| Author |
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David
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 4:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Bitter, or Bitters? |
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In article <CaDvc.282$b%1.55@newsfe1-gui.server.ntli.net>, John Briggs
<john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote:
On Wednesday, in article
fskvc.42$1d7.37@newsfe3-win.server.ntli.net
john.briggs4@ntlworld.com "John Briggs" wrote:
Perhaps you are indulging in postmodern irony, and I am missing
the joke, but you would appear to have got yourself in a tangle
over apostrophes. I maintain that you would not, in fact, have
been incorrect if you had written "They serve Youngs in the
Members' Bar at Lords." It always used to be customary to form
the name of a shop, company or undertaking by adding an 's' to the
proprietor's name without an apostrophe (e.g. Boots, Foyles).
Aha! But do you know just WHY it's "Lords"?
Same reason it's "Boots"?
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They sell athlete's foot powder?
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/free/
Free Software: Mah-Jong Tiles & Playing Cards
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david56
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 4:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Bitter, or Bitters? |
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John Briggs typed thus:
| Quote: | Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote:
On Wednesday, in article
fskvc.42$1d7.37@newsfe3-win.server.ntli.net
john.briggs4@ntlworld.com "John Briggs" wrote:
Perhaps you are indulging in postmodern irony, and I am missing the joke,
but you would appear to have got yourself in a tangle over apostrophes.
I maintain that you would not, in fact, have been incorrect if you had
written "They serve Youngs in the Members' Bar at Lords." It always
used to be customary to form the name of a shop, company or undertaking
by adding an 's' to the proprietor's name without an apostrophe (e.g.
Boots, Foyles).
Aha! But do you know just WHY it's "Lords"?
Same reason it's "Boots"?
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Ah, you mean after the well known cricket sponsor, Jesse Lord?
--
David
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Edward
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 4:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Bitter, or Bitters? |
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bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote in message news:<20040603.0024.56524snz@dsl.co.uk>...
| Quote: | On Wednesday, in article
fskvc.42$1d7.37@newsfe3-win.server.ntli.net
john.briggs4@ntlworld.com "John Briggs" wrote:
Perhaps you are indulging in postmodern irony, and I am missing the joke,
but you would appear to have got yourself in a tangle over apostrophes. I
maintain that you would not, in fact, have been incorrect if you had written
"They serve Youngs in the Members' Bar at Lords." It always used to be
customary to form the name of a shop, company or undertaking by adding an
's' to the proprietor's name without an apostrophe (e.g. Boots, Foyles).
Aha! But do you know just WHY it's "Lords"?
|
It isn't. It's Lord's. Named after Thomas Lord.
Edward
--
The reading group's reading group:
http://www.bookgroup.org.uk
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 5:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Bitter, or Bitters? |
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Edward wrote:
| Quote: | bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote in message
news:<20040603.0024.56524snz@dsl.co.uk>...
On Wednesday, in article
fskvc.42$1d7.37@newsfe3-win.server.ntli.net
john.briggs4@ntlworld.com "John Briggs" wrote:
Perhaps you are indulging in postmodern irony, and I am missing the
joke,
but you would appear to have got yourself in a tangle over apostrophes.
I
maintain that you would not, in fact, have been incorrect if you had
written "They serve Youngs in the Members' Bar at Lords." It always
used to be
customary to form the name of a shop, company or undertaking by adding
an 's' to the proprietor's name without an apostrophe (e.g. Boots,
Foyles).
Aha! But do you know just WHY it's "Lords"?
It isn't. It's Lord's. Named after Thomas Lord.
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What about "Boots"?
--
John Briggs |
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Edward
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 1:34 am
Post subject: Re: Bitter, or Bitters? |
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"John Briggs" <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<kHEvc.282$OR1.183@newsfe4-gui>...
| Quote: | Edward wrote:
bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) wrote in message
news:<20040603.0024.56524snz@dsl.co.uk>...
