| Author |
Message |
Robin Bignall
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:15 am
Post subject: Re: Western stars |
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On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:37:48 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
<mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Rodney wrote:
Interesting, these ramifications of aircraft bloodlines. The
Mustang
was, I understand, originally an RAF specification, but it's still
the Spitfire which excites the British imagination -- elegance and
Battle of Britain associations, I suppose.
(Jan will be along to tell us that both were originally developed
by
DAF in 1922.)
I was investigating the originations of a Australian War Savings
Stamp last year with what looked like Spitfire image on it, however
it had a machine gun turret behind the cockpit.
It turned out to be a "Boulton Paul Defiant"
So another Spitfire bloodline perhaps.
Typically of the industry, Boulton Paul started as a furniture
company: of course these had the joinery skills needed to build the
aircraft of the period. They are now a furniture company again.
Not sure about any Spitfire connection: I know next to nothing about
the subject. I wonder if it's just that British designers at the time
liked that lean kind of shape, as against the rather chunky forms
found in some American machines.
|
http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~wingman/
has some nice photos of WWII aircraft. The Spitfire was developed
from a Schneider Trophy winning plane of 1931. From a distance, the
Hurricane and the Spitfire look quite similar.
--
wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall
Hertfordshire, England |
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Rodney
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 7:14 am
Post subject: Re: Western stars |
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A great link. Thank you.
| http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~wingman/
|
| has some nice photos of WWII aircraft. The Spitfire was developed
| from a Schneider Trophy winning plane of 1931. From a distance, the
| Hurricane and the Spitfire look quite similar. |
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Thomas W Ping
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 12:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Western stars |
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On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:37:48 +0100, Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | Rodney wrote:
Not sure about any Spitfire connection: I know next to nothing about
the subject. I wonder if it's just that British designers at the time
liked that lean kind of shape, as against the rather chunky forms
found in some American machines.
|
Part of that was about engine choices. The US used a lot of radial-engine
fighters (P-47 Thunderbolt/Jug and most of the Navy and Marine craft), and
that necessitated a blunt nose and a front fuselage with an accomodating
cross-section. While that didn't define the entire airframe, it did mean
that those craft didn't have the sleeker appearance of the planes with the
longer, narrower inline engines, in terms of fuselage lines. The Soviets
did sleek quite well with the inline-engined Yaks and Migs of the day, and
except for the belly radiator on the P-51 Mustang, it was pretty slick as
well. (They're still racing Mustangs, today.)
The ellipical wing plan of the Spitfire is much loved for its eye appeal.
As for some of its contemporaries with similar inline engine
configurations:
Yak-3 (USSR)
http://www.kiwiaircraftimages.com/images/main/98_wanaka/WANYAK3G.JPG
MiG-3 (USSR)
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/white36.jpg
P-51 (early razorback) USA
http://www.mustangsmustangs.net/p-51/p51pics/military/earlyyears/6.jpg
Spitfire Mk.I
http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~wingman/pics/p7350side800.jpg
When the Brits used radial engines, the result was pretty much like
everyone else's radial powered craft:
http://freespace.virgin.net/john.dell/Skua3.JPG
--
Thomas Winston Ping |
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J. J. Lodder
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 1:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Western stars |
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Robin Bignall <docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:37:48 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Rodney wrote:
Interesting, these ramifications of aircraft bloodlines. The
Mustang
was, I understand, originally an RAF specification, but it's still
the Spitfire which excites the British imagination -- elegance and
Battle of Britain associations, I suppose.
(Jan will be along to tell us that both were originally developed
by
DAF in 1922.)
I was investigating the originations of a Australian War Savings
Stamp last year with what looked like Spitfire image on it, however
it had a machine gun turret behind the cockpit.
It turned out to be a "Boulton Paul Defiant"
So another Spitfire bloodline perhaps.
Typically of the industry, Boulton Paul started as a furniture
company: of course these had the joinery skills needed to build the
aircraft of the period. They are now a furniture company again.
Not sure about any Spitfire connection: I know next to nothing about
the subject. I wonder if it's just that British designers at the time
liked that lean kind of shape, as against the rather chunky forms
found in some American machines.
http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~wingman/
has some nice photos of WWII aircraft. The Spitfire was developed
from a Schneider Trophy winning plane of 1931. From a distance, the
Hurricane and the Spitfire look quite similar.
|
From aside perhaps.
It is the top view that is so very 'Spitfire'.
It's hard to mistake for any other plane.
The Huricane is ugly, in comparison.
Jan |
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Rodney
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Western stars |
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"Ugly" is such a negative word.
I would have much preferred it, had you used "less handsome"
| The Huricane is ugly, in comparison. |
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J. J. Lodder
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 7:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Western stars |
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Rodney <rodney@touch88gum.com.au> wrote:
| Quote: | "Ugly" is such a negative word.
I would have much preferred it, had you used "less handsome"
| The Huricane is ugly, in comparison.
|
Next time perhaps.
But Mike told me to tell you it really is a design by DAF,
so it must be ugly, this time,
Jan
BTW, found a picture of the Fokker G-1 going down (May 1940)
<http://gais.demon.nl/Aircraft/Aircraft026/3.jpg>
They did put up a fight against the Luftwaffe,
but they were greatly outnumbered by the Messerschmitt 109-s,
and didn't stand much of a chance. |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Western stars |
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|
J. J. Lodder wrote:
[...]
That's awful, Jan. I can never get used to pictures like that.
| Quote: |
They did put up a fight against the Luftwaffe,
but they were greatly outnumbered by the Messerschmitt 109-s,
and didn't stand much of a chance.
|
--
Mike. |
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Frances Kemmish
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Western stars |
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Mike Lyle wrote:
My father-in-law once sent us Christmas card with a picture of a plane
being shot down. I know he always buys his cards at the RAF museum, but
I would have thought they had something a little more festive.
