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Nick Wagg
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:04 pm
Post subject: Newbie posting - "oont" |
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I grew up in North Staffs, where there are many wondeful dialect
words, one of which is "oont" or "woont", meaning "mole", i.e the
small burrowing furry animal. I understand that this word is also
known in Gloucestershire.
Can anyone suggest the etymology of this word. I presume it has
a Celtic or Saxon root, given that the two places where it is still
used are so far apart. Any ideas?
Nick.
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Phil C.
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Newbie posting - "oont" |
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On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:04:01 +0100, "Nick Wagg" <naw@transcendata.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | I grew up in North Staffs, where there are many wondeful dialect
words, one of which is "oont" or "woont", meaning "mole", i.e the
small burrowing furry animal. I understand that this word is also
known in Gloucestershire.
Can anyone suggest the etymology of this word. I presume it has
a Celtic or Saxon root, given that the two places where it is still
used are so far apart. Any ideas?
|
Not much help but a quick (UK) Google on "dialect" and "mole" suggests
other similar versions - "unty tump" for a mole hill in Radnorshire
and "uhmtie-tumps" in Norfolk. A "want-catcher/cont catcher" for a
mole catcher in Wilts. "Want" for a mole in both Devon and
Durham/Tyneside. There are probably more. There must be an OED entry
if anyone can find it. "Mole" seems to be from Middle Low German via
Middle Dutch (COD)
My favourite is the Wilts "cont". It's very similar to the word that I
use for moles when they dig up the garden. I saw in a recent TV
documentary that there are no moles in Ireland - sea levels rose
before they could spread. Do they check for mole smugglers?
--
Phil C. |
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Giles Todd
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:29 am
Post subject: Re: Newbie posting - "oont" |
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On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:59:05 +0100, Phil C.
<philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Not much help but a quick (UK) Google on "dialect" and "mole" suggests
other similar versions - "unty tump" for a mole hill in Radnorshire
and "uhmtie-tumps" in Norfolk. A "want-catcher/cont catcher" for a
mole catcher in Wilts. "Want" for a mole in both Devon and
Durham/Tyneside. There are probably more. There must be an OED entry
if anyone can find it. "Mole" seems to be from Middle Low German via
Middle Dutch (COD)
|
Ta-daa (under 'want,n.1'):
Forms: 1 wand, wond; 4–6 wonte, 7 wounte, 5– wont; 6 wante, (vant),
6– want; 9 dial. waunt, wunt, woont, (h)unt, (h)oont, etc. (see Eng.
Dial. Dict.). [OE. wand, wœnd = Sw. dial. vand (cited by Aasen),
Norw. vand, vaand, vond, vønd, mole, also shrew (also in comb.
moldvond ‘earth-mole’, in contradistinction to vatsvond water-rat,
and in vandskjer shrew, synonymous with musskjer, where the first
element is mus mouse). The word is possibly a shortened form of the
synonymous compound OE. wandeweorpe, MLG. wandworp, windeworp,
wannewörpe, mod.LG. winneworp (Doornkaat Koolman), in which the
second element (f. Teut. *werp- to throw) corresponds to that of
mouldwarp. The root seems clearly to be the Teut. *wend-: *wand- to
turn (see wind, wend vbs.); prob. the word has reference to the
winding passages made by the animal.
The word is found in the 8th c. glossaries, but does not again
appear till near the end of the 14th c. All the ME. and mod. Eng.
forms agree in the unexplained substitution of t for the final d of
the OE. form. The word is unknown to the dialects of the northern and
north-east midland counties, but is elsewhere in common use.]
