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John Mazor
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:56 am
Post subject: American British pronunciations |
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I'm no Professor 'Iggens, but I have a lifelong interest in, and sensitivity
for local dialect pronunciations. I'm particularly fascinated with the
persistence of Elizabethan dialectic pronunciations that have been
documented in various backwater areas of the eastern United States. I
personally observed this in the 1970s when a local resident on the Eastern
Shore of Maryland essayed the following phrase describing a job offer that
paid "noine thewsand dawlers". It made an instant believer of me.
Anyway, years ago I noted that native residents of the Maryland area around
Washington, D.C. would pronounce the "u" in words such as bush as the oo in
"whoosh" (the oo drawn out as a long o-o-o). I figured it was some kind of
local colonial corruption, until I started hearing British news presenters
on BBC doing the same thing with "President Bush" as in "who-o-osh".
Can anyone comment on the British origins of this pronunciation?
-- John Mazor
"The search for wisdom is asymptotic."
"Except for Internet newsgroups, where it is divergent..."
-- R J Carpenter
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David
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:45 pm
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
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In article <414fb49e$0$2645$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>, John Mazor
<mazorj@erols.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I'm no Professor 'Iggens, but I have a lifelong interest in, and
sensitivity for local dialect pronunciations. I'm particularly
fascinated with the persistence of Elizabethan dialectic
pronunciations that have been documented in various backwater areas
of the eastern United States. I personally observed this in the
1970s when a local resident on the Eastern Shore of Maryland essayed
the following phrase describing a job offer that paid "noine thewsand
dawlers". It made an instant believer of me.
|
Yes, I've heard the "oi" pronunciation of "i" by characters pretending
to be English in US TV shows. It originally took me several episodes to
realise that these characters were supposed to be English and that that
particular strange accent wasn't just another of the many strange US
accents.
| Quote: | Anyway, years ago I noted that native residents of the Maryland area
around Washington, D.C. would pronounce the "u" in words such as bush
as the oo in "whoosh" (the oo drawn out as a long o-o-o). I figured
it was some kind of local colonial corruption, until I started
hearing British news presenters on BBC doing the same thing with
"President Bush" as in "who-o-osh".
|
British news presenters on the Beeb exhibit different accents; many of
them aren't even English.
| Quote: | Can anyone comment on the British origins of this pronunciation?
|
Something I've never heard. I have, however, heard "Colin" pronounced
as "Cohlin".
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/colour/2g-0.htm
Green Magic
Left Nostril of Ishtar
Genitals in the Clay of Death |
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Andy
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:22 pm
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
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David wrote:
| Quote: | In article <414fb49e$0$2645$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>, John Mazor
mazorj@erols.com> wrote:
I'm no Professor 'Iggens, but I have a lifelong interest in, and
sensitivity for local dialect pronunciations. I'm particularly
fascinated with the persistence of Elizabethan dialectic
pronunciations that have been documented in various backwater areas
of the eastern United States. I personally observed this in the
1970s when a local resident on the Eastern Shore of Maryland essayed
the following phrase describing a job offer that paid "noine thewsand
dawlers". It made an instant believer of me.
Yes, I've heard the "oi" pronunciation of "i" by characters pretending
to be English in US TV shows. It originally took me several episodes to
realise that these characters were supposed to be English and that that
particular strange accent wasn't just another of the many strange US
accents.
Anyway, years ago I noted that native residents of the Maryland area
around Washington, D.C. would pronounce the "u" in words such as bush
as the oo in "whoosh" (the oo drawn out as a long o-o-o). I figured
it was some kind of local colonial corruption, until I started
hearing British news presenters on BBC doing the same thing with
"President Bush" as in "who-o-osh".
British news presenters on the Beeb exhibit different accents; many of
them aren't even English.
Can anyone comment on the British origins of this pronunciation?
Something I've never heard. I have, however, heard "Colin" pronounced
as "Cohlin".
I have never thought about it (the reason for it might be that I'm |
Swedish) but they are interesting questions and I will certainly listen
more carefully in the future when watching Fox News and BBC (which are
the only two TV channels my cable company delivers.)
