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Message |
bogus address
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:02 pm
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
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| Quote: | The other obvious pattern in place names from early American settlements is
Indian names. That's natural enough, but sometimes it leads to some
comically bizarre results. One of my relatives lived in a town along a
river wetlands area called Poquoson, which is Native American for swamp.
One imagines the scene: Some early English settlers ask a nearby native
what they call this area. "Poquoson" is the response from the Indian, who
wonders how these foreigners could be so stupid as to not know what a swamp
is. "Well, there you go, Poquoson it is! Write it down on the map, Harry."
|
You get the same in Britain with Celtic placenames, leading to bizarre
things like "River Avon". In Scotland it helps to know a bit of Gaelic
when planning a hillwalk from a map, so you'll know what to expect when
walking over Pass of the Great Swamp between Black Windy Mountain and
Soggy Green Hill (most Gaelic placenames are topographical descriptions).
Some Gaelic placenames are not quite what they seem. The Cuillin Hills
in Skye have an extraordinary density of names for their peaks, gullies
and ridges. Almost all of them date only from the late 19th century,
when mountaineers started taking an interest - the local shepherds spent
as little time as possible up there and only named the most obvious bits.
A friend of mine assured me that there was a place somewhere in the
Highlands whose name, first recorded by a non-Gaelic-speaking surveyor,
means "stick that telescope thing up your arse".
========> Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce <========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html> food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files and CD-ROMs of Scottish music.
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Voicer
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:44 pm
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
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|
"bogus address" <bogus@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:12716@purr.demon.co.uk...
| Quote: |
The other obvious pattern in place names from early American settlements
is
Indian names. That's natural enough, but sometimes it leads to some
comically bizarre results. One of my relatives lived in a town along a
river wetlands area called Poquoson, which is Native American for swamp.
One imagines the scene: Some early English settlers ask a nearby native
what they call this area. "Poquoson" is the response from the Indian,
who
wonders how these foreigners could be so stupid as to not know what a
swamp
is. "Well, there you go, Poquoson it is! Write it down on the map,
Harry."
You get the same in Britain with Celtic placenames, leading to bizarre
things like "River Avon". In Scotland it helps to know a bit of Gaelic
when planning a hillwalk from a map, so you'll know what to expect when
walking over Pass of the Great Swamp between Black Windy Mountain and
Soggy Green Hill (most Gaelic placenames are topographical descriptions).
Some Gaelic placenames are not quite what they seem. The Cuillin Hills
in Skye have an extraordinary density of names for their peaks, gullies
and ridges. Almost all of them date only from the late 19th century,
when mountaineers started taking an interest - the local shepherds spent
as little time as possible up there and only named the most obvious bits.
A friend of mine assured me that there was a place somewhere in the
Highlands whose name, first recorded by a non-Gaelic-speaking surveyor,
means "stick that telescope thing up your arse".
========> Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce
========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131
6604760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html> food intolerance data &
recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files and CD-ROMs of Scottish
music.
|
One fascinating Americanism is the pronunciation of aunt.
Many American speakers including respected broadcaster Garrison Kiellor
pronounce this to rhyme with want, or taunt.
Why?
You would expect they would pronounce it the same way they pronounce can't,
to rhyme with pant.
Maybe, at one time, there was a great number of English Aunties in America?
Canadians pronounce aunt rhyming with pant, unless they have an aunt in the
Caribbean. |
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Einde O'Callaghan
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:56 pm
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
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|
bogus address wrote:
| Quote: | The other obvious pattern in place names from early American settlements is
Indian names. That's natural enough, but sometimes it leads to some
comically bizarre results. One of my relatives lived in a town along a
river wetlands area called Poquoson, which is Native American for swamp.
One imagines the scene: Some early English settlers ask a nearby native
what they call this area. "Poquoson" is the response from the Indian, who
wonders how these foreigners could be so stupid as to not know what a swamp
is. "Well, there you go, Poquoson it is! Write it down on the map, Harry."
You get the same in Britain with Celtic placenames, leading to bizarre
things like "River Avon". In Scotland it helps to know a bit of Gaelic
when planning a hillwalk from a map, so you'll know what to expect when
walking over Pass of the Great Swamp between Black Windy Mountain and
Soggy Green Hill (most Gaelic placenames are topographical descriptions).
Some Gaelic placenames are not quite what they seem. The Cuillin Hills
in Skye have an extraordinary density of names for their peaks, gullies
and ridges. Almost all of them date only from the late 19th century,
when mountaineers started taking an interest - the local shepherds spent
as little time as possible up there and only named the most obvious bits.
A friend of mine assured me that there was a place somewhere in the
Highlands whose name, first recorded by a non-Gaelic-speaking surveyor,
means "stick that telescope thing up your arse".
