| Author |
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Stewart Gordon
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:11 pm
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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Maria Conlon wrote:
<snip>
| Quote: | The use of "facially" here is unusual, I think. Is it meant as "on the
face of it"? That is, "on the face of it, this seems nonsensical"?
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The word that comes to my mind is "superficially".
Stewart.
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Stewart Gordon
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:13 pm
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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T. Z. wrote:
| Quote: |
Two guys go into a coffee shop and order coffee and
espresso.
The waiter delivers the first order to the wrong guy,
so he says,
"No, I'm coffee and he's espresso."
This is facially nonsensical, but I think this is
uttered pretty often by educated adults. Do you
agree?
snip |
They say you are what you eat. Can you be what you drink as well?
Stewart.
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Enrico C
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:24 pm
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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Peter T. Daniels |
uk.culture.language.english,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
in <news:40C70A72.1F6@worldnet.att.net>
| Quote: | For instance: "Let go to a coffee." instead of "Let go to a coffee
bar."
?
The English for that is "Starbucks."
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I thought that was American English ;-)
X'Posted to: uk.culture.language.english,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
--
Enrico C
Do Something Amazing Today
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:26 pm
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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Matthew Huntbach wrote:
| Quote: | An unpretentious eating place in England is called a "cafe" (sorry can't do
the accent on the 'e' where I am), which is sometimes pronounced as the French word it cm
word it comes from, and sometimes as "caff". But the connection with
"coffee" is forgotten. A cafe would quite likely only have instant coffee
available.
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Seriously? In the US counterpart, the greasy spoon/diner/Western US
'cafe'/Newyorkais "coffeeshop", the sort of basic coffee that's
traditionally served is *bad* coffee, but it's not instant. To serve
instant coffee in such a place would really violate cultural norms. Is it
that the BrE are a nation of tea-drinkers, normatively speaking?
, and a much larger number established only in the past few
| Quote: | years when there has been a craze for them, the recent ones generally being
part of a chain, particular the American chain "Starbucks".
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More precisely, a Seattle-based chain that was founded by a native of
Brooklyn (Fourth Largest City in America). Coinkidenk? I think not.
| Quote: | It's been said
a lot recently that the American television programme called "Friends" was
the thing which sparked off the craze for them.
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That's the most bathetic thing I've heard in at least three days. Oy!
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:31 pm
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: | Is a chain an "American chain" because the company originated in the
United States? If there are several locations in the UK, and the
ownership of the locations is held by UK firms, would "American chain"
still be applicable?
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Well, at least people aren't using that tiresome '60s-ish New
Left-smacking-of phrase "multinational [corporation]" as much as they used
to.
I'm fairly comfortable with calling Starbuck's an American-based chain,
but I suppose I am not so comfortable calling them an "American chain",
for the reasons you give, Coop. A true "American chain" would have to
exist only in the US.
And remember, lots of American chains are owned by powerful British,
French, German, Australian, and even Nottinghamian corporate entities.
| Quote: | If an English or Australian publisher owns several US newspapers,
would they be a British chain of newspapers or an Australian chain of
newspapers?
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It's an American chain, owned by a British or Australian publisher.
| Quote: | If the ownership is by a British or Australian firm, they
might be an "Australian-owned chain". However, if the owner sets up a
US corporation for ownership, the chain would a US chain, but the
holding corporation an Australian-owned entity.
Of course, it's possible that the Starbucks in the UK are directly
owned by the Starbucks corporation here, and my question is moot.
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Seems really unlikely to me, Coop. I think in most cases such companies
have to set up BrE subsidiaries and the loike. The real extreme case is
China, where you have to set up a jernt venture with the state, AIUI.
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Torsten Poulin
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:33 pm
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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Stewart Gordon skrev:
| Quote: | Claus Tondering wrote:
In Danish it is quite common to say "The price is xxx per nose"
instead of "The price is xxx per person".
"Per head" is the English equivalent. At least it gets used here in
Britain - don't know about elsewhere. I find it a silly expression, but
it does have the virtue of making me glad I'm not Zaphod Beeblebrox.
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Yeah, they would make you pay through your nose.
--
Torsten |
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Nathan Sanders
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:50 pm
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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In article <ShYkoZSo0vxAFwC$@34klh41lk4h1lk34h3lk4h1k4.invalid>,
Mike Barnes <june2004@mikebarnes.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | In alt.usage.english, T. Z. wrote:
Two guys go into a coffee shop and order coffee and
espresso.
Is espresso not coffee?
|
Semantically, yes, but pragmatically (in certain contexts, like coffee
shops), no. If I want a large, non-espresso coffe at Starbucks, I
order a "large coffee". In fact, whenever I've ordered coffee from
any restaurant that also served espresso, I've never once had a server
ask for clarification, so this isn't particular to coffee shops.
In certain other situations, many people use other generic terms to
refer to a set that excludes a particular salient thing it would
normally include: bread/toast, PC/Mac, wine/champagne, etc.