However, can the same pattern be seen in TV shows or Drama productions?
Here in Sweden they broadcast a lot of both American shows (mainly these
louse reality shows) and British productions (most often Mrs Marple-like
stories).
//Andy
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Wanderer
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 8:08 pm
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
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On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:45:18 +0100, David wrote:
<snip>
| Quote: | British news presenters on the Beeb exhibit different accents; many of
them aren't even English.
|
That's a rather sweeping, and possibly quite incorrect, statement to
make. And why the distinction between British and English?
--
wanderer at tesco dot net |
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John Dean
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:08 pm
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
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David wrote:
| Quote: | In article <414fb49e$0$2645$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>, John Mazor
mazorj@erols.com> wrote:
I'm no Professor 'Iggens, but I have a lifelong interest in, and
sensitivity for local dialect pronunciations. I'm particularly
fascinated with the persistence of Elizabethan dialectic
pronunciations that have been documented in various backwater areas
of the eastern United States. I personally observed this in the
1970s when a local resident on the Eastern Shore of Maryland essayed
the following phrase describing a job offer that paid "noine thewsand
dawlers". It made an instant believer of me.
Yes, I've heard the "oi" pronunciation of "i" by characters pretending
to be English in US TV shows. It originally took me several episodes
to realise that these characters were supposed to be English and that
that particular strange accent wasn't just another of the many
strange US accents.
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Bloimey, Mary Pawpins! That's a bit 'arsh!
--
John Dean
Oxford |
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David
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:09 pm
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
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In article <11772qgxvk6ts.82jrpmmg51o3$.dlg@40tude.net>, Wanderer
<me@privacy.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:45:18 +0100, David wrote:
snip
British news presenters on the Beeb exhibit different accents; many
of them aren't even English.
That's a rather sweeping, and possibly quite incorrect, statement to
make. And why the distinction between British and English?
|
How is it sweeping, and how possibly quite incorrect?
What distinction?
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/colour/3c-0.htm
Cyan Magic
Left Eye of Sin
Left Foot in the Depth of the Earth |
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Rob Kerr
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:50 pm
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
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"David" <david@dacha.freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:4cf1f41396david@dacha.freeuk.com...
| Quote: | In article <11772qgxvk6ts.82jrpmmg51o3$.dlg@40tude.net>, Wanderer
me@privacy.net> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:45:18 +0100, David wrote:
snip
British news presenters on the Beeb exhibit different accents; many
of them aren't even English.
That's a rather sweeping, and possibly quite incorrect, statement to
make. And why the distinction between British and English?
How is it sweeping, and how possibly quite incorrect?
|
I can't think of a single non-British presenter (though there are a few
Irish presenters, Terry Wogan springing immediately to mind).
Between the Britishness of the presenters and the Englishness of their
accents -- the antecedent to "them" in your last statement is unclear,
and could refer to the accents or the presenters themselves.
Rob Kerr |
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Wanderer
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:34 am
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
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On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:09:53 +0100, David wrote:
| Quote: | In article <11772qgxvk6ts.82jrpmmg51o3$.dlg@40tude.net>, Wanderer
me@privacy.net> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:45:18 +0100, David wrote:
snip
British news presenters on the Beeb exhibit different accents; many
of them aren't even English.
That's a rather sweeping, and possibly quite incorrect, statement to
make. And why the distinction between British and English?
How is it sweeping, and how possibly quite incorrect?
|
Are you talking about the presenters or their accents? It certainly
isn't clear from your comments. If you are talking about presenters, how
are you able to assert that 'many of them aren't even English'?
You talk about 'British' news presenters but 'English' accents. What is,
what defines an 'English' accent? Is a Tyneside accent any less English
than a Brummie accent or an Estuary accent?
Every news (and weather) presenter I can bring to mind speaks in very
clear and easily understood English, that is far more important than the
accent they use.