On Wednesday, in article
fskvc.42$1d7.37@newsfe3-win.server.ntli.net
john.briggs4@ntlworld.com "John Briggs" wrote:
Perhaps you are indulging in postmodern irony, and I am missing the
joke,
but you would appear to have got yourself in a tangle over apostrophes.
I
maintain that you would not, in fact, have been incorrect if you had
written "They serve Youngs in the Members' Bar at Lords." It always
used to be
customary to form the name of a shop, company or undertaking by adding
an 's' to the proprietor's name without an apostrophe (e.g. Boots,
Foyles).
Aha! But do you know just WHY it's "Lords"?
It isn't. It's Lord's. Named after Thomas Lord.
What about "Boots"?
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As ever, Google is your friend:
http://www.boots.com/?banner=g&creative=bootschemist
Seems to be Boots. I never disputed it, though - just Young's and
Lord's. I agree with you - it is rather perverse of Lord's to
persevere with this deprecated construction, but what can you do?
Probably nothing. I can't do anything, and I'm an MCC member. I'll
see if I can get a motion tabled, if there seems to be a sufficient
groundswell of opinion.
Edward
--
The reading group's reading group:
http://www.bookgroup.org.uk |
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Colin Samuel Rosenthal
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Bitter, or Bitters? |
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In article <3fa4d950.0406020856.fd3601b@posting.google.com>, Mike Lyle
(mike_lyle_uk@yahoo.co.uk) says...
| Quote: | But have you noticed that British beers have been getting stronger for
some ten years now? I think it's a bit unfortunate, not only because
the flavours aren't always heavy enough to carry the additional
alcohol, but because it's harder to find a tasty beer you can swill
all evening without getting totally rat-arsed.
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A bottle of Greene King IPA I drank recently had a label on which it was
described as "sessionable". If that's a neologism then I think I can
live with it as a shorter alternative to "a tasty beer you can swill
all evening without getting totally rat-arsed." These days I drink
Marston's Pedigree because it's cheap, tastes pretty good, is actually
available in darkest Jutland, and is also, I suppose, sessionable
--
Colin Rosenthal Sabbagh's Second Law: The biggest problem with
communication is the illusion that it has occurred. |
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Linz
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 10:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Bitter, or Bitters? |
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On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 11:36:35 +0100, "Matti Lamprhey"
<matti-nospam@totally-official.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "Dr Robin Bignall" <docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote...
"John Varela" <OLDlamps@earthlink.net> wrote:
"Matti Lamprhey" <matti-nospam@totally-official.com> wrote:
Next year I'll buy two and let you know for certain!
How much do these things cost?
Just what I was going to ask. It sounds as though Matti is going to
have to save for a year to get two.
It's taken me a while to answer this question, and I really have no idea
how much I paid for that bottle from Waitrose, Monmouth. However,
here's somewhere which offers it for $5.99 in the US:
http://www.exclamationagiftshop.com/beverages/Fuller_s_Vintage_Ale.shtml
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I think we paid 4quid for our bottles. In Safeway.
--
Hooray for the differently sane. |
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AG
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Bitter, or Bitters? |
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I am 83.... I have never had a taste of beer in my life. In the 20s we
lived across from a pub.... every night there were fight's..... SO i
always connected drinking & scrapping...... if I ever grew up..... I
would never drink. The English & the Irish taught me a good lesson. I
have been in the States since 1945.... Yup, I miss my home, I was born
in London.... I have a sister, who lives in Bedmond Bucks a sister
living in Somerset. & a brother in Slough..
Sincerely.A.G.
U.S.A.
T.T.F.N. |
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T. Z.
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:48 pm
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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Hi. The comments so far have been most interesting.
I should come here more often.
re: "facially"
In the US we often talk about "facially neutral" laws
with discriminatory intent or impact.
Re: 2 versions
SIMPLE: "I'm coffee and he's espresso."
THE: "I'm the coffee and he's the espresso."