This seems to have a typical Gricean explanation: in the context of a
coffee shop, if I want espresso, I would ask for it. Therefore, if I
ask for coffee, I must not want espresso. The only type of coffee
that isn't espresso is non-espresso coffee, so that must be what I
mean when I order coffee (assuming, as usual, that all parties
involved in the conversation are cooperative).
Nathan
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To contact me, replace verizon.net with aol.com |
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Des Small
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:59 pm
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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Mike Barnes <june2004@mikebarnes.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
| Quote: | In alt.usage.english, T. Z. wrote:
Two guys go into a coffee shop and order coffee and
espresso.
Is espresso not coffee?
|
In Engleesh-speaking establishments an order of "a coffee" means
specifically an "americano" - expresso diluted down with water, and
(if white) some milk. Similarly "a latte" means a "caffè latte" -
expresso diluted with hot milk, but without the froth and powdered
chocolate that tends to afflict the cappuccino.
In Italian, OTOH, "latte" just means milk, so the "caffè" is not
optional, and only tourists would order one after, say, 10am, when the
acceptible choice is reduced to "caffè", which means an expresso.
[...]
Des
did like the Venetians, when in Venice
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Enrico C
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:03 pm
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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Matthew Huntbach |
uk.culture.language.english,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
in <news:ca73a0$373$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk>
| Quote: | An unpretentious eating place in England is called a "cafe"
|
Is that the same as a "coffee shop"?
X'Posted to: uk.culture.language.english,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
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Enrico C |
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Enrico C
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:03 pm
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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Matthew Huntbach |
uk.culture.language.english,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
in <news:ca78s9$4rb$1@beta.qmul.ac.uk>
["Starbucks" in Britain]
| Quote: | remember when the first ones opened people said "Look - that's a coffee bar
just like they have in the USA, so it must sell proper USA style coffee".
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And half of their beverage list is in Italian, natch ;-)
| Cappuccino
| Espresso, steamed milk and foamed milk
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| Caffè Latte
| Espresso and steamed milk
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| Vanilla Latte
| Espresso, vanilla and steamed milk
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| Caffè Mocha
| Espresso, cocoa, steamed milk and whipped cream
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| Caramel Macchiato
| Foamed milk marked with espresso, vanilla and real caramel
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| Caffè Americano
| Espresso and hot water
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| Espresso
| Our espresso roast - smooth and satisfying
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| Espresso Macchiato
| Espresso gently marked with foam
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| Espresso con Panna
| Espresso topped with whipped cream
X'Posted to: uk.culture.language.english,sci.lang,alt.usage.english
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Enrico C
Do Something Amazing Today
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John Varela
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:59 pm
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 08:01:22 UTC, David <david@dacha.freeuk.com> wrote:
| Quote: | One assumes that the term "regular" as used here is a USism meaning
"plain" but what if this establishment regularly serves espresso?
|
Order a "regular" coffee in Boston and it will arrive with cream already
added. Elsewhere, a "regular" coffee means not decaffeinated and the cream on
the side.
--
John Varela
(Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.)
I apologize for munging the address but the spam was too much. |
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Adrian Bailey
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:32 pm
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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"T. Z." <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message
news:20040609005512.71578.qmail@web52103.mail.yahoo.com...
| Quote: | Two guys go into a coffee shop and order coffee and
espresso.
The waiter delivers the first order to the wrong guy,
so he says,
"No, I'm coffee and he's espresso."
This is facially nonsensical, but I think this is
uttered pretty often by educated adults. Do you
agree?
What are some other examples of such facially
nonsensical utterances?
|
'Snot nonsense, 'sidiom, unlike your use of the word "facially".
Adrian |
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Laura F Spira
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:34 pm
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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Matthew Huntbach wrote
| Quote: |
The traditionally English thing would be the "tea shop", which is actually a
place serving a light meal with tea. There aren't many of these around, and
those that exist generally trade on an image of being quaint and genteel.
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There are lots of tea shops in tourist areas. Godshill on the Isle of
Wight is a village comprised almost entirely of tea shops, souvenir
shops and pubs and at least one of the pubs also serves cream teas. Then
there is that cynosure of tea shops, Betty's.
(http://www.bettysandtaylors.co.uk/frame.asp)
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email) |
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Demetrius Zeluff
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:17 am
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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"John Briggs" <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote in
news:A8Exc.155$Uf2.130@newsfe6-gui.server.ntli.net:
| Quote: | Demetrius Zeluff wrote:
I parse it as "factually".
It can't be "factually" - how would "factually nonsensical" differ
from "Non-factually nonsensical". The nearest I can get is "on the
face of it", but what is really meant is anyone's guess. I don't
think you mean "parse".
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What do you think I mean? |
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:17 am
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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Des Small wrote:
| Quote: | In Italian, OTOH, "latte" just means milk, so the "caffè" is not
optional, and only tourists would order one after, say, 10am, when the
acceptible choice is reduced to "caffè", which means an expresso.
|
Oy!
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