LOL! |
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
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Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:39 pm
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
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|
On 23 Sep, in article <12716@purr.demon.co.uk>
bogus@purr.demon.co.uk "bogus address" wrote:
| Quote: | A friend of mine assured me that there was a place somewhere in the
Highlands whose name, first recorded by a non-Gaelic-speaking surveyor,
means "stick that telescope thing up your arse".
|
This seems akin to the supposed recordings of the words "llama" and
"budgerigar".
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk
"I don't use Linux. I prefer to use an OS supported by a large multi-
national vendor, with a good office suite, excellent network/internet
software and decent hardware support." |
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David
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 1:23 am
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
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|
In article <wzp37xhxkzq9$.e4u9wl98bgur.dlg@40tude.net>,
Wanderer <me@privacy.net> wrote:
[Snip]
| Quote: | I see no further merit in continuing this discussion.
|
Good. Can I stop wriggling now?
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/aureole/50-ravens.htm
Upon the hill, within the stones, among the scattering of bones... |
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David
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 1:28 am
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
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|
In article <2bzy41ej33tx.1uw8qjjzxmnof$.dlg@40tude.net>, Wanderer
<me@privacy.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 08:43:47 +0100, David wrote:
In article <mt9pmr846jsl.1qfn550nayuer$.dlg@40tude.net>, Wanderer
me@privacy.net> wrote:
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:39:33 -0400, John Mazor wrote:
snip
Indeed. The BBC seems to make it a point to have a mix of
non-British presenters,
Err, they may be from ethnic minority backgrounds, but that
doesn't necessarily mean they are non-British.
That some of the presenters might be British from ethnic minority
backgrounds doesn't preclude the possibility (or even the
probability) that some presenters are non-British.
Did I say otherwise? I think not.
|
No, of course you didn't say otherwise. However, your phrasing did
suggest that the BBC's use of non-Britons was exceedingly unlikely
given the possibility of using ethnic minority Britons.
| Quote: | What's your point?
Are you being deliberately obtuse? JM suggested that the BBC employed
a mix of non-British presenters. Are you or JM privy to information
that would support that claim?
|
Are you privy to information that would disprove it?
I know I've heard non-Britons on R4; I should think it more likely that
non-Britons would be employed on the World Service.
| Quote: | A more accurate observation would be that the BBC seems to make a
point of using a mix of presenters from different ethnic backgrounds.
|
True but that doesn't say anything about their nationality, one way or
another.
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/ada/08-0.htm
Large, firm thighs, without too much fat on them... |
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Wanderer
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:14 am
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
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|
On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:28:58 +0100, David wrote:
| Quote: | In article <2bzy41ej33tx.1uw8qjjzxmnof$.dlg@40tude.net>, Wanderer
me@privacy.net> wrote:
|
<snip>
| Quote: | A more accurate observation would be that the BBC seems to make a
point of using a mix of presenters from different ethnic backgrounds.
True but that doesn't say anything about their nationality, one way or
another.
|
Good, very good! The light has obviously dawned.
--
wanderer at tesco dot net |
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David
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:23 am
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
|
|
In article <1h48kuw7gv2ej$.aqf1ol3ck3zx.dlg@40tude.net>, Wanderer
<me@privacy.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:28:58 +0100, David wrote:
In article <2bzy41ej33tx.1uw8qjjzxmnof$.dlg@40tude.net>, Wanderer
me@privacy.net> wrote:
snip
A more accurate observation would be that the BBC seems to make a
point of using a mix of presenters from different ethnic
backgrounds.
True but that doesn't say anything about their nationality, one way
or another.
Good, very good! The light has obviously dawned.
|
I'm glad to hear it. Thanks for letting me know.
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/wfolly/
The Wentworth Follies:
Needle's Eye, Hoober Stand, Keppel's Column, Rockingham Mausoleum |
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John Mazor
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 8:58 am
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
|
|
"Wanderer" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:mt9pmr846jsl.1qfn550nayuer$.dlg@40tude.net...
| Quote: | On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:39:33 -0400, John Mazor wrote:
snip
Indeed. The BBC seems to make it a point to have a mix of non-British
presenters,
Err, they may be from ethnic minority backgrounds, but that doesn't
necessarily mean they are non-British.
|
True enough, but some of them seem to belong to the "I was born elsewhere,
English is my second language" cohort. Whether or not that makes them
"British" is an artifact of their citizenship laws. |
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John Mazor
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 8:59 am
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
|
|
"bogus address" <bogus@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:12716@purr.demon.co.uk...
| Quote: |
The other obvious pattern in place names from early American settlements
is
Indian names. That's natural enough, but sometimes it leads to some
comically bizarre results. One of my relatives lived in a town along a
river wetlands area called Poquoson, which is Native American for swamp.