HTH, SQUEAK
Giles
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Nick Wagg
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 3:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Newbie posting - "oont" |
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"Giles Todd" <g@prullenbak.todd.nu> wrote in message
news:6uc861h1ok7t4m9liak62i4s5fqfllthsh@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:59:05 +0100, Phil C.
philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net> wrote:
Not much help but a quick (UK) Google on "dialect" and "mole" suggests
other similar versions - "unty tump" for a mole hill in Radnorshire
and "uhmtie-tumps" in Norfolk. A "want-catcher/cont catcher" for a
mole catcher in Wilts. "Want" for a mole in both Devon and
Durham/Tyneside. There are probably more. There must be an OED entry
if anyone can find it. "Mole" seems to be from Middle Low German via
Middle Dutch (COD)
Ta-daa (under 'want,n.1'):
Forms: 1 wand, wond; 4-6 wonte, 7 wounte, 5- wont; 6 wante, (vant),
6- want; 9 dial. waunt, wunt, woont, (h)unt, (h)oont, etc. (see Eng.
Dial. Dict.). [OE. wand, wond = Sw. dial. vand (cited by Aasen),
Norw. vand, vaand, vond, vønd, mole, also shrew (also in comb.
moldvond 'earth-mole', in contradistinction to vatsvond water-rat,
and in vandskjer shrew, synonymous with musskjer, where the first
element is mus mouse). The word is possibly a shortened form of the
synonymous compound OE. wandeweorpe, MLG. wandworp, windeworp,
wannewörpe, mod.LG. winneworp (Doornkaat Koolman), in which the
second element (f. Teut. *werp- to throw) corresponds to that of
mouldwarp. The root seems clearly to be the Teut. *wend-: *wand- to
turn (see wind, wend vbs.); prob. the word has reference to the
winding passages made by the animal.
The word is found in the 8th c. glossaries, but does not again
appear till near the end of the 14th c. All the ME. and mod. Eng.
forms agree in the unexplained substitution of t for the final d of
the OE. form. The word is unknown to the dialects of the northern and
north-east midland counties, but is elsewhere in common use.]
|
Giles, many thanks, although I know for sure that it is still in use
in North Staffs and Derbyshire, which are in the North Midlands.
So, it probably has a Viking origin then. Strange that I haven't
heard it used here in East Anglia.
Nick. |
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Phil C.
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Newbie posting - "oont" |
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On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:38:35 +0100, "Nick Wagg" <naw@transcendata.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | "Giles Todd" <g@prullenbak.todd.nu> wrote in message
news:6uc861h1ok7t4m9liak62i4s5fqfllthsh@4ax.com...
On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:59:05 +0100, Phil C.
philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net> wrote:
Not much help but a quick (UK) Google on "dialect" and "mole" suggests
other similar versions - "unty tump" for a mole hill in Radnorshire
and "uhmtie-tumps" in Norfolk. A "want-catcher/cont catcher" for a
mole catcher in Wilts. "Want" for a mole in both Devon and
Durham/Tyneside. There are probably more. There must be an OED entry
if anyone can find it. "Mole" seems to be from Middle Low German via
Middle Dutch (COD)
Ta-daa (under 'want,n.1'):
Forms: 1 wand, wond; 4-6 wonte, 7 wounte, 5- wont; 6 wante, (vant),
6- want; 9 dial. waunt, wunt, woont, (h)unt, (h)oont, etc. (see Eng.
Dial. Dict.). [OE. wand, wond = Sw. dial. vand (cited by Aasen),
Norw. vand, vaand, vond, vønd, mole, also shrew (also in comb.
moldvond 'earth-mole', in contradistinction to vatsvond water-rat,
and in vandskjer shrew, synonymous with musskjer, where the first
element is mus mouse). The word is possibly a shortened form of the
synonymous compound OE. wandeweorpe, MLG. wandworp, windeworp,
wannewörpe, mod.LG. winneworp (Doornkaat Koolman), in which the
second element (f. Teut. *werp- to throw) corresponds to that of
mouldwarp. The root seems clearly to be the Teut. *wend-: *wand- to
turn (see wind, wend vbs.); prob. the word has reference to the
winding passages made by the animal.
