is
likely to be considered a "stomach ache".
All that way down? By whom is this called a stomach ache?
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By pretty much everybody, I'd think. I don't know of anybody who
would, in casual speech, distinguish between a discomfort in the
duodenum and one in the descending colon, and I don't know how it
would be done. Note that I meant "between" in the exclusive sense.
The esophagus isn't, and the rectum isn't, but the alimentary canal
between them is.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |This case--and I must be careful
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |not to fall into Spooner's trap
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |here--concerns a group of warring
|bankers.
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |
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Evan Kirshenbaum
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 9:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer@midway.uchicago.edu> writes:
| Quote: | Apparently the term was first put in print in a technical setting in
Fred Cohen's 1983 "Computer Viruses: Theory and Experiments", although
according to several pages the first actual computer virus ("Elk
Cloner", which attacked the Apple II) was released a couple of years
earlier.
There was also apparently a comic-book usage in 1982...
|
I don't think I'd consider X-Men comics to be a "technical setting".
The word was apparently used in fiction in a vague metaphorical sense
from at least 1972, by the OED quotes. It wasn't applied to something
concrete and real until 1983.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Marge: You liked Rashomon.
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |Homer: That's not how *I* remember
Palo Alto, CA 94304 | it.
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 9:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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Evan Kirshenbaum spake thusly:
| Quote: | the Omrud <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> writes:
In UK English, "belly button" is ever so slightly crude. The more
common term is "tummy button".
I've never heard that in the US. "Navel" is formal, and "belly
button" is the everyday term.
|
She was only an admiral's daughter ...
obAUE: do other (non-UK) Englishes have rude jokes of the form
"She was only a <type of person>'s daughter, but ..."
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the |
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dcw
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 9:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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In article <MPG.1cff932a5550e2cf989a5b@news.ntlworld.com>,
the Omrud <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | In UK English, "belly button" is ever so slightly crude. The more
common term is "tummy button".
|
Is this still true? My grandmother (born about 1875) would have
thought "belly" very rude, but I don't think it is now. The
alliteration of "belly button" is irresistible, and "tummy" is
just childish.
David |
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Evan Kirshenbaum
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 9:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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rbaniste1@shaw.ca writes:
| Quote: | On Wed, 25 May 2005 20:45:56 GMT, Roland Hutchinson
my.spamtrap@verizon.net> wrote:
rbaniste1@shaw.ca wrote:
On Wed, 25 May 2005 19:51:22 +0100, Peter Duncanson
mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
On Wed, 25 May 2005 18:15:56 GMT, Roland Hutchinson
my.spamtrap@verizon.net> wrote:
epidemics, sometimes pandemics, and sometimes just some folks getting
sick (=BrE ill).
"Sick" works very well in BrE.
The belief that the English have only one word for the condition seems
to be deeply seated, in certain American quarters at least.
Sometimes, though, it is best to leave sleepers alone.
Well, then, what word _would_ you use in BrE to mean "sick, but I
don't mean nauseated" (=AmE sick, ill).
Why do you not use a dictionary? The FAQ asks you not to ask silly
questions, you know. Silly pronouncements tend to get stepped on.
There can be no rules about _that_, nor about what to do about
fiddle players who refuse to look things up for themselves. I put
them with the sleepers, myself.
|
I'm intrigued. Just what would you recommend that one (say, me) look
up in a dictionary to find out what word is used in British English to
to mean what Americans typically mean by "sick", but which will
distinguish the condition from that of nausea?
I'm good at using a dictionary to find out "What does this word mean?"
I'm not so good at using it to find "What word means this?" and even
less good at using it to find out "What's the word commonly used by
this group of speakers in this situation?"
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Those who would give up essential
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |Liberty, to purchase a little
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |temporary Safety, deserve neither
|Liberty nor Safety.
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | Benjamin Franklin
(650)857-7572
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |
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dcw
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 9:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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In article <d72a7u$k3p$1@nsnmpen3-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net>,
Javi <poziNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | What is the relation between HIV and the Plague? The first is caused by
a virus, the second by a bacteria (yersinia pestis).
