| Author |
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Gunter Kuhnle
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:33 pm
Post subject: When does one say 'one'? |
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Hallo,
something I still don't understand in (british) English is the usage of
'one'. In old movies, or speeches by (older) people, it is normally used
in the way 'one does', 'one knows' etc.
However, I've also heard it in mock Queen's speeches or when some person
was to be portrayed as posh.
So I'm a bit confused; is it normal if one uses one? Does it sound - to
a native speaker - strange, weird or normal?
In German, the equivalent to this usage of 'one' is 'you', and I'm
always tempted to use this instead of 'one' as I feel very uncertain
about it, and I've also heard native speakers using 'you' instead of
'one'.
Now, I would appreciate any help on this!
Best wishes,
Gunter
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Tony Mountifield
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:33 pm
Post subject: Re: When does one say 'one'? |
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In article <slrncn21nq.kl.gk-usenet@kuhnle.co.uk>,
Gunter Kuhnle <gk-usenet@kuhnle.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Hallo,
something I still don't understand in (british) English is the usage of
'one'. In old movies, or speeches by (older) people, it is normally used
in the way 'one does', 'one knows' etc.
|
Yes, it's less common than it used to be, which is why you mainly hear
older people use it.
It's the impersonal pronoun, so "how does one do this?" means the same as
"how is this done?", whereas using "you", "he" or "I" is referring to a
specific person.
| Quote: | However, I've also heard it in mock Queen's speeches or when some person
was to be portrayed as posh.
|
That is because of the perception of posh people using "one" in an affected
way as a replacement for "I" or "you": "One finds those sort of events SUCH
a bore, doesn't one?" Sounds a bit 1920s to me.
| Quote: | So I'm a bit confused; is it normal if one uses one? Does it sound - to
a native speaker - strange, weird or normal?
|
My first example would sound normal, but slightly formal. From someone
who is known for speaking in a precise manner it wouldn't sound out of
place, but it is not colloquial. Most people say "you" where "one" would
strictly be correct: "How do you get from London to Birmingham?" "You
drive up the M40." Notice how both people use "you", but are not referring
to anyone in particular. Compare "How do *you* get from London to
Birmingham?" "*I* go up the M1 and M6, but most people would use the M40."
| Quote: | In German, the equivalent to this usage of 'one' is 'you', and I'm
always tempted to use this instead of 'one' as I feel very uncertain
about it, and I've also heard native speakers using 'you' instead of
'one'.
|
Interesting. I always considered the German equivalent of "one" to be "man":
"Wie schreibt man das?" - "How does one spell that?". Although most people
nowadays would say "How do you spell that?", or sometimes "How do I spell that?"
Is "man" still in common use in German?
| Quote: | Now, I would appreciate any help on this!
Best wishes,
Gunter
|
Hope this helps!
mfg,
Tony
--
Tony Mountifield
Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org |
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Einde O'Callaghan
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:20 pm
Post subject: Re: When does one say 'one'? |
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Gunter Kuhnle wrote:
<snip>
| Quote: |
In German, the equivalent to this usage of 'one' is 'you', and I'm
always tempted to use this instead of 'one' as I feel very uncertain
about it, and I've also heard native speakers using 'you' instead of
'one'.
In fact, the German equivalent of "one" is "man" - only in very very |
casual (and anglicised) use have I ever heard "du" used in this sense.
To my ear using "one" sounds quite formal, but it's certainly not incorrect.
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan (German resident)
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Gunter Kuhnle
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:53 pm
Post subject: Re: When does one say 'one'? |
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* Tony Mountifield <tony@softins.clara.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | In German, the equivalent to this usage of 'one' is 'you', and I'm
always tempted to use this instead of 'one' as I feel very uncertain
about it, and I've also heard native speakers using 'you' instead of
'one'.
Interesting. I always considered the German equivalent of "one" to be
"man": "Wie schreibt man das?" - "How does one spell that?". Although
most people nowadays would say "How do you spell that?", or sometimes
"How do I spell that?" Is "man" still in common use in German?
|
Sorry - this was my mistake for being a bit imprecise. Of course 'man'
is the right word in most cases in German, but 'Du' is sometimes used in
certain circumstances.
AFAIK, it is rather colloquial. I didn't notice it before I came here;
but in the UK I noticed a lot of Germans (including myself) using 'you'
instead of 'one' and realised that this is a very literal translation
from German.
It does!
Best wishes,
Gunter |
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:54 pm
Post subject: Re: When does one say 'one'? |
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Gunter Kuhnle wrote:
| Quote: |
something I still don't understand in (british) English is the usage
of 'one'. In old movies, or speeches by (older) people, it is
normally used in the way 'one does', 'one knows' etc.
