| Author |
Message |
Ken Mahler
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:31 am
Post subject: "Make the nut" |
|
|
OK. There's a fierce battle brewing in my family surrounding the phrase,
"Make the nut". The phrase literally means "covering one's expenses", as in
a business sense, but can be more loosely used to convey the idea of "making
the grade" or "living up to a certain standard".
Anyone out there ever heard of this expression? It is a bit obscure, but I'm
certain it exists. If anyone knows of it, can you point me towards some sort
of documentation?
TIA
Ken
--
Ken Mahler
ACT! Certified Consultant
ACT! Premier Trainer
Cincinnati, OH
ken@OhioACTpros.com
www.OhioACTpros.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Sara Lorimer
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:43 am
Post subject: Re: "Make the nut" |
|
|
Ken Mahler wrote:
| Quote: | OK. There's a fierce battle brewing in my family surrounding the phrase,
"Make the nut". The phrase literally means "covering one's expenses", as in
a business sense, but can be more loosely used to convey the idea of "making
the grade" or "living up to a certain standard".
Anyone out there ever heard of this expression? It is a bit obscure, but I'm
certain it exists. If anyone knows of it, can you point me towards some sort
of documentation?
|
For some reason it makes me think of poker, if that's any help.
--
SML |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Areff
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:48 am
Post subject: Re: "Make the nut" |
|
|
Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: | Can't point you to documentation, but "making the nut" is both
familiar to me and something I have used and do use. I know it more
as "The monthly nut is...." meaning the amount of profit that needs to
be made to cover the basic expenses.
|
Wait, it's not profit *until* you've paid the basic expenses, right?
What's the definition of "profit", in English usage?
In _Goodfellas_ Morrie (probably mispronounced, BTASN) had a line "No more
nut!" when he was waxing enthusiastic about the proposed Lufthansa heist.
--
I'm comparatively normal for a guy raised in Brooklyn.
- Alvy Singer |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Donna Richoux
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:15 am
Post subject: Re: "Make the nut" |
|
|
Sara Lorimer <que.sara.saraDELETE@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Ken Mahler wrote:
OK. There's a fierce battle brewing in my family surrounding the phrase,
"Make the nut". The phrase literally means "covering one's expenses", as in
a business sense, but can be more loosely used to convey the idea of "making
the grade" or "living up to a certain standard".
Anyone out there ever heard of this expression? It is a bit obscure, but I'm
certain it exists. If anyone knows of it, can you point me towards some sort
of documentation?
For some reason it makes me think of poker, if that's any help.
|
It's the tenth meaning of "nut" as a noun in M-W ll:
10 : the amount of money that must be earned in order to break even
I don't think it has to be a three-word phrase -- "making" it would
simply mean you had made that much, you had earned back your starting
cost.
I've heard it somewhere, though I can't remember what circumstances. Not
very often.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Robert Lieblich
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:27 am
Post subject: Re: "Make the nut" |
|
|
Sara Lorimer wrote:
| Quote: |
Ken Mahler wrote:
OK. There's a fierce battle brewing in my family surrounding the phrase,
"Make the nut". The phrase literally means "covering one's expenses", as in
a business sense, but can be more loosely used to convey the idea of "making
the grade" or "living up to a certain standard".
Anyone out there ever heard of this expression? It is a bit obscure, but I'm
certain it exists. If anyone knows of it, can you point me towards some sort
of documentation?
For some reason it makes me think of poker, if that's any help.
|
I answered this at tedious length over on AEU. Feel free to ignore
me.
--
Liebs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Dean
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:51 am
Post subject: Re: "Make the nut" |
|
|
Ken Mahler wrote:
| Quote: | OK. There's a fierce battle brewing in my family surrounding the
phrase, "Make the nut". The phrase literally means "covering one's
expenses", as in a business sense, but can be more loosely used to
convey the idea of "making the grade" or "living up to a certain
standard".