--
wanderer at tesco dot net |
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David
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:37 am
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
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In article <cipm5d$nqu$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>, Rob Kerr
<robert.kerr@bbc.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | "David" <david@dacha.freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:4cf1f41396david@dacha.freeuk.com...
In article <11772qgxvk6ts.82jrpmmg51o3$.dlg@40tude.net>, Wanderer
me@privacy.net> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:45:18 +0100, David wrote:
snip
British news presenters on the Beeb exhibit different accents;
many of them aren't even English.
That's a rather sweeping, and possibly quite incorrect, statement
to make. And why the distinction between British and English?
How is it sweeping, and how possibly quite incorrect?
I can't think of a single non-British presenter (though there are a
few Irish presenters, Terry Wogan springing immediately to mind).
|
Did I make reference to non-British presenters? I don't think so.
| Quote: | What distinction?
Between the Britishness of the presenters and the Englishness of
their accents -- the antecedent to "them" in your last statement is
unclear, and could refer to the accents or the presenters themselves.
|
How true.
As to why I emphasised English? Well, Mr Mazor asked about American
British pronunciations but I believe most sincerely that he wasn't too
concerned with British Welsh, Gaelic, Manx, Cornish, (and any others
I've forgotten about,) but with English.
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/free/
Free Software: !Jcut
- JPEG Cut & Paste, Transform, Contrast & Colour Tweaking |
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David
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:48 am
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
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In article <1dx9j50oalq1n$.2pf1a7cknkmq.dlg@40tude.net>, Wanderer
<me@privacy.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:09:53 +0100, David wrote:
In article <11772qgxvk6ts.82jrpmmg51o3$.dlg@40tude.net>, Wanderer
me@privacy.net> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:45:18 +0100, David wrote:
snip
British news presenters on the Beeb exhibit different accents;
many of them aren't even English.
That's a rather sweeping, and possibly quite incorrect, statement
to make. And why the distinction between British and English?
How is it sweeping, and how possibly quite incorrect?
Are you talking about the presenters or their accents? It certainly
isn't clear from your comments. If you are talking about presenters,
how are you able to assert that 'many of them aren't even English'?
|
Because they aren't; some are Welsh; some are Scottis; Some are Irish;
and I dare say there are even other nationalities.
| Quote: | What distinction?
You talk about 'British' news presenters but 'English' accents. What
is, what defines an 'English' accent? Is a Tyneside accent any less
English than a Brummie accent or an Estuary accent?
|
No but a Glaswegian accent is certainly less English than any of those
you've mentioned.
| Quote: | Every news (and weather) presenter I can bring to mind speaks in very
clear and easily understood English, that is far more important than
the accent they use.
|
You haven't lived.
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/wfolly/3kc0-0.htm
Keppel's Column: The Eastern Door |
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Wanderer
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 2:54 am
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
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On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:37:54 +0100, David wrote:
| Quote: | In article <cipm5d$nqu$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>, Rob Kerr
robert.kerr@bbc.co.uk> wrote:
"David" <david@dacha.freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:4cf1f41396david@dacha.freeuk.com...
In article <11772qgxvk6ts.82jrpmmg51o3$.dlg@40tude.net>, Wanderer
me@privacy.net> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:45:18 +0100, David wrote:
snip
British news presenters on the Beeb exhibit different accents;
many of them aren't even English.
That's a rather sweeping, and possibly quite incorrect, statement
to make. And why the distinction between British and English?
How is it sweeping, and how possibly quite incorrect?
I can't think of a single non-British presenter (though there are a
few Irish presenters, Terry Wogan springing immediately to mind).
Did I make reference to non-British presenters? I don't think so.
|
You're wriggling.
| Quote: |
What distinction?
Between the Britishness of the presenters and the Englishness of
their accents -- the antecedent to "them" in your last statement is
unclear, and could refer to the accents or the presenters themselves.
How true.
As to why I emphasised English? Well, Mr Mazor asked about American
British pronunciations but I believe most sincerely that he wasn't too
concerned with British Welsh, Gaelic, Manx, Cornish, (and any others
I've forgotten about,) but with English.
|
You're still wriggling.........