The word is found in the 8th c. glossaries, but does not again
appear till near the end of the 14th c. All the ME. and mod. Eng.
forms agree in the unexplained substitution of t for the final d of
the OE. form. The word is unknown to the dialects of the northern and
north-east midland counties, but is elsewhere in common use.]
Giles, many thanks, although I know for sure that it is still in use
in North Staffs and Derbyshire, which are in the North Midlands.
So, it probably has a Viking origin then. Strange that I haven't
heard it used here in East Anglia.
|
Old English rather than Viking - especially if it's in C8th
glossaries. Vikings didn't even start raiding England until very late
C8th. I've never heard it used in Lincs - perhaps that's what they
mean by north-east midlands?
It occurred to me to wonder whether Mow Cop (previously Mole Cop) had
anything to do with moles but it seems not e.g -
<http://mowcop.com/htm/name.htm>
--
Phil C. |
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Nick Wagg
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Newbie posting - "oont" |
|
|
"Phil C." <philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net> wrote in message
news:amk961l8uvndum7hl0re7p5lc4028jdlhb@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 10:38:35 +0100, "Nick Wagg" <naw@transcendata.com
wrote:
"Giles Todd" <g@prullenbak.todd.nu> wrote in message
news:6uc861h1ok7t4m9liak62i4s5fqfllthsh@4ax.com...
On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:59:05 +0100, Phil C.
philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net> wrote:
Not much help but a quick (UK) Google on "dialect" and "mole"
suggests
other similar versions - "unty tump" for a mole hill in Radnorshire
and "uhmtie-tumps" in Norfolk. A "want-catcher/cont catcher" for a
mole catcher in Wilts. "Want" for a mole in both Devon and
Durham/Tyneside. There are probably more. There must be an OED entry
if anyone can find it. "Mole" seems to be from Middle Low German via
Middle Dutch (COD)
Ta-daa (under 'want,n.1'):
Forms: 1 wand, wond; 4-6 wonte, 7 wounte, 5- wont; 6 wante, (vant),
6- want; 9 dial. waunt, wunt, woont, (h)unt, (h)oont, etc. (see Eng.
Dial. Dict.). [OE. wand, wond = Sw. dial. vand (cited by Aasen),
Norw. vand, vaand, vond, vønd, mole, also shrew (also in comb.
moldvond 'earth-mole', in contradistinction to vatsvond water-rat,
and in vandskjer shrew, synonymous with musskjer, where the first
element is mus mouse). The word is possibly a shortened form of the
synonymous compound OE. wandeweorpe, MLG. wandworp, windeworp,
wannewörpe, mod.LG. winneworp (Doornkaat Koolman), in which the
second element (f. Teut. *werp- to throw) corresponds to that of
mouldwarp. The root seems clearly to be the Teut. *wend-: *wand- to
turn (see wind, wend vbs.); prob. the word has reference to the
winding passages made by the animal.
The word is found in the 8th c. glossaries, but does not again
appear till near the end of the 14th c. All the ME. and mod. Eng.
forms agree in the unexplained substitution of t for the final d of
the OE. form. The word is unknown to the dialects of the northern and
north-east midland counties, but is elsewhere in common use.]
Giles, many thanks, although I know for sure that it is still in use
in North Staffs and Derbyshire, which are in the North Midlands.
So, it probably has a Viking origin then. Strange that I haven't
heard it used here in East Anglia.
Old English rather than Viking - especially if it's in C8th
glossaries. Vikings didn't even start raiding England until very late
C8th. I've never heard it used in Lincs - perhaps that's what they
mean by north-east midlands?
It occurred to me to wonder whether Mow Cop (previously Mole Cop) had
anything to do with moles but it seems not e.g -
http://mowcop.com/htm/name.htm
|
Ah, yes. The Potteries' Mountain.
Being a one-time local, I pronounce it as in "cow" too.
Moel is a Welsh word meaning hill, which might tie in
with Mole Cop. |
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