Anyone out there ever heard of this expression? It is a bit obscure,
but I'm certain it exists. If anyone knows of it, can you point me
towards some sort of documentation?
I'll copy the reply I made in aeu for those who balk at making the trek. |
Plus an added bit at the bottom since I've now checked OED
BTW, it's thoughtful of you to avoid cross-posting but a limited amount
is generally thought to be OK and cross-posting between aue and aeu is
quite common and rarely objected to.
Not "making the nut" Percy, but "nut" has several US meanings in
relation to finances and it's easy to see where "making" can be added
on.
Partridge's Dic of Slang has :
"rent for stall or sideshow or stand at a fair" with a reported
explanation "because rent is a nut to be cracked (paid) before reaching
kernel (income)" (which sounds like bollox to me but what do I know).
The Cassell Dic of Slang by Jonathan Green has :
"1. [20C] [US] (orig. entertainment) the initial outlay, overheads,
expenses; the break-even sum as in a theatre production or film, after
which profit starts. 2 [20C] [US] any required sum. 3. [1920s +] (US
Und.) protection money paid to corrupt policemen. 4. [1970s] [US] a fund
used for bribery and other illegal activities, esp. by police.[SE 'nut'
as being the heart of the fruit: such money is at the heart of a
project, a relationship etc]"
I first encountered it in the works of my old pal George V Higgins,
notably in "The Digger's Game". Here's a scene where the Digger is
explaining to his brother, the priest, how he lost 18,000 dollars in Las
Vegas. He has 2,000 dollars and doesn't know whether to use it paying
interest for a while (at 400 bucks a week - the 'vig') or reducing the
capital (the 'nut'):
"Four hundred a week," the Digger said. "I got two grand. That's
either vig plus sixteen off the nut, or it's five weeks to raise the
eighteen."
=====================
Bonus definitions.
OED has:
"b. to make the nut: (see quot.).
1899 Allbutt's Syst. Med. VIII. 12 The violoncello players+who seek
to get high-pitched notes from their instruments by shortening the
strings by violent pressure with the out~side of the phalangeal joint of
the left thumb, while the fingers are engaged in stopping the string
lower down (a manouvre known as 'making the nut'). "
.... which I don't think has anything to do with our sheep.
But OED also has:
"nut ... 20. U.S. slang. The amount of money required for a venture;
overhead costs. Hence transf., any sum of money."
With cites such as
1933 Sun (Baltimore) 28 Jan. 16/4 The difficulty of 'making the nut',
the term applied to accumulating the rental charge due each night to the
owner of the cab ... 1936 Amer. Speech XI. 219 He [sc. the producer]
decides that in order to open the show a certain amount of money will be
necessary. This amount is the production nut ... 1972 Publishers' Weekly
14 Feb. 60/1 He submitted a strong script that led Fox to substitute
color film and wide screen for black-and-white and the conventional
small-screen ratio, and to raise the nut to $400,000."
There's even a reference from JB Preistley, which took me aback:
" 1962 J. B. Priestley Margin Released vi. 202 In the Thirties, when we
could produce Laburnum Grove+for about £800+the weekly running costs-the
'get-out' or 'nut'-were round about the same figure, theatre and all. "
--
John Dean
Oxford |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adrian Bailey
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:53 am
Post subject: Re: "Make the nut" |
|
|
"Ken Mahler" <ken@ohioACTpros.com> wrote in message
news:115lumnc2tqn078@corp.supernews.com...
| Quote: | OK. There's a fierce battle brewing in my family surrounding the phrase,
"Make the nut". The phrase literally means "covering one's expenses",
|
No it doesn't.
Adrian |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aaron Davies
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:16 am
Post subject: Re: "Make the nut" |
|
|
John Dean <john-dean@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
| Quote: | I'll copy the reply I made in aeu for those who balk at making the trek.