ObAUE: the plural of "virus" is "viruses" or "viri", not "vira".
|
And the singular of "bacteria" is "bacterium".
David |
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Evan Kirshenbaum
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 9:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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Charles Riggs <chriggs@éircom.net> writes:
| Quote: | On Wed, 25 May 2005 16:46:15 GMT, Tony Cooper
tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
I'd never use "influenza" unless I was talking about an epidemic. I
know that "flu" is a shortening of "influenza", but I define them
differently in my mind. "Flu" is the word for the 3 day thing.
It's a word that describes a condition, and not a diagnoses of a
medical condition. Make sense?
I realize this, like all your questions, is a rhetorical one, but
I'll answer it anyway. No, it makes no sense, especially since there
is no such thing as a 3-day flu. You, like your man Per, are again
confusing a cold with the flu.
|
I'm curious about this repeated assertion (by you and others). True,
influenza lasts more than a few days, but so does a cold. It's a
common saying that "With proper medical treatment, you can get rid of
a cold in seven days; left to itself, it will hang on for a week."
One or two or three days of nausea and fever is most probably food
poisoning. A similar stint of a stuffy head is most probably
allergies.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |He seems to be perceptive and
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |effective because he states the
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |obvious to people that don't seem
|to see the obvious.
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |
(650)857-7572 | Tony Cooper
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |
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Wood Avens
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 10:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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On Thu, 26 May 2005 08:17:04 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
<kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Charles Riggs <chriggs@éircom.net> writes:
On Wed, 25 May 2005 17:56:49 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
A discomfort in anything between the esophagus and the rectum is
likely to be considered a "stomach ache".
All that way down? By whom is this called a stomach ache?
By pretty much everybody, I'd think. I don't know of anybody who
would, in casual speech, distinguish between a discomfort in the
duodenum and one in the descending colon, and I don't know how it
would be done. Note that I meant "between" in the exclusive sense.
The esophagus isn't, and the rectum isn't, but the alimentary canal
between them is.
|
In casual speech I make a distinction between stomach-ache and
gut-ache. I don't know whether that's widespread or just my family,
though.
--
Katy Jennison
spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ |
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Evan Kirshenbaum
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 10:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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Areff <me@privacy.net> writes:
| Quote: | Oliver Cromm wrote:
And yes, it is fairly normal in German to distinguish that, and use
"belly ache" if you're not sure about the source.
Interesting. I think of "belly" as being almost a
quasi-baby-talk/infantile word for generalized "stomach" in the
loose nonclinical sense. Like, you'd speak of a "belly ache" with a
very young child, maybe,
|
I think that for me "belly ache" has been completely skunked by it's
metaphorical extention to "complain excessivly", which MWCD11 dates to
1881. (The OED defines this sense as "To complain querulously or
unreasonably; to whine, grizzle", which at least gives me an anchor
for "grizzle".) If somebody says "I have a belly ache", I'd probably
assume that they meant that they had a gripe unless it was obvious
that they were describing their health.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |"The Dynamics of Interbeing and
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |Monological Imperatives in 'Dick
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |and Jane' : A Study in Psychic
|Transrelational Modes."
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | Calvin
(650)857-7572
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |
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Wood Avens
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 10:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Metric Iron-Age shoe |
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On Thu, 26 May 05 15:46:53 GMT, D.C.Wood@ukc.ac.uk (dcw) wrote:
| Quote: | In article <MPG.1cff932a5550e2cf989a5b@news.ntlworld.com>,
the Omrud <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> wrote:
In UK English, "belly button" is ever so slightly crude. The more
common term is "tummy button".
Is this still true? My grandmother (born about 1875) would have
thought "belly" very rude, but I don't think it is now. The
alliteration of "belly button" is irresistible, and "tummy" is
just childish.
|
Still true in most of the circles I frequent, and above the age of 40
or so. Belly tends to be reserved for composites like belly-dancing
and beer-belly. I'm not quite as old as your grandmother, but belly
on its own ... well, I wouldn't use it to people I didn't know. I
probably wouldn't use it at all - it's just not part of my normal
vocabulary.
--
Katy Jennison
spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ |
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