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principiante
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:27 pm
Post subject: Why "Blue Soldier" and not "Soldier Blue"? |
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Hi,
I am confused by the title of the movie "Blue Soldier".
Why not "Soldier Blue"? Is there any difference?
Thanks,
ciao
Alessandro (native italian)
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principiante
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Why "Blue Soldier" and not "Soldier Blue"? |
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principiante wrote:
| Quote: | Hi,
I am confused by the title of the movie "Blue Soldier".
Why not "Soldier Blue"? Is there any difference?
Thanks,
ciao
Alessandro (native italian)
|
I am infact *very* confused. The right title is "Soldier Blue"
and I'm asking if there is any difference with "Blue Soldier".
Ciao
Alessandro |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Why "Blue Soldier" and not "Soldier Blue"? |
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On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:27:59 +0200, principiante
<principiante@beginners.org> wrote:
| Quote: | Hi,
I am confused by the title of the movie "Blue Soldier".
Why not "Soldier Blue"? Is there any difference?
Which movie are you asking about? |
There was movie that was released in 1970, called "Soldier Blue". It was an
American "Western" starring Donald Pleasence as "Isaac Q. Cumber", and Peter
Strauss as "Honus Gent".
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066390/
I can't find a movie called "Blue Soldier".
In English the normal order of words is an adjective followed by a noun.
The title Soldier Blue has the noun first. I think this is for artistic
reasons.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK
(posting from u.c.l.e)
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principiante
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Why "Blue Soldier" and not "Soldier Blue"? |
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Peter Duncanson wrote:
(cut)
| Quote: |
In English the normal order of words is an adjective followed by a noun.
The title Soldier Blue has the noun first. I think this is for artistic
reasons.
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Thanks for your reply. How would it sound in normal speech?
Ale |
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John Hall
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Why "Blue Soldier" and not "Soldier Blue"? |
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In article <ov4ed.19150$1q2.16259@tornado.fastwebnet.it>,
principiante <principiante@beginners.org> writes:
| Quote: | principiante wrote:
Hi,
I am confused by the title of the movie "Blue Soldier".
Why not "Soldier Blue"? Is there any difference?
Thanks,
ciao
Alessandro (native italian)
I am infact *very* confused. The right title is "Soldier Blue"
and I'm asking if there is any difference with "Blue Soldier".
|
In English an adjective almost always precedes the noun it is
qualifying, so the title "Soldier Blue" is presumably trying to make
some point through the unusual word order. But I confess to not knowing
what the point might be. They may just have thought that the word order
would help to fix the title in people's minds.
--
John Hall
"I am not young enough to know everything."
Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) |
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principiante
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Why "Blue Soldier" and not "Soldier Blue"? |
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John Hall wrote:
| Quote: | In article <ov4ed.19150$1q2.16259@tornado.fastwebnet.it>,
principiante <principiante@beginners.org> writes:
principiante wrote:
Hi,
I am confused by the title of the movie "Blue Soldier".
Why not "Soldier Blue"? Is there any difference?
Thanks,
ciao
Alessandro (native italian)
I am infact *very* confused. The right title is "Soldier Blue"
and I'm asking if there is any difference with "Blue Soldier".
In English an adjective almost always precedes the noun it is
qualifying, so the title "Soldier Blue" is presumably trying to make
some point through the unusual word order. But I confess to not knowing
what the point might be. They may just have thought that the word order
would help to fix the title in people's minds.
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Thank you very much, John. Could you make another example of this usage?
Ale |
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Phil C.
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Why "Blue Soldier" and not "Soldier Blue"? |
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On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:17:55 +0100, John Hall
<nospam_nov03@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | In article <ov4ed.19150$1q2.16259@tornado.fastwebnet.it>,
principiante <principiante@beginners.org> writes:
principiante wrote:
Hi,
I am confused by the title of the movie "Blue Soldier".
Why not "Soldier Blue"? Is there any difference?
Thanks,
ciao
Alessandro (native italian)
I am infact *very* confused. The right title is "Soldier Blue"
and I'm asking if there is any difference with "Blue Soldier".
In English an adjective almost always precedes the noun it is
qualifying, so the title "Soldier Blue" is presumably trying to make
some point through the unusual word order. But I confess to not knowing
what the point might be. They may just have thought that the word order
would help to fix the title in people's minds.
|
Given that the film was about the brutality of soldiers and had a
thinly veiled Vietnam message, I assumed it was an ironic quote from
an old poem or song which had used poetic licence with the word order
for reasons of rhythm or rhyme. Perhaps it is. However, "soldier blue"
does seem to be an old name for a shade of blue paint (cf. navy blue)
http://www.p4a.com/itemsummary/78796.htm
Perhaps that was how it became a stock phrase. Americans may know
more.
--
Phil C. |
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principiante
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Why "Blue Soldier" and not "Soldier Blue"? |
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Phil C. wrote:
(cut)
This is interesting, I never thought to it before. Also in
italian we have this kind of construction: for instance,
"verde acqua"
means
"a kind of green (verde) which resembles sea water (acqua)"
while "acqua verde" simply means "green water".
