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Molly Mockford
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:58 pm
Post subject: Re: "If you are a tall man, like I am, ..." -- facially nons |
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At 11:02:47 on Sun, 13 Jun 2004, John Briggs <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com>
wrote in <lvWyc.253$Ee2.47@newsfe4-gui>:
| Quote: | Peter T. Daniels wrote:
John Briggs wrote:
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
The English for that would be "If you're a tall man like me, ..."
Or "If you are a tall man, as I am, ..."
No. That's impossibly stilted and doesn't communicate the same thing at
all.
The same thing as what? I thought we were trying to turn the original
utterance ("If you are a tall man, like I am, ...") into English - which I
have done with minimal alteration.
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I'd be inclined to go for "When a man is as tall as I am..."
--
Molly Mockford
I think I've been too long on my own, but the little green goblin that
lives under the sink says I'm OK - and he's never wrong, so I must be!
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)
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Peter T. Daniels
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:26 pm
Post subject: Re: "If you are a tall man, like I am, ..." -- facially nons |
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John Briggs wrote:
| Quote: |
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
John Briggs wrote:
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
T. Z. wrote:
A while ago, I found myself uttering to someone
the following sentence, and feeling a little confused
while saying it.
"If you are a tall man, like I am, ..."
(you find yourself searching for clothes that fit.)
(I struggle to find clothes that fit.)
(it's hard to find clothes off the rack.)
____(I said this to a woman!)____
(You'd understand my confusion if you actually say it
to someone who's not a tall man.)
_____________________________
Are there similar utterances in other European
languages?
German, French, Spanish, etc.
The English for that would be "If you're a tall man like me, ..."
Or "If you are a tall man, as I am, ..."
No. That's impossibly stilted and doesn't communicate the same thing at
all.
The same thing as what? I thought we were trying to turn the original
utterance ("If you are a tall man, like I am, ...") into English - which I
have done with minimal alteration.
|
I thought we were trying to communicate the nuances of a particular
thought, not just come up with grammatical sentences of similar purport
to the original.
--
Peter T. Daniels grammatim@att.net |
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:54 pm
Post subject: Re: "If you are a tall man, like I am, ..." -- facially nons |
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Peter T. Daniels wrote:
| Quote: | John Briggs wrote:
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
John Briggs wrote:
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
T. Z. wrote:
A while ago, I found myself uttering to someone
the following sentence, and feeling a little confused
while saying it.
"If you are a tall man, like I am, ..."
(you find yourself searching for clothes that fit.)
(I struggle to find clothes that fit.)
(it's hard to find clothes off the rack.)
____(I said this to a woman!)____
(You'd understand my confusion if you actually say it
to someone who's not a tall man.)
_____________________________
Are there similar utterances in other European
languages?
German, French, Spanish, etc.
The English for that would be "If you're a tall man like me, ..."
Or "If you are a tall man, as I am, ..."
No. That's impossibly stilted and doesn't communicate the same thing at
all.
The same thing as what? I thought we were trying to turn the original
utterance ("If you are a tall man, like I am, ...") into English - which
I have done with minimal alteration.
I thought we were trying to communicate the nuances of a particular
thought, not just come up with grammatical sentences of similar purport
to the original.
|
I'll settle for grammatical :-)
I thought we were translating the original utterance into English, in order
to determine what the thought actually was.
--
John Briggs
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Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:34 am
Post subject: Re: "If you are a tall man, like I am, ..." -- facially nons |
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On Friday, in article <40CA3943.5633@worldnet.att.net>
grammatim@worldnet.att.net "Peter T. Daniels" wrote:
| Quote: | The English for that would be "If you're a tall man like me, ..."
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As the polar bear[1] said to the fox: "I like you, little chap".
[1] Standing on a Glacier Mint.
--
fix (vb.): 1. to paper over, obscure, hide from public view; 2. to
work around, in a way that produces unintended consequences that are
worse than the original problem. Usage: "Windows ME fixes many of the
shortcomings of Windows 98 SE". |
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Peter T. Daniels
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:39 am
Post subject: Re: "If you are a tall man, like I am, ..." -- facially nons |
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John Briggs wrote:
| Quote: |
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
John Briggs wrote:
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
John Briggs wrote:
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
T. Z. wrote:
A while ago, I found myself uttering to someone
the following sentence, and feeling a little confused
while saying it.
"If you are a tall man, like I am, ..."
(you find yourself searching for clothes that fit.)
(I struggle to find clothes that fit.)
(it's hard to find clothes off the rack.)
____(I said this to a woman!)____
(You'd understand my confusion if you actually say it
to someone who's not a tall man.)
_____________________________
Are there similar utterances in other European
languages?
German, French, Spanish, etc.
The English for that would be "If you're a tall man like me, ..."
Or "If you are a tall man, as I am, ..."
No. That's impossibly stilted and doesn't communicate the same thing at
all.
The same thing as what? I thought we were trying to turn the original
utterance ("If you are a tall man, like I am, ...") into English - which
I have done with minimal alteration.
I thought we were trying to communicate the nuances of a particular
thought, not just come up with grammatical sentences of similar purport
to the original.
I'll settle for grammatical :-)
I thought we were translating the original utterance into English, in order
to determine what the thought actually was.
|
It was clear from the stated context, _and_ from the utterance as
ungrammatically produced, what the speaker's intention was. All that was
needed was to provide the grammatical expression for that intention.
