| Author |
Message |
Eric Schwartz
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:19 am
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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Matthew Huntbach <mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> writes:
| Quote: | "Starbucks" is perceived as American, and this is part of its attraction.
Because it is American, it is supposed to make people think of the glamorous
lifestyle as portrayed in the aforementioned television programme.
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Which makes no sense, because I'm well over 90% certain that the
characters on "Friends" never went into a Starbucks; their "local", as
it were, was an independent place called "Central Perk". Then again,
marketing has never been about making sense, I suppose...
| Quote: | The fact is that about five or so years ago there was no such thing as a
"Starbucks" in Britain. Now there seems to be one wherever you look, that's
an exaggeration, but not much of an exaggeration in central London. I
remember when the first ones opened people said "Look - that's a coffee bar
just like they have in the USA, so it must sell proper USA style coffee".
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I'm told by my friends who drink coffee that it's crap coffee, but I
can't say for sure. I *do* like their chai; all the other places
around here make it far too sweet, where Starbucks' actually has a bit
of spice to it. Naturally, I am crucified by my co-workers for ever
suggesting there's a reason to set foot in that union-busting,
unfair-trading, masses-oppressing, owned-by-the-Devil-himself place.
-=Eric
--
Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million
typewriters, and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare.
-- Blair Houghton.
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Evan Kirshenbaum
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:26 am
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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"T. Z." <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> writes:
| Quote: | Two guys go into a coffee shop and order coffee and espresso.
The waiter delivers the first order to the wrong guy, so he says,
"No, I'm coffee and he's espresso."
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I'd put "the" in front of both.
| Quote: | This is facially nonsensical, but I think this is uttered pretty
often by educated adults. Do you agree?
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It's straightforward metonymy (or synecdoche, take your pick). The
same as talking about "the readhead" or "the BMW". "I'm the second
door on the right." "I got a new set of wheels." "The White House
announced..." "These lands belong to the Crown." Etc.
In this case, the patron is using himself to stand for his order. It
can go the other way, as when the waiter tells the busboy "The
espresso at table three wants a straw." There the order is
standing for the patron.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |It is error alone which needs the
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |support of government. Truth can
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |stand by itself.
| Thomas Jefferson
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |
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David
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:42 am
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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In article
<ZKRm3c4Ddl7U-pn2-pGpRdXwdFEoH@dialup-4.249.0.23.Dial1.Washington2.Level3.net>,
John Varela <OLDlamps@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 08:01:22 UTC, David <david@dacha.freeuk.com> wrote:
One assumes that the term "regular" as used here is a USism meaning
"plain" but what if this establishment regularly serves espresso?
Order a "regular" coffee in Boston and it will arrive with cream
already added. Elsewhere, a "regular" coffee means not
decaffeinated and the cream on the side.
|
I have milk in mine, as a rule[1].
[1] 10 mm in a standard mug.
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/aureole/20-pyro.htm
Prometheus stood with his fronds of gut...
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David
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:47 am
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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In article <au9o7eep0e3u$.dlg@news.lillathedog.net>,
Enrico C <use_replyto_address@despammed.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Matthew Huntbach |
uk.culture.language.english,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
in <news:ca73a0$373$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk
An unpretentious eating place in England is called a "cafe"
Is that the same as a "coffee shop"?
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No. It's a place where you get baked beans on toasted tea cakes.
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/joachim/02-0.htm
When Joachim was born, on the stroke of midnight,
it took the midwife no more than a single look
to restore her wavering faith in the Adversary. |
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David
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:50 am
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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In article <ca79e8$h1v$2@sun-cc204.lut.ac.uk>,
Stewart Gordon <smjg_1998@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | They say you are what you eat. Can you be what you drink as well?
|
Only if you drink water.
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/joachim/02-0.htm
When Joachim was born, on the stroke of midnight,
it took the midwife no more than a single look
to restore her wavering faith in the Adversary. |
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{R}
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:09 am
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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In uk.culture.language.english on Wed, 9 Jun 2004 13:18:45 +0100, "John
Briggs" <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote:
}Demetrius Zeluff wrote:
}> I parse it as "factually".
}>
[...]
}I don't think you mean "parse".
Why the hell not ?
{R} |
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:10 am
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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Demetrius Zeluff wrote:
| Quote: | "John Briggs" <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote in
news:A8Exc.155$Uf2.130@newsfe6-gui.server.ntli.net:
Demetrius Zeluff wrote:
I parse it as "factually".
It can't be "factually" - how would "factually nonsensical" differ
from "Non-factually nonsensical". The nearest I can get is "on the
face of it", but what is really meant is anyone's guess. I don't
think you mean "parse".
What do you think I mean?
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"Read" would make sense. As would "interpret". "Construe", perhaps.
--
John Briggs |
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John Varela
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:37 am
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 18:42:07 UTC, David <david@dacha.freeuk.com> wrote:
| Quote: | In article
ZKRm3c4Ddl7U-pn2-pGpRdXwdFEoH@dialup-4.249.0.23.Dial1.Washington2.Level3.net>,
John Varela <OLDlamps@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 08:01:22 UTC, David <david@dacha.freeuk.com> wrote:
One assumes that the term "regular" as used here is a USism meaning
"plain" but what if this establishment regularly serves espresso?
Order a "regular" coffee in Boston and it will arrive with cream
already added. Elsewhere, a "regular" coffee means not
decaffeinated and the cream on the side.
I have milk in mine, as a rule[1].
|
Cream, milk, half-and-half: I don't use any of them so I use the terms
interchangeably with respect to coffee.
| Quote: | [1] 10 mm in a standard mug.
|
Is that 10 millimeters? Explain.
--
John Varela
(Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.)