The SIMPLE-version seems more common than the
THE-version.
In my mind, The SIMPLE-version is just sloppy English,
and the THE-version is correct metonymy.
Isn't it true that correct metonymy requires use of
such "THE"?
"the Crown"
"Then the press descended on the scene."
"The pen is mightier than the sword."
BUT
"Washington responded swiftly to the invasion."
(which is ok; not a counter-example)
| Quote: |
Two guys go into a coffee shop and order coffee and
espresso.
The waiter delivers the first order to the wrong
guy,
so he says,
"No, I'm coffee and he's espresso."
This is facially nonsensical, but I think this is
uttered pretty often by educated adults. Do you
agree?
What are some other examples of such facially
nonsensical utterances?
I'm interested in examples in other languages as
well. Thanks.
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Ron Hardin
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:56 pm
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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T. Z. wrote:
| Quote: | SIMPLE: "I'm coffee and he's espresso."
THE: "I'm the coffee and he's the espresso."
The SIMPLE-version seems more common than the
THE-version.
In my mind, The SIMPLE-version is just sloppy English,
and the THE-version is correct metonymy.
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But it's not metonymy. It takes on the point of view of the
waiter: where does the coffee go and where does the expresso go.
--
Ron Hardin
rhhardin@mindspring.com
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk. |
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:14 am
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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T. Z. wrote:
| Quote: |
re: "facially"
In the US we often talk about "facially neutral" laws
with discriminatory intent or impact.
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Although also illiterate, that is not the usage in this case.
--
John Briggs |
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Donna Richoux
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:05 am
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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"T. Z." <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:
| Quote: | re: "facially"
In the US we often talk about "facially neutral" laws
with discriminatory intent or impact.
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Often? Googling shows that the term "facially neutral" does exist, but
it appears to be limited to court opinions and policies concerning
employment discrimination. In a 1976 decision, the US Supreme Court
said:
(c) The disproportionate impact of Test 21, which is
neutral on its face, does not warrant the conclusion
that the test was a purposely discriminatory device,
and on the facts before it the District Court
properly held that any inference of discrimination
was unwarranted. P. 246.
[WASHINGTON v. DAVIS, 426 U.S. 229 (1976)]
The phrase "neutral on its face" is apparently what gave rise to
"facially neutral," to refer to the same sort of policy.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
An American living in the Netherlands |
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Michael West
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 10:47 am
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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Michael West wrote:
| Quote: | In Oz I hear "la-day", heavily diphonged
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Sorry -- "heavily diphthonged"
--
Michael West |
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Evan Kirshenbaum
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:28 am
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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Ron Hardin <rhhardin@mindspring.com> writes:
| Quote: | T. Z. wrote:
SIMPLE: "I'm coffee and he's espresso."
THE: "I'm the coffee and he's the espresso."
The SIMPLE-version seems more common than the THE-version.
In my mind, The SIMPLE-version is just sloppy English, and the
THE-version is correct metonymy.
But it's not metonymy. It takes on the point of view of the waiter:
where does the coffee go and where does the expresso go.
|
It either uses the thing ordered to refer to the person ordering it or
the person ordering a thing to refer to the order that should be put
in front of them. Metonymy in either case.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |"The Dynamics of Interbeing and
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |Monological Imperatives in 'Dick
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |and Jane' : A Study in Psychic
|Transrelational Modes."
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | Calvin
(650)857-7572
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |
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David
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:57 pm
Post subject: Re: "I'm coffee and he's espresso." -- facially nonsensical |
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In article <40c7e733$0$3584$45beb828@newscene.com>,
Michael West <mbwest@remove.bigpond.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Michael West wrote:
In Oz I hear "la-day", heavily diphonged
Sorry -- "heavily diphthonged"
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'Sno wonder no-one understands anyone from the antipodes.
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/quiz/40-0.htm
How many times a day are the two hands of a clock precisely opposite each other and both pointing exactly to a minute line? |
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