| Author |
Message |
lightbulb
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:14 am
Post subject: Re: disinteresting [WAS: Salute to the flag of USA was NAZI |
|
|
"R J Valentine" <rj@TheWorld.com> wrote in message
news:d1097k$ned$1@pcls4.std.com...
| Quote: | From: R J Valentine <rj@TheWorld.com
Subject: Re: disinteresting [WAS: Salute to the flag of USA was NAZI
salute]
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
References: <1110586037.035511.61490@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com
kEuYd.576$S86.58@fe02.lga> <39fclaF5vnllfU1@individual.net |
<vVvYd.2949$9E7.2743@fe03.lga>
<jZvYd.1562$qW.389@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>
<d0u2p8$a16$1@pcls4.std.com> <1gtby5o.kaym2k805y7yN%trio@euronet.nl>
| Quote: | Organization: TheWorld.com
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 22:14:52 +0100 Donna Richoux <trio@euronet.nl> wrote:
} R J Valentine <rj@TheWorld.com> wrote:
}
}> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 06:27:27 GMT Martin Ambuhl <mambuhl@earthlink.net
wrote:
}
}> } lightbulb wrote:
}> }> "Areff" <me@privacy.net> wrote
}> }
}> }>>lightbulb wrote:
}> }>>>Is there an award for Most Disinteresting Post?
}> }
}> }>>Oy!
}> }
}> }> That's proper awardspeak. And "disinteresting" is exactly what I
meant.
}> }
}> } It avoids another "I could/couldn't care less" thread.
}
}> How is that different from Most Uninteresting Post, if that's what it
}> avoids. How does the post make him neutral about a contested issue if
}> not?
}
}> The question was well-Oy!ed.
}
} Maybe lightbulb knew that "disinteresting" would distract us from the
} previous discussion, and for that reason was exactly what he meant.
}
} I don't think that you can have a disinteresting *anything*, in the
} classical sense. It's not transitive, and it's usually used as an
} adjective -- you can be disinterested, by having no financial stake
} (interest) in an outcome, but you really don't disinterest a thing.
}
} Now, just a month ago I was trying to think of examples of verbs that
} are usually in the "to be Xed" form instead of "to X". Will I remember
} this, next time I need one? I doubt it.
}
} As I said, I'm discussing the classical sense. The merging with
} "uninterested" is probably accepted now, even by conservative
} dictionaries.
Yeah, but did you notice how a well-Oy!ed English usage can bring in even
the eternally disinterested (in the classical sense) Donna Richoux?
|
I stand by that usage. I said exactly what I meant to say. I provided
definitions and my rationale in another post or two to this thread.
Mike G. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Charles Riggs
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:25 pm
Post subject: Re: disinteresting [WAS: Salute to the flag of USA was NAZI |
|
|
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 22:22:32 -0500, "lightbulb"
<lightbulb@chartermi.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
"R J Valentine" <rj@TheWorld.com> wrote in message
news:d1097k$ned$1@pcls4.std.com...
Yeah, but did you notice how a well-Oy!ed English usage can bring in even
the eternally disinterested (in the classical sense) Donna Richoux?
|
Few would want to see her riled, so disinterested remains her safest
state for all our sakes.
| Quote: | I stand by that usage. I said exactly what I meant to say. I provided
definitions and my rationale in another post or two to this thread.
|
Careful, Mike. This dangerously borders on doing The Coop, a dance
that allows for no admitted errors.
--
Charles Riggs
There are no accented letters in my email address |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lightbulb
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:42 am
Post subject: Re: disinteresting [WAS: Salute to the flag of USA was NAZI |
|
|
"Charles Riggs" <chriggs@éircom.net> wrote in message
news:5aq731h83iaa02o9qv9cbimmd64vftasm0@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 22:22:32 -0500, "lightbulb"
lightbulb@chartermi.net> wrote:
I stand by that usage. I said exactly what I meant to say. I provided
definitions and my rationale in another post or two to this thread.
Careful, Mike. This dangerously borders on doing The Coop, a dance
that allows for no admitted errors.
--
|
I happily admit errors. "Disinteresting" wasn't an error. I'm sure I
provide many opportunities for correction, but if I'm not wrong, I'm going
to stick to my guns. I don't want to discourage people from making
corrections in the future.