Plus an added bit at the bottom since I've now checked OED
|
Most of that sounds like folk etymologies that got recorded when the
researchers couldn't find anything more plausible. I'd consider it just
as likely that it has some connection to "net".
--
Aaron Davies
Opinions expressed are solely those of a random number generator.
"I don't know if it's real or not but it is a myth."
-Jami JoAnne of alt.folklore.urban, showing her grasp on reality. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tony Cooper
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:27 am
Post subject: Re: "Make the nut" |
|
|
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:31:45 -0400, "Ken Mahler" <ken@ohioACTpros.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | OK. There's a fierce battle brewing in my family surrounding the phrase,
"Make the nut". The phrase literally means "covering one's expenses", as in
a business sense,
Anyone out there ever heard of this expression? It is a bit obscure, but I'm
certain it exists. If anyone knows of it, can you point me towards some sort
of documentation?
|
Can't point you to documentation, but "making the nut" is both
familiar to me and something I have used and do use. I know it more
as "The monthly nut is...." meaning the amount of profit that needs to
be made to cover the basic expenses.
| Quote: | but can be more loosely used to convey the idea of "making
the grade" or "living up to a certain standard".
|
I wouldn't use it that way. The "nut" is the breakeven point in my
lexicon, so you can't live up to much of a standard if you only cover
the basic expenses.
If you want another reference, Google "monthly nut". I found:
" You're right on this one, but it's pretty common for investors (and
others) to mix up the terms "burn rate" and "monthly nut," especially
in startups. A company's burn rate is the NET amount of cash it
"burns" through every month. Thus, if a company starts the year with
$5 million in the bank and ends with $4 million, its burn rate is a
million
dollars a year. The "monthly nut" is the total amount of cash that the
company spends on basic expenses--salaries, rent, travel, etc.--
regardless of how much cash is actually collected. "
at: http://www.gonnerman.com/newsletters/financialreporting.htm
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando FL |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tony Cooper
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:29 am
Post subject: Re: "Make the nut" |
|
|
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:53:15 GMT, "Adrian Bailey" <dadge@hotmail.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | "Ken Mahler" <ken@ohioACTpros.com> wrote in message
news:115lumnc2tqn078@corp.supernews.com...
OK. There's a fierce battle brewing in my family surrounding the phrase,
"Make the nut". The phrase literally means "covering one's expenses",
No it doesn't.
|
You might want to qualify that with a "....to me" unless it's a
quibble with the use of "literally".
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando FL |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tony Cooper
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:08 am
Post subject: Re: "Make the nut" |
|
|
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 02:48:25 +0000 (UTC), Areff <me@privacy.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | Tony Cooper wrote:
Can't point you to documentation, but "making the nut" is both
familiar to me and something I have used and do use. I know it more
as "The monthly nut is...." meaning the amount of profit that needs to
be made to cover the basic expenses.
Wait, it's not profit *until* you've paid the basic expenses, right?
|
Sure it is. Matsuo Takahashi buys $60 worth of meat, buns, catsup,
and pickles for Arnold's Diner. He sells $100 worth of hamburgers to
Richie and his friends and makes a profit of $40.00. The other
expenses - the nut - reduce the profit. You can talk about gross
profit and net profit and the other accounting terms, but when
explaining the "nut" it's not necessary.
That $40 is a profit-on-sales, and not the final amount of profit he
will make, but it's still considered a profit.
Even your version of profit is not profit if you want to play
accounting term games. It would be called something like "pre-tax
profit". And then there are the steps in between net profit and
pre-tax profit like adjustments from write-offs and depreciation and
so on.
Don't make this complicated, Areff. The guy just wants to know if
"nut" is used and what it means.
| Quote: | What's the definition of "profit", in English usage?
|
That's one of those questions that is answered by a question.
What profit figure are you asking about? You want a dictionary
definition or a working definition or an accountant's definition? In
business, we generally think of it as the difference between what we
get and what we spend, but we understand that whatever we identify as
profit is subject to later change. So the profit on sales is not the
profit a few lines down on the P&L.