The difference is that in Italian the adjective can precede
or follow the noun, although the first use is more "poetic".
Ciao
Ale |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Why "Blue Soldier" and not "Soldier Blue"? |
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On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:14:58 +0200, principiante
<principiante@beginners.org> wrote:
| Quote: | Phil C. wrote:
(cut)
However, "soldier blue"
does seem to be an old name for a shade of blue paint (cf. navy blue)
http://www.p4a.com/itemsummary/78796.htm
In this case 'blue' is a noun, and 'soldier' is being used as an adjective |
to qualify the noun.
| Quote: | This is interesting, I never thought to it before. Also in
italian we have this kind of construction: for instance,
"verde acqua"
means
"a kind of green (verde) which resembles sea water (acqua)"
while "acqua verde" simply means "green water".
The difference is that in Italian the adjective can precede
or follow the noun, although the first use is more "poetic".
I have seen the movie but I don't think I really understood the title, |
Soldier Blue, at the time. It is possible that it has two meanings
simultaneously.
1. 'Blue' - the colour of the uniform.
2. 'Blue' - the adjective meaning "dark, depressing, disconsolate, dismal,
dispiriting, gloomy, grim"
http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn2.0?stage=1&word=blue
--
Peter Duncanson
UK
(posting from u.c.l.e) |
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Phil C.
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Why "Blue Soldier" and not "Soldier Blue"? |
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On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:14:40 +0100, Peter Duncanson
<mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:14:58 +0200, principiante
principiante@beginne rs.orgwrote
Phil C. wrote:
(cut)
However, "soldier blue"
does seem to be an old name for a shade of blue paint (cf. navy blue)
http://www.p4a.com/itemsummary/78796.htm
In this case 'blue' is a noun, and 'soldier' is being used as an adjective
to qualify the noun.
|
Yes. Do we know that isn't the case in the film title? That's the
"joy" of English.
| Quote: | This is interesting, I never thought to it before. Also in
italian we have this kind of construction: for instance,
"verde acqua"
means
"a kind of green (verde) which resembles sea water (acqua)"
while "acqua verde" simply means "green water".
The difference is that in Italian the adjective can precede
or follow the noun, although the first use is more "poetic".
I have seen the movie but I don't think I really understood the title,
Soldier Blue, at the time. It is possible that it has two meanings
simultaneously.
1. 'Blue' - the colour of the uniform.
2. 'Blue' - the adjective meaning "dark, depressing, disconsolate, dismal,
dispiriting, gloomy, grim"
|
It may be relevant that Google hits for "soldier-blue" with either
"paint" or "dye" are very peaceful - we find ourselves in gentle
worlds of needlecraft and antique restoration etc. Perhaps that's
where the the title found its ironic contrast? If so, it was a pretty
obscure reference - for UK audiences at least. But then a lot of film
titles are obscure. Is there supposed to be any sense in the more
recent James Bond titles, for example? Beats me.
--
Phil C. |
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:23 am
Post subject: Re: Why "Blue Soldier" and not "Soldier Blue"? |
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Peter Duncanson wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:27:59 +0200, principiante
principiante@beginners.org> wrote:
Hi,
I am confused by the title of the movie "Blue Soldier".
Why not "Soldier Blue"? Is there any difference?
Which movie are you asking about?
There was movie that was released in 1970, called "Soldier Blue". It
was an American "Western" starring Donald Pleasence as "Isaac Q.
Cumber", and Peter Strauss as "Honus Gent".
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066390/
|
It was for many years the finest movie about the Vietnam war. ("Apocalypse
Now" was probably the finest movie set in Vietnam - but that was an
adaptation of Conrad's "Heart of Darkness".)
--
John Briggs |
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Rotes Sapiens
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:58 am
Post subject: Re: Why "Blue Soldier" and not "Soldier Blue"? |
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On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:35:16 +0200, principiante
<principiante@beginners.org> wrote:
| Quote: | principiante wrote:
I am infact *very* confused. The right title is "Soldier Blue"
and I'm asking if there is any difference with "Blue Soldier".
|
In many countries, blue is the colour of the uniform that sailors
wear, so I don't think that could be it.
"Blue" is a liquid which is applied to bare external metal on a gun to
protect it and stop it from corroding. It makes the gun metal look a
very dark blue or black colour.
Blue is also slang for a personal conflict, especially a physical or
bitter fight.
But I think that they meant blue as in unhappy soldier or a sad
situation. They were just trying to make the title sound fancy.
A search for Biloxi Blues (or Biloxy Blues) reveals a lot of Blues.
Here is a truckload of titles and sayings that end with Blue or
Blues:\
http://www.funny.co.uk/keywords/funeral-blues-auden.html
A poem that uses skies blue
http://www.your-poetry.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=41345
Sig:
I have a brain the size of a planet. It's not much good to me, however. It's on a different planet. |
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