I apologize for munging the address but the spam was too much. |
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Adrian Bailey
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:40 am
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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"David" <david@dacha.freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:4cbc790b53david@dacha.freeuk.com...
| Quote: | In article <au9o7eep0e3u$.dlg@news.lillathedog.net>,
Enrico C <use_replyto_address@despammed.com> wrote:
Matthew Huntbach |
uk.culture.language.english,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
in <news:ca73a0$373$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk
An unpretentious eating place in England is called a "cafe"
Is that the same as a "coffee shop"?
No. It's a place where you get baked beans on toasted tea cakes.
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The toasted teacakes I know have raisins in them - not what I'd have with my
beans.
Adrian |
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Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:46 am
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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On Wednesday, in article
<k4rdc0lsb606gtufoebrpkvrdldner62dt@4ax.com>
nobody@nowhere.com "Phil C." wrote:
| Quote: | "a shilling each". I assume this referred to the head though, for all
I know, ladies may have got in free.
|
Errm, your punctuation is at variance with the import of your message;
Shirley, you meant to write:
| Quote: | "a shilling each". I assume this referred to the head, though for all
I know, ladies may have got in free.
|
--
fix (vb.): 1. to paper over, obscure, hide from public view; 2. to
work around, in a way that produces unintended consequences that are
worse than the original problem. Usage: "Windows ME fixes many of the
shortcomings of Windows 98 SE". |
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Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:48 am
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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On 9 Jun, in article
<1be4q6m40n6qv.dlg@news.lillathedog.net>
use_replyto_address@despammed.com "Enrico C" wrote:
| Quote: | BTW, are there any coffee bars in the UK? 
|
Pretty few and far between, nowadays. There was a great fad for them in
the mid-1950s, when everyone was impressed by the "expressiveness" of the
Gaggia machine. This was used to make "froffy coffee", usually served in
little, wide-mouthed glass cups (on glass saucers).
IIRC, "The Two I's", where Tommy Steele first gave the British his own
brand of rock'n'roll (skiffle), ca.1955, was a "coffee bar". So think of
girls in sugar-starched petticoats under full skirts, and Teddy Boys.
BTW, for the benefit of furriners: "froffy" indicates the London
pronunciation of "frothy".
--
fix (vb.): 1. to paper over, obscure, hide from public view; 2. to
work around, in a way that produces unintended consequences that are
worse than the original problem. Usage: "Windows ME fixes many of the
shortcomings of Windows 98 SE". |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:53 am
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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"John Varela" <OLDlamps@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ZKRm3c4Ddl7U-pn2-3ve5MW1JdIdw@dialup-4.249.0.23.Dial1.Washington2.Level3.net...
t>,
| Quote: | John Varela <OLDlamps@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 08:01:22 UTC, David <david@dacha.freeuk.com> wrote:
One assumes that the term "regular" as used here is a USism meaning
"plain" but what if this establishment regularly serves espresso?
Order a "regular" coffee in Boston and it will arrive with cream
already added. Elsewhere, a "regular" coffee means not
decaffeinated and the cream on the side.
I have milk in mine, as a rule[1].
Cream, milk, half-and-half: I don't use any of them so I use the terms
interchangeably with respect to coffee.
|
I believe "coffee Boston" was a standard diner order in much of the country
way back when. As I understand it, it was regular coffee served up with a
double shot of cream (or milk, or condensed milk-- what have you.) |
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Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:57 am
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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On Wednesday, in article
<A8Exc.155$Uf2.130@newsfe6-gui.server.ntli.net>
john.briggs4@ntlworld.com "John Briggs" wrote:
["facially"]
| Quote: | It can't be "factually" - how would "factually nonsensical" differ from
"Non-factually nonsensical". The nearest I can get is "on the face of it",
but what is really meant is anyone's guess. I don't think you mean "parse".
|
Superficially?
--
fix (vb.): 1. to paper over, obscure, hide from public view; 2. to
work around, in a way that produces unintended consequences that are
worse than the original problem. Usage: "Windows ME fixes many of the
shortcomings of Windows 98 SE". |
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Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:00 am
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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On Wednesday, in article <40C70A72.1F6@worldnet.att.net>
grammatim@worldnet.att.net "Peter T. Daniels" wrote:
| Quote: | Enrico C wrote:
For instance: "Let go to a coffee." instead of "Let go to a coffee
bar."
?
The English for that is "Starbucks."
|
You keep your nasty colonial products to yourself, please.
--
fix (vb.): 1. to paper over, obscure, hide from public view; 2. to
work around, in a way that produces unintended consequences that are
worse than the original problem. Usage: "Windows ME fixes many of the
shortcomings of Windows 98 SE". |
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| Back to top |
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Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:06 am
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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On Wednesday, in article
<nathansanders-9BFF8F.11500509062004@news.verizon.net>
nathansanders@verizon.net "Nathan Sanders" wrote:
| Quote: | Semantically, yes, but pragmatically (in certain contexts, like coffee
shops), no. If I want a large, non-espresso coffe at Starbucks, I
order a "large coffee". In fact, whenever I've ordered coffee from
any restaurant that also served espresso, I've never once had a server
ask for clarification, so this isn't particular to coffee shops.
|
The most annoying aspect of this new rash of American-originated
coffeeshops[1] in the UK is the utter pretentiousness of their serving
staff. In particular, they pronounce "latte" as "lah-tay"; an Italian
would not say the word that way.
[1] Which, to my mind, includes Starbucks, Costa Coffee, etc.
--
fix (vb.): 1. to paper over, obscure, hide from public view; 2. to
work around, in a way that produces unintended consequences that are
worse than the original problem. Usage: "Windows ME fixes many of the
shortcomings of Windows 98 SE". |
|
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