However, I've also heard it in mock Queen's speeches or when some
person was to be portrayed as posh.
|
It's a joke related to the Royal "We" (traditionally, the monarch never says
"I", always "We") - pretentious members of the royal family have been caught
saying "one" instead of "I".
--
John Briggs |
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Gunter Kuhnle
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:54 pm
Post subject: Re: When does one say 'one'? |
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* Einde O'Callaghan <einde.ocallaghan@planet-interkom.de> wrote:
| Quote: | In German, the equivalent to this usage of 'one' is 'you', and I'm
always tempted to use this instead of 'one' as I feel very uncertain
about it, and I've also heard native speakers using 'you' instead of
'one'.
In fact, the German equivalent of "one" is "man" - only in very very
casual (and anglicised) use have I ever heard "du" used in this sense.
|
I've heard it several times and never thought of it as anglicised - is
it really? As I've written before, I thought it was a typical Germanism
in English using the 'you'.
| Quote: | Regards, Einde O'Callaghan (German resident)
|
Where about?
Best wishes,
Gunter |
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Einde O'Callaghan
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:20 pm
Post subject: Re: When does one say 'one'? |
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Gunter Kuhnle wrote:
| Quote: | * Einde O'Callaghan <einde.ocallaghan@planet-interkom.de> wrote:
In German, the equivalent to this usage of 'one' is 'you', and I'm
always tempted to use this instead of 'one' as I feel very uncertain
about it, and I've also heard native speakers using 'you' instead of
'one'.
In fact, the German equivalent of "one" is "man" - only in very very
casual (and anglicised) use have I ever heard "du" used in this sense.
I've heard it several times and never thought of it as anglicised - is
it really? As I've written before, I thought it was a typical Germanism
in English using the 'you'.
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan (German resident)
Where about?
Saxony |
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan |
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Gunter Kuhnle
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:33 pm
Post subject: Re: When does one say 'one'? |
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* Einde O'Callaghan <einde.ocallaghan@planet-interkom.de> wrote:
| Quote: | Where about?
Saxony
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That's nice - I have spent almost eight years of my live in Leipzig!
Best wishes,
Gunter |
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FB
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:30 am
Post subject: We are confused (was: When does one say 'one'?) |
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On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:54:21 GMT, John Briggs wrote:
| Quote: | It's a joke related to the Royal "We" (traditionally, the monarch never says
"I", always "We")
|
But when do they do so? I've listened to some recordings of speeches
delivered by the Queen and she always said "I", or "Prince Philip/the Duke
of Edinburgh and I".
P.S. In fact, I watched "Shakespeare in Love", where Queen Elizabeth I/Judi
Dench says, for instance, "I know who I am", "They're not acted for you,
they're acted for me". Now, is that film really inaccurate or does/did the
Queen/King use either "I" or "we" depending on the context? One would be
grateful if someone could shed some light on the matter. (kidding, ça va
sans dire)
Bye, FB
--
"Is this Miss Prism a female of repellent aspect, remotely connected with
education?". "She is the most cultivated of ladies, and the very picture of
respectability". "It is obviously the same person".
("The Importance of Being Earnest", Oscar Wilde) |
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Enrico_C
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:56 pm
Post subject: Re: We are confused (was: When does one say 'one'?) |
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FB
<fam.balducciNOSPAM@tin.it>wrote<1jk9a9ozwpsvn$.163nypg7c983a$.dlg@40tude.net>
| Quote: |
On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:54:21 GMT, John Briggs wrote:
It's a joke related to the Royal "We" (traditionally, the monarch never
says
"I", always "We")
But when do they do so? I've listened to some recordings of speeches
delivered by the Queen and she always said "I", or "Prince Philip/the Duke
of Edinburgh and I".
P.S. In fact, I watched "Shakespeare in Love", where Queen Elizabeth I/Judi
Dench says, for instance, "I know who I am", "They're not acted for you,
they're acted for me". Now, is that film really inaccurate or does/did the
Queen/King use either "I" or "we" depending on the context? One would be
grateful if someone could shed some light on the matter. (kidding, ça va
sans dire)
|
Ol' Lizzy didn't know herself ;)
QUOTE http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/elizabeth1.html
We certainly think that if God ever direct our hearts to consideration of
marriage we shall never accept or choose any absent husband how powerful and
wealthy a Prince soever. But that we are not to give you an answer until we
have seen your person is so far from the thing itself that we never even
considered such a thing. But I have always given both to your brother, who is
certainly a most excellent prince and deservedly very dear to us, and also to
your ambassador likewise the same answer with scarcely any variation of the
words, that we do not conceive in our heart to take a husband, but highly
commend this single life, and hope that your Serene Highness will no longer
spend time in waiting for us.