Mike G. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mickwick
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:56 am
Post subject: Re: skippable rant -- you've been warned |
|
|
In alt.usage.english, Ronbo wrote:
| Quote: | Sat, 12 Mar 2005 19:17:39 +0000, Mickwick <mickwick@use.reply.to
Nazism's real roots were in German Romanticism.)
Perhaps, but the filthy Frogs and their greedy strutting at Versailles
provided all the dung.
|
You won't be moving to Quebec, then.
--
Mickwick |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lightbulb
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:10 am
Post subject: Re: Salute to the flag of USA was NAZI salute |
|
|
"Pat Durkin" <durkinpa@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:5a7Zd.3490$qW.69@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: |
"lightbulb" <lightbulb@chartermi.net> wrote in message
news:1rxYd.18076$Ye3.3962@fe07.lga...
"R J Valentine" <rj@TheWorld.com> wrote in message
news:d0u2p8$a16$1@pcls4.std.com...
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 06:27:27 GMT Martin Ambuhl <mambuhl@earthlink.net
wrote:
} lightbulb wrote:
}> "Areff" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
}> news:39fclaF5vnllfU1@individual.net...
}
}>>lightbulb wrote:
}>>>Is there an award for Most Disinteresting Post?
}
}>>Oy!
}
}> That's proper awardspeak. And "disinteresting" is exactly what I
meant.
}
} It avoids another "I could/couldn't care less" thread.
How is that different from Most Uninteresting Post, if that's what it
avoids. How does the post make him neutral about a contested issue if
not?
The question was well-Oy!ed.
--
Let's check The Dictionary. Maybe we can find exactly what I found when
I
double-checked before posting. Yup yup.
http://www.m-w.com/
Main Entry: 1dis·in·ter·est
Pronunciation:
(")dis-'in-tr&st; -'in-t&-"rest, -t&-r&st, -t&rst; -'in-"trest
Function: transitive verb
: to cause to regard something with no interest or concern
To me, "no interest or concern" means a lack of willingness or ability to
take sides or take part in a matter that may be very entertaining or
"grabbing" of my attention. Impartial.
|
You're thinking of "disinterested party", a mediator, arbiter, something
like that: someone who has no interest in either side of a dispute. I'm
thinking of a less specific usage, and a different sense of the word. I'm
using "disinteresting", not "disinterested."
| Quote: | Main Entry: un·in·ter·est
Pronunciation:
"&n-'in-tr&st; -'in-t&-r&st, -t&-"rest, -t&rst; -'in-"trest
Function: noun
: lack of interest
I would consider this a synonym of "boring", lacking anything that in any
way grabs my attention
|
Exactly. That is why it doesn't fit with what I was saying. I was not
calling the post boring. I was intending to show that the post did a
disservice to the topics it presented. Its the same idea as when one is a
student and has an inspired, talented physics teacher. Physics itself will
then for some students become interesting, because of how it is presented.
One could describe such a class as interesting. Conversely, those who have
terrible, uninspired English teachers will inevitably become uninterested in
the subject of English. One could call such a class "uninteresting" because
attending the class is not interesting. One could call the class
"disinteresting", because it *caused* its students to henceforth have no
interest in the subject of English.
Mike G. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Charles Riggs
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:11 am
Post subject: Re: Salute to the flag of USA was NAZI salute |
|
|
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 03:03:29 GMT, "Pat Durkin" <durkinpa@peoplepc.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | To me, "no interest or concern" means a lack of willingness or ability to
take sides or take part in a matter that may be very entertaining or
"grabbing" of my attention. Impartial.
|
Do people in your part of the world often have their attentions
'grabbed' nowadays? I haven't heard that one for thirty years or more;
I found this parochial -- is 'hickish' a word? -- example of American
English quite entertaining, even if of little concern to me.
--
Charles Riggs
There are no accented letters in my email address |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Charles Riggs
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:11 am
Post subject: Re: disinteresting [WAS: Salute to the flag of USA was NAZI |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 16:42:52 -0500, "lightbulb"
<lightbulb@chartermi.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Charles Riggs" <chriggs@éircom.net> wrote in message
news:5aq731h83iaa02o9qv9cbimmd64vftasm0@4ax.com...
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 22:22:32 -0500, "lightbulb"
lightbulb@chartermi.net> wrote:
I stand by that usage. I said exactly what I meant to say. I provided
definitions and my rationale in another post or two to this thread.
Careful, Mike. This dangerously borders on doing The Coop, a dance
that allows for no admitted errors.
