| Author |
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Janet Puistonen
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:21 am
Post subject: Re: Even Chinese staying away from Engineering |
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me@privacy.net wrote:
| Quote: | Anyone who has ever known anyone with the real engineering
mind at all well can recognize it in a flash.
Can you please explain?
I'm curious
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The best way I can describe it is to say there's a certain practical,
problem-solving ability and attack-- the ability to "work the problem" taken
to a high level. Remember the scene in Apollo 13 in which they bring in a
pile of stuff, dump it on the table, and say something to the effect of
"Gentlemen, this is what they have to work with. This is the problem they
face. Find a solution." And lo and behold, they do. That's the engineer at
work <G> |
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octogenarian
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:27 am
Post subject: Re: Even Chinese staying away from Engineering |
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Did you skip the opening paragraph?
"... He'd learn C++ and Java languages while earning a computer science
degree at Stanford
University ..."
His major was Computer Science and nothing known as "programming."
You are a funny guy to label Physics as "real" and "Computer Science"
as otherwise. Curious to leant what would you call CS? Psuedo Science?
Weird Science? Applied Science? Hope to did not imply "false" science.
Good buy Janet. Go back to your knitting.. |
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Janet Puistonen
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:54 am
Post subject: Re: Even Chinese staying away from Engineering |
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octogenarian wrote:
| Quote: | Did you skip the opening paragraph?
"... He'd learn C++ and Java languages while earning a computer
science degree at Stanford
University ..."
His major was Computer Science and nothing known as "programming."
You are a funny guy to label Physics as "real" and "Computer Science"
as otherwise. Curious to leant what would you call CS? Psuedo Science?
Weird Science? Applied Science? Hope to did not imply "false" science.
Good buy Janet. Go back to your knitting..
|
Sorry, I don't know how to knit.
Frankly, I find your post too disjointed to understand what exactly you are
driving at, although I gather that you think that computer programming is
both "science" and "engineering." Fine, to each his own. There's no need to
be rude. |
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octogenarian
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:03 am
Post subject: Re: Even Chinese staying away from Engineering |
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You left out "art" along with "science" & "engineering". If you must,
Bill Gates, the Harvard drop out, was a programmer. So was Paul Allen
from MIT. Both got microsoft started writing strings of codes that
formed BASIC.
So, Lady, don't knock programmers. |
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Hank Murphy
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Even Chinese staying away from Engineering |
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Janet, I think the distinction between CS and other engineering fields has
changed dramatically since we were in college.
Most engineering disciplines today have a strong software component.
Electronic engineers essentially write software to design new chips.
Mechanical engineering has increasingly become the manipulation of a design
in Autocad. Petroleum engineering - the exploration part, anyway - relies
on arcane software processing to pick the spot for the next well. Today's
engineering graduates have a lot more in common with CS graduates than they
did a generation ago.
Your point about the engineering mind is certainly valid. It's just that
new engineering minds also think like computer scientists. You also might
find it interesting to ask these engineering minds how much of their work is
software...I think you'll find it varies inversely with age.
I'd also suggest that your experience with programmers may not reflect real
computer science thinking. Many "programmers" are stuck in a procedural way
of thinking - good CS grads can move between this and abstract thinking as
appropriate. [Speaking from personal experience, "system software
companies" are not always the apex of CS thought. But I don't want to name
names, and you probably do not either.  ) ]
"Software engineer" is a legitimate job title. How often the people
carrying that title are actually software engineers is a valid question, but
another discussion.
Having said that...I think the, er, journalism engineering in the article
could have been more carefully thought out.
Enough.
Hank Murphy
speaking only for myself |
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Janet Puistonen
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Even Chinese staying away from Engineering |
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octogenarian wrote:
| Quote: | You left out "art" along with "science" & "engineering". If you must,
Bill Gates, the Harvard drop out, was a programmer. So was Paul Allen
from MIT. Both got microsoft started writing strings of codes that
formed BASIC.
So, Lady, don't knock programmers.
|
Is that what all this ire is about? I wasn't knocking programmers. I admire
programmers. I like programmers. Jeesh. |
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Janet Puistonen
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Even Chinese staying away from Engineering |
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Hank Murphy wrote:
| Quote: | Janet, I think the distinction between CS and other engineering
fields has changed dramatically since we were in college.
Most engineering disciplines today have a strong software component.
Electronic engineers essentially write software to design new chips.
Mechanical engineering has increasingly become the manipulation of a
design in Autocad. Petroleum engineering - the exploration part,
anyway - relies on arcane software processing to pick the spot for
the next well. Today's engineering graduates have a lot more in
common with CS graduates than they did a generation ago.
|
I'm sure that's true.
| Quote: | Your point about the engineering mind is certainly valid. It's just
that new engineering minds also think like computer scientists. You
also might find it interesting to ask these engineering minds how
much of their work is software...I think you'll find it varies
inversely with age.
|
That's probably also true.
| Quote: | I'd also suggest that your experience with programmers may not
reflect real computer science thinking. Many "programmers" are stuck
in a procedural way of thinking - good CS grads can move between this
and abstract thinking as appropriate. [Speaking from personal
experience, "system software companies" are not always the apex of CS
thought. But I don't want to name names, and you probably do not
either. ) ]
|
Indeed.
| Quote: | "Software engineer" is a legitimate job title. How often the people
carrying that title are actually software engineers is a valid
question, but another discussion.
Having said that...I think the, er, journalism engineering in the
article could have been more carefully thought out.