--
Enrico C
Private replies to: enrico DOT c AT people DOT
it
-----------------------------------------
Message sent by Excite Newsgroups.
http://www.excite.co.uk/newsgroup |
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Einde O'Callaghan
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:22 am
Post subject: Re: We are confused |
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FB wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:54:21 GMT, John Briggs wrote:
It's a joke related to the Royal "We" (traditionally, the monarch never says
"I", always "We")
But when do they do so? I've listened to some recordings of speeches
delivered by the Queen and she always said "I", or "Prince Philip/the Duke
of Edinburgh and I".
P.S. In fact, I watched "Shakespeare in Love", where Queen Elizabeth I/Judi
Dench says, for instance, "I know who I am", "They're not acted for you,
they're acted for me". Now, is that film really inaccurate or does/did the
Queen/King use either "I" or "we" depending on the context? One would be
grateful if someone could shed some light on the matter. (kidding, ça va
sans dire)
I wouldn't take the dialoge in "Shakespeare in Love" as a guide to how |
QE1 spoke. I very much doubt whether any modern-day film about Good
Queen Bess would use the language of the period - it would sound rather
odd to our ears. Some of it would even be fairly incomprehensible
because of changes in pronunciation, grammar and vocabulary during the
last 400 years. Certainly QE1's accent would have been quite different
from that of QE2.
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan |
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FB
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:28 am
Post subject: Re: We are confused |
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On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:22:43 +0200, Einde O'Callaghan wrote:
| Quote: | I wouldn't take the dialoge in "Shakespeare in Love" as a guide to how
QE1 spoke.
|
Of course.
| Quote: | I very much doubt whether any modern-day film about Good
Queen Bess would use the language of the period - it would sound rather
odd to our ears. Some of it would even be fairly incomprehensible
because of changes in pronunciation, grammar and vocabulary during the
last 400 years. Certainly QE1's accent would have been quite different
from that of QE2.
|
What about QE2?
Bye, FB
--
"Is this Miss Prism a female of repellent aspect, remotely connected with
education?". "She is the most cultivated of ladies, and the very picture of
respectability". "It is obviously the same person".
("The Importance of Being Earnest", Oscar Wilde) |
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Luke
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:07 am
Post subject: Re: We are confused |
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FB wrote:
She used to take her cue from Margaret "We are a grandmother" Thatcher.
So Her Majesty doesn't say "we" much these days. |
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Molly Mockford
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:27 am
Post subject: Re: We are confused |
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At 21:07:48 on Sun, 17 Oct 2004, Luke <lpgmx@f2s.com> wrote in
<ckujea$e74$1@news.freedom2surf.net>:
| Quote: | FB wrote:
What about QE2?
She used to take her cue from Margaret "We are a grandmother" Thatcher.
So Her Majesty doesn't say "we" much these days.
|
I don't think the current $monarch ever said "one" particularly often;
however, Princess Anne used to use it heavily; also Prince Charles,
albeit to a lesser extent. I don't think I've ever heard Andrew or
Edward use it (although I have to confess I don't often get around to
chatting to them in the pub).
The great benefit of the term (as in the French "on" and the German
"man") is to distinguish between the personal and the impersonal in the
second person (singular or plural). "Where might you buy shoes?" versus
"Where might one buy shoes?", for example, would result in two very
different replies. The junior royals, however, tended to use it in the
first person: "One doesn't much care for that" - which, as far as I
know, has little grammatical validity.
The whole purpose of the "royal we" is that it *was* used in the first
person, to distinguish between the individual and the role. Queen
Victoria's famous "We are not amused" doesn't mean "I don't find that
funny"; it means "Because I am a monarch, I can't possibly permit
myself to be seen to laugh at - or even approve of - that sort of
thing".
I expect to be corrected if I am wrong.
Hell, that's the only reason I'm in Usenet!
--
Molly Mockford
I think I've been too long on my own, but the little green goblin that
lives under the sink says I'm OK - and he's never wrong, so I must be!
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) |
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Molly Mockford
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:36 am
Post subject: Re: We are confused |
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At 22:27:49 on Sun, 17 Oct 2004, Molly Mockford
<nospamnobody@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote in
<GFEvskAVPucBFwea@molly.mockford>:
| Quote: | I don't think the current $monarch ever said "one" particularly often;
however, Princess Anne used to use it heavily; also Prince Charles,
albeit to a lesser extent. I don't think I've ever heard Andrew or
Edward use it (although I have to confess I don't often get around to
chatting to them in the pub).
|
Which reminds me that some years ago I used to write out many a cheque
for cash to "The Prince of Wales", and did occasionally wonder what my
bank manager made of it.
--
Molly Mockford
I think I've been too long on my own, but the little green goblin that
lives under the sink says I'm OK - and he's never wrong, so I must be!
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) |
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