One imagines the scene: Some early English settlers ask a nearby native
what they call this area. "Poquoson" is the response from the Indian,
who
wonders how these foreigners could be so stupid as to not know what a
swamp
is. "Well, there you go, Poquoson it is! Write it down on the map,
Harry."
You get the same in Britain with Celtic placenames, leading to bizarre
things like "River Avon". In Scotland it helps to know a bit of Gaelic
when planning a hillwalk from a map, so you'll know what to expect when
walking over Pass of the Great Swamp between Black Windy Mountain and
Soggy Green Hill (most Gaelic placenames are topographical descriptions).
Some Gaelic placenames are not quite what they seem. The Cuillin Hills
in Skye have an extraordinary density of names for their peaks, gullies
and ridges. Almost all of them date only from the late 19th century,
when mountaineers started taking an interest - the local shepherds spent
as little time as possible up there and only named the most obvious bits.
A friend of mine assured me that there was a place somewhere in the
Highlands whose name, first recorded by a non-Gaelic-speaking surveyor,
means "stick that telescope thing up your arse".
|
Bwha-wha-wha! Good 'un, I can't possibly top that! If it ain't true, it
ought to be. |
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John Mazor
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:00 am
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
|
|
"Voicer" <Voicer@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:hjB4d.1712$Xh4.614@read1.cgocable.net...
| Quote: | One fascinating Americanism is the pronunciation of aunt.
Many American speakers including respected broadcaster Garrison Kiellor
pronounce this to rhyme with want, or taunt.
Why?
|
I struggled with this years ago, and concluded that it was to be consistent
with the universally accepted U.S. pronunciation of "haunt" to rhyme with
taunt.
Then I noticd that certain backwater speakers (I refuse to label them in
this newsgroup as Elizabethan!) used the dialect pronunciation of "hant" as
in a ghostly "hant" and a "hanted house". (Aspirated h in both hant and
house - we Americans also struggle with our heritage English words that
begin with an h. We say "honor" and "honest" and a few other words
unaspirated, but most are aspirated.)
| Quote: | You would expect they would pronounce it the same way they pronounce
can't,
to rhyme with pant.
Maybe, at one time, there was a great number of English Aunties in
America?
Canadians pronounce aunt rhyming with pant, unless they have an aunt in
the
Caribbean.
|
You plumb eluded me there. Can you elucidate? |
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David
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 2:04 pm
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
|
|
In article <20040923.2139.57922snz@dsl.co.uk>, Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
<bhk@dsl.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | On 23 Sep, in article <12716@purr.demon.co.uk> bogus@purr.demon.co.uk
"bogus address" wrote:
A friend of mine assured me that there was a place somewhere in the
Highlands whose name, first recorded by a non-Gaelic-speaking
surveyor, means "stick that telescope thing up your arse".
This seems akin to the supposed recordings of the words "llama" and
"budgerigar".
|
Yes, I have a talking budgie that tells my llama to "stick that
telescope thing up your arse" when it[1] starts getting randy.
[1] The llama. (Thought I'd better qualify which I meant for the
benefit of wandering mistrals.)
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/colour/
How seven spheres, and seven days, and seven earthy metals,
Their colours wind in endless maze, until all motion settles. |
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David
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 2:09 pm
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
|
|
In article <41538f4b$1$4054$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>, John Mazor
<mazorj@erols.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "Voicer" <Voicer@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
news:hjB4d.1712$Xh4.614@read1.cgocable.net...
One fascinating Americanism is the pronunciation of aunt.
Many American speakers including respected broadcaster Garrison
Kiellor pronounce this to rhyme with want, or taunt.
Why?
I struggled with this years ago, and concluded that it was to be
consistent with the universally accepted U.S. pronunciation of
"haunt" to rhyme with taunt.
|
How strange. Here it's pronounced much as is aren't but sometimes a bit
shorter, especially with older aunts.
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/gay/12-0.htm
Harry the Panda was awfully strong |
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Wanderer
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:33 pm
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
|
|
On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:04:54 +0100, David wrote:
<snip>
| Quote: | [1] The llama. (Thought I'd better qualify which I meant for the
benefit of wandering mistrals.)
|
Excellent! Delighted to see no trace of ambiguity there. Why, I think
therre might even be a sense of humour lurking somewhere.
--
wanderer at tesco dot net |
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David
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 8:07 pm
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
|
|
In article <i30dwu06d1b8$.1cz5iocq0dgnd.dlg@40tude.net>,
Wanderer <me@privacy.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:04:54 +0100, David wrote:
snip
[1] The llama. (Thought I'd better qualify which I meant for the
benefit of wandering mistrals.)
Excellent! Delighted to see no trace of ambiguity there. Why, I think
therre might even be a sense of humour lurking somewhere.
|
Oh, very dry!
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/photo/0y15-0.htm
The recently renovated South face of Rockingham's magnificent pyramidal folly at Wentworth |
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