Fran |
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Evan Kirshenbaum
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Western stars |
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Ross Howard <gguiri@yahoo.com> writes:
| Quote: | On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:19:14 +0100, "John Dean"
john-dean@frag.lineone.net> wrought:
masahiko wrote:
"Adrian Bailey" <dadge@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:X2Jbe.62$nX3.47@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
These, maybe?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:USAF_roundel.png
Adrian
Why are they called " Western "?
Because it was perceived that people in the West portrayed stars
differently from the way they were portrayed in the East?
Because they look like sheriff's badges?
|
If you do a Google image search for "sheriff badge" (no quotes), it
turns out that about half of the stars are six-pointed, with more than
a few seven-pointed stars. I think I'd go so far as to say that the
canonical sheriff's badge (for me) has six points.
Looking at my county sheriff's web site
http://www.sccgov.org/site/0,4760,sid=12655,00.html
it would appear that their badges have seven points. Those of the
Cook County Sheriff's Police (Chicago, where I grew up) appear to have
six.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Other computer companies have spent
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |15 years working on fault-tolerant
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |computers. Microsoft has spent
|its time more fruitfully, working
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |on fault-tolerant *users*.
(650)857-7572
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |
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Thomas W Ping
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 10:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Western stars |
|
|
On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:02:37 +0100, Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | J. J. Lodder wrote:
[...]
BTW, found a picture of the Fokker G-1 going down (May 1940)
http://gais.demon.nl/Aircraft/Aircraft026/3.jpg
That's awful, Jan. I can never get used to pictures like that.
They did put up a fight against the Luftwaffe,
but they were greatly outnumbered by the Messerschmitt 109-s,
and didn't stand much of a chance.
|
On a brighter note, look at some of the damage some craft *did*
return with.
http://blinkynet.net/wwii/cameback1.html
--
Thomas Winston Ping |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 10:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Western stars |
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|
Thomas W Ping wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:02:37 +0100, Mike Lyle wrote:
J. J. Lodder wrote:
[...]
BTW, found a picture of the Fokker G-1 going down (May 1940)
http://gais.demon.nl/Aircraft/Aircraft026/3.jpg
That's awful, Jan. I can never get used to pictures like that.
They did put up a fight against the Luftwaffe,
but they were greatly outnumbered by the Messerschmitt 109-s,
and didn't stand much of a chance.
On a brighter note, look at some of the damage some craft *did*
return with.
http://blinkynet.net/wwii/cameback1.html
|
That's Wellingtonesque! Were they, too, geodetic in construction?
(Engineers may smile patronisingly: I'm sure I deserve it for even
asking.)
Jan may be able to confirm the long-whispered rumour that Barnes
Wallis was really a Netherlander.
--
Mike. |
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Thomas W Ping
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:25 am
Post subject: Re: Western stars |
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On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:59:39 +0100, Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | Thomas W Ping wrote:
On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:02:37 +0100, Mike Lyle wrote:
J. J. Lodder wrote:
[...]
BTW, found a picture of the Fokker G-1 going down (May 1940)
http://gais.demon.nl/Aircraft/Aircraft026/3.jpg
That's awful, Jan. I can never get used to pictures like that.
They did put up a fight against the Luftwaffe,
but they were greatly outnumbered by the Messerschmitt 109-s,
and didn't stand much of a chance.
On a brighter note, look at some of the damage some craft *did*
return with.
http://blinkynet.net/wwii/cameback1.html
That's Wellingtonesque! Were they, too, geodetic in construction?
|
Those B-17s? No; you can see the parallel fuselage stringers in
the photo on the left.
If you didn't catch the "More" link, click it: now *there's* a control
problem for the trip home...
--
Thomas Winston Ping |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:19 am
Post subject: Re: Western stars |
|
|
Thomas W Ping wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:59:39 +0100, Mike Lyle wrote:
Thomas W Ping wrote:
On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:02:37 +0100, Mike Lyle wrote:
J. J. Lodder wrote:
[...]
BTW, found a picture of the Fokker G-1 going down (May 1940)
http://gais.demon.nl/Aircraft/Aircraft026/3.jpg
That's awful, Jan. I can never get used to pictures like that.
They did put up a fight against the Luftwaffe,
but they were greatly outnumbered by the Messerschmitt 109-s,
and didn't stand much of a chance.
On a brighter note, look at some of the damage some craft *did*
return with.
http://blinkynet.net/wwii/cameback1.html
That's Wellingtonesque! Were they, too, geodetic in construction?
Those B-17s? No; you can see the parallel fuselage stringers in
the photo on the left.
|
I'm sort-of relieved: they were what impelled me to give the
engineers permission to patronise, but I don't know enough about it
to have been confident.
| Quote: |
If you didn't catch the "More" link, click it: now *there's* a
control
problem for the trip home...
|
I suppose the dog must have been driving.
--
Mike. |
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Thomas W Ping
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:54 am
Post subject: Re: Western stars |
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On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:19:37 +0100, Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | I suppose the dog must have been driving.
|
Nah. For obvious reasons, they preferred the Mitsubishi Ka-9.
--
Thomas Winston Ping |
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highstep
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Western stars |
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On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 22:50:18 +0200, J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>
wrote:
| Quote: |
And that both were first shown in the same year (my translation).
I said 'first showed' for I referred to first appearance at an airshow.
(Paris 1936, where it created a sensation)
You dislike the usage?
Jan
|
Intensely I'm afraid.
--
Highstep
Time, Gentlemen, please |
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