--
wanderer at tesco dot net |
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David
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:10 am
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
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In article <1lijroc5zf9e7.ehmdlkunzxjx.dlg@40tude.net>, Wanderer
<me@privacy.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:37:54 +0100, David wrote:
In article <cipm5d$nqu$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk>, Rob Kerr
robert.kerr@bbc.co.uk> wrote:
"David" <david@dacha.freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:4cf1f41396david@dacha.freeuk.com...
In article <11772qgxvk6ts.82jrpmmg51o3$.dlg@40tude.net>, Wanderer
me@privacy.net> wrote:
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:45:18 +0100, David wrote:
snip
British news presenters on the Beeb exhibit different
accents; many of them aren't even English.
That's a rather sweeping, and possibly quite incorrect,
statement to make. And why the distinction between British and
English?
How is it sweeping, and how possibly quite incorrect?
I can't think of a single non-British presenter (though there are
a few Irish presenters, Terry Wogan springing immediately to mind).
Did I make reference to non-British presenters? I don't think so.
You're wriggling.
|
Curious? I wonder why you think I'm wriggling? Maybe it's because your
response was really quite out of order. I certainly didn't make any
reference whatsoever to non-British presenters. Perhaps you're one of
those who have yet to understand the concept of Britishness when
compared to Englishness?
| Quote: |
What distinction?
Between the Britishness of the presenters and the Englishness of
their accents -- the antecedent to "them" in your last statement
is unclear, and could refer to the accents or the presenters
themselves.
How true.
As to why I emphasised English? Well, Mr Mazor asked about American
British pronunciations but I believe most sincerely that he wasn't
too concerned with British Welsh, Gaelic, Manx, Cornish, (and any
others I've forgotten about,) but with English.
You're still wriggling.........
|
Really? I think you've only now seen how preposterous your response was
(vis-a-vis "non-British" presenters) and, scared of losing face, are
attempting to give the impression that my position is unsteady; it is
as firm as a rock.
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/yds/abt-0.htm
The Yorkshire Dialect Society: Badges & Ties |
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Luke
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:27 am
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
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John Mazor wrote:
| Quote: | Anyway, years ago I noted that native residents of the Maryland area around
Washington, D.C. would pronounce the "u" in words such as bush as the oo in
"whoosh" (the oo drawn out as a long o-o-o). I figured it was some kind of
local colonial corruption, until I started hearing British news presenters
on BBC doing the same thing with "President Bush" as in "who-o-osh".
|
I *think* Gavin Essler says something resembling "Boosh" but most of
them rhyme it with "push".
Does anyone know Gavin's accent, by the way?
-Luke |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:37 am
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
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On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:27:25 +0100, Luke <lpgmx@f2s.com> wrote:
| Quote: | John Mazor wrote:
Anyway, years ago I noted that native residents of the Maryland area around
Washington, D.C. would pronounce the "u" in words such as bush as the oo in
"whoosh" (the oo drawn out as a long o-o-o). I figured it was some kind of
local colonial corruption, until I started hearing British news presenters
on BBC doing the same thing with "President Bush" as in "who-o-osh".
I *think* Gavin Essler says something resembling "Boosh" but most of
them rhyme it with "push".
Does anyone know Gavin's accent, by the way?
Scottish |
--
Peter Duncanson
UK
(posting from u.c.l.e) |
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Doug C
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:40 am
Post subject: Re: American British pronunciations |
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"Wanderer" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:11772qgxvk6ts.82jrpmmg51o3$.dlg@40tude.net...
| Quote: | On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:45:18 +0100, David wrote:
snip
British news presenters on the Beeb exhibit different accents; many of
them aren't even English.
That's a rather sweeping, and possibly quite incorrect, statement to
make. And why the distinction between British and English?
Some of them are Scottish, some Welsh, etc: all of whom are British, but who |
would be offended to hear their accents described as English. Then there are
also regional English accents.
--
Doug
--
brain under construction |
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