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And that was in fact my entire point in the first place. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Even Chinese staying away from Engineering |
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| Quote: | The best way I can describe it is to say there's a certain practical,
problem-solving ability and attack-- the ability to "work the problem" taken
to a high level. Remember the scene in Apollo 13 in which they bring in a
pile of stuff, dump it on the table, and say something to the effect of
"Gentlemen, this is what they have to work with. This is the problem they
face. Find a solution." And lo and behold, they do. That's the engineer at
work <G
|
Yes I do remember that movie and scene!
So you are saying that engineers approach a problem in
a certain "way".... that other people do not?
If yes... that's fascinating. Can you maybe give me
some insight on how they approach it? |
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octogenarian
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Even Chinese staying away from Engineering |
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Gee,
So, an engineer is merely a problem solver? My plumber certainly can
solve all my water delivery problems efficiently, much better than most
of my PhD, engineer and scientist friends.
How about stick voicing your hubris in the alt.soc.bestmoviequotes
groups? Meanwhile, read up on this from your peers:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Movies/06/22/film.moviequotes.ap/index.html?section=cnn_latest |
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Janet Puistonen
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:26 am
Post subject: Re: Even Chinese staying away from Engineering |
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octogenarian wrote:
| Quote: | Gee,
So, an engineer is merely a problem solver? My plumber certainly can
solve all my water delivery problems efficiently, much better than
most
of my PhD, engineer and scientist friends.
How about stick voicing your hubris in the alt.soc.bestmoviequotes
groups? Meanwhile, read up on this from your peers:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Movies/06/22/film.moviequotes.ap/index.html? |
section=cnn_latest
In your particular case, I'd go for #10, the Travis Bickle quotation: "Are
you talking to me?"
I've had enough of your pathetic sexist putdowns, your misplaced ire, and
your disjointed posts. (Octogenarian indeed. One would have thought that 8
decades was sufficient time to grow up.)
--
Janet
Dear Artemesia! Poetry's a Snare:/Bedlam has many Mansions:have a
care:/ Your Muse diverts you, makes the Reader sad:/ You think your
self inspir'd; He thinks you mad. |
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octogenarian
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:11 am
Post subject: Re: Even Chinese staying away from Engineering |
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| #29, You can't handle the truth! from A FEW GOOD MEN, 1992 |
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alin
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:11 am
Post subject: Re: Even Chinese staying away from Engineering |
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Janet Puistonen wrote:
| Quote: | octogenarian wrote:
You left out "art" along with "science" & "engineering". If you must,
Bill Gates, the Harvard drop out, was a programmer. So was Paul Allen
from MIT. Both got microsoft started writing strings of codes that
formed BASIC.
So, Lady, don't knock programmers.
Is that what all this ire is about? I wasn't knocking programmers. I admire
programmers. I like programmers. Jeesh.
|
Computing Science: The study of the use and sometimes construction of
digital COMPUTERS. (Analogue computers are generally excluded.) It is
a fashionable, intersting, difficult and PERHAPS useful activity.
Unfortunately, in spite of appearing to be a mathematical or physical
science, it has so far a pitiably small body of generally accepted
fundamental laws or principles which are likely to remain valid even for
the next 20 years, and consists instead almost entirely of ephemeral
"state of the art" information.
Christopher Strachey
the Fontana Dictionary of Modern Thought, 1977
=========================================================================
Above appeared in the journal of "Computing Reviews" April of 1984.
Another 21 years had past, and the so called Computer Science remains a
bundle of random, unstructured facts and information.
=========================================================================
Engineering is "only" applied physics. Like someone has said earlier,
about engineers --
| Quote: | they bring in a pile of stuff, dump it on the table,
and say something to the effect of
"Gentlemen, this is what they have to work with.
This is the problem they face. Find a solution."
And lo and behold, they do.
|
Aren't they just some outgrown kids playing overweight toys?
The availability of computers changes a lot of things. Electrical
engineers stopped designing circuit boards, they are writing microcodes.
So are a lot of disciplines. During cold war, the Russian built
better war planes. But we built ones with fire control "computers" that
we don't need to dog fights.
Programming is far more interesting profession, at least to me. As long
as you agree with me that people writing RPGII or HTML aren't programmer
-- I am happy to be called a programmer. |
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Steve Blank
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:32 pm
Post subject: Re: financial aid questions |
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On 9/4 anonymous wrote:
| Quote: | Are financial aid questions allowed on this NG? Any expertise here on
specific questions, e.g. role of retirement assets in computing a
family's ability-to-pay?
Thanks |
Financial aid questions are usually posted to soc.college.financial-aid,
but they can be handled here too.
Steven B. Blank
College Financial Aid Consultants
29 Ives Hill Court
Cheshire, CT 06410
(203)250-7761 |
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Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:11 am
Post subject: Re: STUDY IN CANADA WITHOUT TOEFL / IELTS / GMAT / GRE |
|
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Thank you for advertising . Please register me for he offer & lets know
how to proceed further.
DR.MOKLES,
E-maiL; mbswo@gononet.com |
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Nomen Nescio
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 11:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Bogus Bicycle "Wheel-Locks" Sold To Incoming Stanford St |
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On 15 Oct 2005, Bob wrote:
| Quote: | Personally, I wonder about both the accuracy and the motives of their
posts of any poster as committed to anonymity as this poster apparently
is. A google search reveals that the bulk of their usenet posts appear
in alt.anonymous and alt.hacker groups. Does this person even own a
bike?
|
Yes I own a bike and I am an employee or a student at Stanford. I wish
that I could be safely non-anonymous but there would be certain
retaliation that I do not want to experience. The first thing that people
like Helmke want to know is "Who is the snitch?".
The information that I have provided here is accurate. The only thing
that I would qualify is that after the Daily contacted them, they may have
merely phoned or e-mailed each other instead of physically getting
together and deciding who would say what. |
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