For example, on that transaction above...the $40 is a "profit", but we
might not actually get the $100. If we invoice the customer for
$100, we aren't assured that we'll even see the money. If we're on
the accrual method we have a profit, but if we're on a cash basis we
don't have the profit until the customer ponies up. If we have a
profit on the accrual method, and the customer stiffs us, the profit
figure stays up there on the P&L but is reduced a few lines down.
You can turn this discussion over to the accountants and the pedants,
but Matsuo - and Al Delvecchio before him - knew that they had to make
a profit on that $60's worth of meat, buns, catsup, and pickles as a
way to make their nut.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando FL |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Don Phillipson
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:42 pm
Post subject: Re: "Make the nut" |
|
|
"John Dean" <john-dean@frag.lineone.net> wrote in message
news:d3f2dq$2ek$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
| Quote: | Partridge's Dic of Slang has :
"rent for stall or sideshow or stand at a fair" with a reported
explanation "because rent is a nut to be cracked (paid) before reaching
kernel (income)" (which sounds like bollox to me but what do I know).
|
This is precisely how the term was used in the N.American
carnival (traveling funfair) industry in the 1960s. Most of the
"shows" were owned by old-established proprietors (e.g.
Conklin Shows Ltd.) but subcontracted to individual
entrepreneurs (like my college classmate Nick.) The
nut=rent had first claim on whatever receipts each such
show took in.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Donna Richoux
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:48 pm
Post subject: Re: "Make the nut" |
|
|
Aaron Davies <aaron@avalon.pascal-central.com.invalid> wrote:
[re "making the nut"]
| Quote: | John Dean <john-dean@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
I'll copy the reply I made in aeu for those who balk at making the trek.
Plus an added bit at the bottom since I've now checked OED
Most of that sounds like folk etymologies that got recorded when the
researchers couldn't find anything more plausible.
|
How's that? They were citations of uses. Only Partridge attempted to
explain why a nut. The violin thing must be irrelevant. The others fit
the definition, as far as I can see.
| Quote: | I'd consider it just
as likely that it has some connection to "net".
|
But they're not used the same in those quotes at all. "Nut" is the
starting cost. It's an investment, an outlay, an expense. "Net" is what
you have left over from your income, like profit. Coincidental
similarity.
--
Best - Donna Richoux |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Dean
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:10 pm
Post subject: Re: "Make the nut" |
|
|
Don Phillipson wrote:
| Quote: | "John Dean" <john-dean@frag.lineone.net> wrote in message
news:d3f2dq$2ek$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
Partridge's Dic of Slang has :
"rent for stall or sideshow or stand at a fair" with a reported
explanation "because rent is a nut to be cracked (paid) before
reaching kernel (income)" (which sounds like bollox to me but what
do I know).
This is precisely how the term was used in the N.American
carnival (traveling funfair) industry in the 1960s. Most of the
"shows" were owned by old-established proprietors (e.g.
Conklin Shows Ltd.) but subcontracted to individual
entrepreneurs (like my college classmate Nick.) The
nut=rent had first claim on whatever receipts each such
show took in.
|
You may have misunderstood. I wasn't saying the carnie explanation was
bollox - it seems as good as any. I was saying the nut/kernel analogy
was bollox, which I still think it is.
--
John Dean
Oxford |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard Maurer
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:32 am
Post subject: Re: "Make the nut" |
|
|
AmHer1(1969) has for sense 8 of nut:
The amount of money invested in a theatrical production,
or the cost of running it until a profit can be made.
I was more familiar with this in the "monthly nut" sense,
which must be derivative. I am reminded of "seed money"
and now understand "making the nut" better.
To support Tony elsethread, profit in the quote means
a running profit on a time scale of about a week,
not a profit for the entire endeavor.
-- ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
FAQ
Memberlist
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in