I happily admit errors. "Disinteresting" wasn't an error. I'm sure I
provide many opportunities for correction, but if I'm not wrong, I'm going
to stick to my guns. I don't want to discourage people from making
corrections in the future.
|
Good plan, for the last person here you'd want to emulate is that most
horrible of human beings T**y C**per, a person with the morals of a
weasel. Rey isn't around these days, so it is incumbent upon me to
periodically point this out.
Something to be aware of is that while he makes a good first
impression, as salesmen are trained to do above all else, you'll
eventually -- sooner, if insightful -- find that under this thin
veneer lurks a demon worthy to feature in the least pleasant of your
dreams. If you attend to his words for too long, you risk losing the
respect for humankind you once had, so please don't, two or three
years from now, say I didn't warn you.
--
Charles Riggs
There are no accented letters in my email address |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Pat Durkin
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:11 am
Post subject: Re: Salute to the flag of USA was NAZI salute |
|
|
"lightbulb" <lightbulb@chartermi.net> wrote in message
news:1rxYd.18076$Ye3.3962@fe07.lga...
| Quote: |
"R J Valentine" <rj@TheWorld.com> wrote in message
news:d0u2p8$a16$1@pcls4.std.com...
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 06:27:27 GMT Martin Ambuhl <mambuhl@earthlink.net
wrote:
} lightbulb wrote:
}> "Areff" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
}> news:39fclaF5vnllfU1@individual.net...
}
}>>lightbulb wrote:
}>>>Is there an award for Most Disinteresting Post?
}
}>>Oy!
}
}> That's proper awardspeak. And "disinteresting" is exactly what I
meant.
}
} It avoids another "I could/couldn't care less" thread.
How is that different from Most Uninteresting Post, if that's what it
avoids. How does the post make him neutral about a contested issue if
not?
The question was well-Oy!ed.
--
Let's check The Dictionary. Maybe we can find exactly what I found when I
double-checked before posting. Yup yup.
http://www.m-w.com/
Main Entry: 1dis·in·ter·est
Pronunciation:
(")dis-'in-tr&st; -'in-t&-"rest, -t&-r&st, -t&rst; -'in-"trest
Function: transitive verb
: to cause to regard something with no interest or concern
|
To me, "no interest or concern" means a lack of willingness or ability to
take sides or take part in a matter that may be very entertaining or
"grabbing" of my attention. Impartial.
| Quote: |
Main Entry: un·in·ter·est
Pronunciation: "&n-'in-tr&st; -'in-t&-r&st, -t&-"rest, -t&rst; -'in-"trest
Function: noun
: lack of interest
|
I would consider this a synonym of "boring", lacking anything that in any
way grabs my attention
> |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Donna Richoux
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:15 pm
Post subject: disinteresting [WAS: Salute to the flag of USA was NAZI salu |
|
|
lightbulb <lightbulb@chartermi.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Exactly. That is why it doesn't fit with what I was saying. I was not
calling the post boring. I was intending to show that the post did a
disservice to the topics it presented. Its the same idea as when one is a
student and has an inspired, talented physics teacher. Physics itself will
then for some students become interesting, because of how it is presented.
One could describe such a class as interesting.
Conversely, those who have
terrible, uninspired English teachers will inevitably become uninterested in
the subject of English. One could call such a class "uninteresting" because
attending the class is not interesting. One could call the class
"disinteresting", because it *caused* its students to henceforth have no
interest in the subject of English.
|
Oh, a turn-off. I guess there is no adjectival form of "That lecture
really turned me off; that was a XXXXXX lecture." "Off-putting,"
perhaps, although that still sounds jocular. Perhaps "off-turning" waits
in the wings.
My next question is, did you make this up, or have you seen
"disinteresting" used this way by others?
--
Best -- Donna Richoux |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lightbulb
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:23 pm
Post subject: Re: disinteresting [WAS: Salute to the flag of USA was NAZI |
|
|
"Donna Richoux" <trio@euronet.nl> wrote in message
news:1gtezwd.an803f11ci32eN%trio@euronet.nl...
| Quote: | lightbulb <lightbulb@chartermi.net> wrote:
Exactly. That is why it doesn't fit with what I was saying. I was not
calling the post boring. I was intending to show that the post did a
disservice to the topics it presented. Its the same idea as when one is
a
student and has an inspired, talented physics teacher. Physics itself
will
then for some students become interesting, because of how it is
presented.
One could describe such a class as interesting.