--
Peter T. Daniels grammatim@att.net |
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Mike Girouard
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:17 pm
Post subject: Re: "If you are a tall man, like I am, ..." -- facially nons |
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"Adrian Bailey" <dadge@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<xHwyc.5519$1R5.2237@nurse.blueyonder.net>...
| Quote: | "T. Z." <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
news:20040611185924.97972.qmail@web52108.mail.yahoo.com...
A while ago, I found myself uttering to someone
the following sentence, and feeling a little confused
while saying it.
"If you are a tall man, like I am, ..."
(you find yourself searching for clothes that fit.)
(I struggle to find clothes that fit.)
(it's hard to find clothes off the rack.)
____(I said this to a woman!)____
(You'd understand my confusion if you actually say it
to someone who's not a tall man.)
It's colloquial for "If one is a tall man, like I am, ..." We often use
"you", rather than the stuffy "one", and it rarely leads to any confusion.
It is bad style, of course, to use "one" when one means "I" - an upper-class
shibboleth.
Adrian
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And anyway, shouldn't the conditional "if" phrase be using "were"
instead of "am"? If you were a tall man . . .
FoggyTown
"It may be only your humble opinion, sir, but it happens to clash with
my authoritative one." |
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Evertjan.
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:31 pm
Post subject: Re: "If you are a tall man, like I am, ..." -- facially nons |
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Mike Girouard wrote on 14 jun 2004 in sci.lang:
| Quote: | And anyway, shouldn't the conditional "if" phrase be using "were"
instead of "am"? If you were a tall man . . .
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were .., which unfortunately you are not
are .., which could well be the case
natives ??
... if I were a rich man .. (Anatevka)
--
Evertjan.
The Netherlands.
(Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress) |
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Rolleston
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:53 pm
Post subject: Re: "If you are a tall man, like I am, ..." -- facially nons |
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John Atkinson wrote:
| Quote: | I'd have found it a wee bit more acceptable, I think, if he'd said "If
you're a tall man like me..."
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As opposed to "If you're a tall man unlike a tall man like me" :)
R. |
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Robert Lieblich
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:38 am
Post subject: Re: "If you are a tall man, like I am, ..." -- facially nons |
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Rolleston wrote:
| Quote: |
John Atkinson wrote:
I'd have found it a wee bit more acceptable, I think, if he'd said "If
you're a tall man like me..."
As opposed to "If you're a tall man unlike a tall man like me" 
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If you, like me, are tall ... |
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Maria Conlon
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 7:00 am
Post subject: Re: "If you are a tall man, like I am, ..." -- facially nons |
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Robert Lieblich wrote:
| Quote: | Rolleston wrote:
John Atkinson wrote:
I'd have found it a wee bit more acceptable, I think, if he'd said
"If you're a tall man like me..."
As opposed to "If you're a tall man unlike a tall man like me" :)
If you, like me, are tall ...
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What's wrong with "If I were a tall man"? We need Zero Mostel to liven
this up.
Maria Conlon, just fiddling around. |
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Einde O'Callaghan
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:34 pm
Post subject: Re: "If you are a tall man, like I am, ..." -- facially nons |
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Maria Conlon wrote:
| Quote: | Robert Lieblich wrote:
Rolleston wrote:
John Atkinson wrote:
I'd have found it a wee bit more acceptable, I think, if he'd said
"If you're a tall man like me..."
As opposed to "If you're a tall man unlike a tall man like me" :)
If you, like me, are tall ...
What's wrong with "If I were a tall man"? We need Zero Mostel to liven
this up.
That means taht the speaker isn't tall, whereas it#s clear from the OP |
that the speaker is tall.
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan |
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Maria Conlon
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 7:22 pm
Post subject: Re: "If you are a tall man, like I am, ..." -- facially nons |
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Einde O'Callaghan wrote:
| Quote: | Maria Conlon wrote:
Robert Lieblich wrote:
Rolleston wrote:
John Atkinson wrote:
I'd have found it a wee bit more acceptable, I think, if he'd said
"If you're a tall man like me..."
As opposed to "If you're a tall man unlike a tall man like me" :)
If you, like me, are tall ...
What's wrong with "If I were a tall man"? We need Zero Mostel to
liven this up.
That means taht the speaker isn't tall, whereas it#s clear from the OP
that the speaker is tall.
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My introduction of a song, and thus a possible case of STS (Stuck Tune
Syndrome), didn't seem to work out quite the way I wanted.
This doesn't bode well for the rest of the day.
Maria Conlon
Some people get nicer with age. I don't think I'm one of them. |
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Einde O'Callaghan
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:55 pm
Post subject: Re: "If you are a tall man, like I am, ..." -- facially nons |
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Maria Conlon wrote:
| Quote: | Einde O'Callaghan wrote:
Maria Conlon wrote:
Robert Lieblich wrote:
Rolleston wrote:
John Atkinson wrote:
I'd have found it a wee bit more acceptable, I think, if he'd said
"If you're a tall man like me..."
As opposed to "If you're a tall man unlike a tall man like me" :)
If you, like me, are tall ...
What's wrong with "If I were a tall man"? We need Zero Mostel to
liven this up.
That means taht the speaker isn't tall, whereas it#s clear from the OP
that the speaker is tall.
My introduction of a song, and thus a possible case of STS (Stuck Tune
Syndrome), didn't seem to work out quite the way I wanted.
This doesn't bode well for the rest of the day.
Soory, I've just picked up the reference - I wouldn't worry about you, |
more about me for being so slow on teh uptake. ;-)
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan |
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