Conversely, those who have
terrible, uninspired English teachers will inevitably become
uninterested in
the subject of English. One could call such a class "uninteresting"
because
attending the class is not interesting. One could call the class
"disinteresting", because it *caused* its students to henceforth have no
interest in the subject of English.
Oh, a turn-off. I guess there is no adjectival form of "That lecture
really turned me off; that was a XXXXXX lecture." "Off-putting,"
perhaps, although that still sounds jocular. Perhaps "off-turning" waits
in the wings.
My next question is, did you make this up, or have you seen
"disinteresting" used this way by others?
|
Its pure Merriam-Webster. I lay no claim.
Main Entry: 1dis·in·ter·est
Pronunciation:
(")dis-'in-tr&st; -'in-t&-"rest, -t&-r&st, -t&rst; -'in-"trest
Function: transitive verb
: to cause to regard something with no interest or concern
Mike G. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Donna Richoux
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:49 pm
Post subject: Re: disinteresting [WAS: Salute to the flag of USA was NAZI |
|
|
lightbulb <lightbulb@chartermi.net> wrote:
| Quote: | "Donna Richoux" <trio@euronet.nl> wrote in message
news:1gtezwd.an803f11ci32eN%trio@euronet.nl...
lightbulb <lightbulb@chartermi.net> wrote:
|
[snip re "disinteresting"]
| Quote: | Oh, a turn-off. I guess there is no adjectival form of "That lecture
really turned me off; that was a XXXXXX lecture." "Off-putting,"
perhaps, although that still sounds jocular. Perhaps "off-turning" waits
in the wings.
My next question is, did you make this up, or have you seen
"disinteresting" used this way by others?
Its pure Merriam-Webster. I lay no claim.
|
Well, now, I don't read that M-W as necessarily meaning "to turn others
off of something."
Anyway, I thought maybe you had actually heard it used, perhaps by
younger people. Something had to prompt you to use it *before* you
looked it up.
| Quote: |
Main Entry: 1dis·in·ter·est
Pronunciation:
(")dis-'in-tr&st; -'in-t&-"rest, -t&-r&st, -t&rst; -'in-"trest
Function: transitive verb
: to cause to regard something with no interest or concern
|
I'm sure I already discussed that. The problem with certain dictionary
entries is that they don't show you how the word is usually *used*, and
there are certain verbs that are almost always in the "I was Xed"
format, not the "I Xed something" format. I suspect this is one of them.
....I don't find any current hits for "he disinterested" something or
someone. The only one I find anything like it is from a 1917 lecture:
it was not strange that he disinterested himself
from the metaphysical celestial mechanics of his
time and concentrated his attention upon the
geometrical hypotheses by means of which he could
hope to resolve into uniform revolutions in circular
orbits the anomalous motions of the planetary bodies.
So that says it was used in the reflexive form, anyway: "he
disinterested himself."
("Disinterested" is a hard word to type; I keep writing "dist" like
"distinction."
--
Best -- Donna Richoux |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:53 pm
Post subject: Re: disinteresting [WAS: Salute to the flag of USA was NAZI |
|
|
lightbulb wrote:
| Quote: | "Donna Richoux" <trio@euronet.nl> wrote in message
news:1gtezwd.an803f11ci32eN%trio@euronet.nl...
lightbulb <lightbulb@chartermi.net> wrote:
Exactly. That is why it doesn't fit with what I was saying. I
was
not calling the post boring. I was intending to show that the
post
did a disservice to the topics it presented. Its the same idea
as
when one is a student and has an inspired, talented physics
teacher. Physics itself will then for some students become
interesting, because of how it is presented. One could describe
such a class as interesting.
Conversely, those who have
terrible, uninspired English teachers will inevitably become
uninterested in the subject of English. One could call such a
class "uninteresting" because attending the class is not
interesting. One could call the class "disinteresting", because
it
*caused* its students to henceforth have no interest in the
subject
of English.
Oh, a turn-off. I guess there is no adjectival form of "That
lecture
really turned me off; that was a XXXXXX lecture." "Off-putting,"
perhaps, although that still sounds jocular. Perhaps "off-turning"
waits in the wings.
My next question is, did you make this up, or have you seen
"disinteresting" used this way by others?
Its pure Merriam-Webster. I lay no claim.
Main Entry: 1dis·in·ter·est
Pronunciation:
(")dis-'in-tr&st; -'in-t&-"rest, -t&-r&st, -t&rst; -'in-"trest
Function: transitive verb
to cause to regard something with no interest or concern
|
It's still very far from stylish, and isn't really practical as it
would need explanation every time one used it.
I can see that "discouraging", "uninspiring", "disenchanting", etc
don't do the job; but I'm reluctant to admit just yet that I can't
think of a word which does. But, on the other hand, I wonder if there
isn't a word because we don't need one in practice: how often do we
want to say "which actively discouraged any interest in the subject"?
We have no single word for "which caused me to become interested in
the subject" -- though "inspiring" can come close.
--
Mike. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ross Howard
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:35 pm
Post subject: Re: disinteresting [WAS: Salute to the flag of USA was NAZI |
|
|
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:53:41 -0000, "Mike Lyle"
<mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrought:
| Quote: | lightbulb wrote:
"Donna Richoux" <trio@euronet.nl> wrote in message
news:1gtezwd.an803f11ci32eN%trio@euronet.nl...
lightbulb <lightbulb@chartermi.net> wrote:
Exactly. That is why it doesn't fit with what I was saying. I
was
not calling the post boring. I was intending to show that the
post
did a disservice to the topics it presented. Its the same idea
as
when one is a student and has an inspired, talented physics
teacher. Physics itself will then for some students become
interesting, because of how it is presented. One could describe
such a class as interesting.
Conversely, those who have
terrible, uninspired English teachers will inevitably become
uninterested in the subject of English. One could call such a
class "uninteresting" because attending the class is not
interesting. One could call the class "disinteresting", because
it
*caused* its students to henceforth have no interest in the
subject
of English.
Oh, a turn-off. I guess there is no adjectival form of "That
lecture
really turned me off; that was a XXXXXX lecture." "Off-putting,"
perhaps, although that still sounds jocular. Perhaps "off-turning"
waits in the wings.
My next question is, did you make this up, or have you seen
"disinteresting" used this way by others?
Its pure Merriam-Webster. I lay no claim.
Main Entry: 1dis·in·ter·est
Pronunciation:
(")dis-'in-tr&st; -'in-t&-"rest, -t&-r&st, -t&rst; -'in-"trest
Function: transitive verb
to cause to regard something with no interest or concern
It's still very far from stylish, and isn't really practical as it
would need explanation every time one used it.
I can see that "discouraging", "uninspiring", "disenchanting", etc
don't do the job; but I'm reluctant to admit just yet that I can't
think of a word which does. But, on the other hand, I wonder if there
isn't a word because we don't need one in practice: how often do we
want to say "which actively discouraged any interest in the subject"?
|
How about "offturning"?
--
Ross Howard |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ross Howard
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:37 pm
Post subject: Re: disinteresting [WAS: Salute to the flag of USA was NAZI |
|
|
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:35:18 +0100, Ross Howard <gguiri@yahoo.com>
wrought:
[snip -- which I should have done in the reply I'm rereplying to now]
| Quote: | I can see that "discouraging", "uninspiring", "disenchanting", etc
don't do the job; but I'm reluctant to admit just yet that I can't
think of a word which does. But, on the other hand, I wonder if there
isn't a word because we don't need one in practice: how often do we
want to say "which actively discouraged any interest in the subject"?
How about "offturning"?
|
Or even a proper word -- "offputting"?
--
Ross Howard |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Josh Norther
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:22 pm
Post subject: Re: disinteresting [WAS: Salute to the flag of USA was NAZI |
|
|
Donna Richoux wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | I'm sure I already discussed that. The problem with certain dictionary
entries is that they don't show you how the word is usually *used*, and
there are certain verbs that are almost always in the "I was Xed"
format, not the "I Xed something" format. I suspect this is one of them.
...I don't find any current hits for "he disinterested" something or
someone. The only one I find anything like it is from a 1917 lecture:
it was not strange that he disinterested himself
from the metaphysical celestial mechanics of his
time and concentrated his attention upon the
geometrical hypotheses by means of which he could
hope to resolve into uniform revolutions in circular
orbits the anomalous motions of the planetary bodies.
So that says it was used in the reflexive form, anyway: "he
disinterested himself."
|
"Disinteresting" can be found in the 1913 Webster Unabridged dictionary
at:
http://simplestartpage.com/Disinteresting.html_2313Di
| Quote: | ("Disinterested" is a hard word to type; I keep writing "dist" like
"distinction."
|
The same URL also shows common misspellings of "disinteresting".
--
Josh Norther
(For e-mail replace the asterisks with the first four prime numbers) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in