| Author |
Message |
Bill Bonde ( ``And the La
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:07 am
Post subject: Re: Irony? |
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Jordan Abel wrote:
| Quote: |
Tony Cooper wrote:
On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 09:55:19 -0800, "Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies
down on Broadway'' )" <stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote:
John O'Flaherty wrote:
Jerry Friedman wrote:
I saw this sticker on an SUV today:
JOHN KERRY...
Bringing complete sentences to the White House.
Is this part of the extended Bonde's FIT: Functional Illiteracy
Theory? Bumper stickers require complete sentences? What part of
speech are heart-shaped figures?
Verb, traditionally.
Anyway, it wouldn't have been criticized for not being a complete sentence
if it weren't itself talking about "complete sentences".
Exactly, but is that irony? |
--
So I was feeding the hummingbirds but not changing the feeder sugar
water quickly enough and it fermented into something like that stuff
that Hunter S Thompson was drinking in the Rum Diary, anyway, so I had
these drunk birds flying everywhere just like mosquitoes in Minnesota,
dashing up one side of me, darting down the other, crashing into the
windows, falling off their perches, didn't even know they perched,
flying backwards, flying backwards, it was like something out of the
Exorcist. After a while though, I got bored with it all. Next Summer I'm
going to Alaska to feed french bread soaked in Wild Turkey to polar
bears. Wish me luck!
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Irony? |
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On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 20:40:41 -0800, "Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies
down on Broadway'' )" <stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I see the first one as apt and witty, but not ironic. According to AHD,
the 'ironic' should have a contrast between apparent and intended
meaning, or an incongruity between expected and actual outcomes. Even
the modern usage to mean something like 'coincidental' isn't there.
The person has a bumper sticker saying that Kerry will bring complete
sentences to the white house and the person isn't using a complete
sentence. Would it be irony if it were stuck on the limo Kerry was
taking to the White House on inauguration day, I mean pretending he won
the election?
Is this part of the extended Bonde's FIT: Functional Illiteracy
Theory? Bumper stickers require complete sentences? What part of
speech are heart-shaped figures?
I do like the irony of a person commenting on the irony of incorrect
usage not capitalizing a proper noun phrase in one place, and
capitalizing it in another..
But that's the irony. I didn't claim that bumper stickers had to be
'complete' sentences. I don't claim that writers have to or should use
'complete' sentences all the time either.
It is my opinion that "White House" should be capitalized. Being wrong
about something isn't irony.
You can write the sentence above, and then write
: Writing how Kerry is bringing complete
sentences back to the White House is ironic when you write that out
using an incomplete sentence.
the sentence above and not see the irony? You never really understood
that people, rocks, and glass houses thing, did you?
How can me pointing out what the irony was be ironic? Are you trying to
claim that I wrote 'white house' or are you trying to claim I didn't
create a complete sentence? I don't claim to create 'complete'
sentences. I don't claim they are important in aue or the white house or
the White House. That was something from the bumper stick, if you'll
recall.
|
There's probably one chance in ten that you will "get it", but I'll
try. You said being wrong about something isn't irony. Then, you
gave an example of something being wrong and said it was ironic.
That is ironic.
PS I just reread your last paragraph. Make that one chance in a
hundred. I think that handkerchief with the knotted corners is
slipping over your eyes. In fact, I claim that this is so. |
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Bill Bonde ( ``And the La
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Irony? |
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Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: |
On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 20:40:41 -0800, "Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies
down on Broadway'' )" <stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote:
I see the first one as apt and witty, but not ironic. According to AHD,
the 'ironic' should have a contrast between apparent and intended
meaning, or an incongruity between expected and actual outcomes. Even
the modern usage to mean something like 'coincidental' isn't there.
The person has a bumper sticker saying that Kerry will bring complete
sentences to the white house and the person isn't using a complete
sentence. Would it be irony if it were stuck on the limo Kerry was
taking to the White House on inauguration day, I mean pretending he won
the election?
Is this part of the extended Bonde's FIT: Functional Illiteracy
Theory? Bumper stickers require complete sentences? What part of
speech are heart-shaped figures?
I do like the irony of a person commenting on the irony of incorrect
usage not capitalizing a proper noun phrase in one place, and
capitalizing it in another..
But that's the irony. I didn't claim that bumper stickers had to be
'complete' sentences. I don't claim that writers have to or should use
'complete' sentences all the time either.
It is my opinion that "White House" should be capitalized. Being wrong
about something isn't irony.
You can write the sentence above, and then write
: Writing how Kerry is bringing complete
sentences back to the White House is ironic when you write that out
using an incomplete sentence.
the sentence above and not see the irony? You never really understood
that people, rocks, and glass houses thing, did you?
How can me pointing out what the irony was be ironic? Are you trying to
claim that I wrote 'white house' or are you trying to claim I didn't
create a complete sentence? I don't claim to create 'complete'
sentences. I don't claim they are important in aue or the white house or
the White House. That was something from the bumper stick, if you'll
recall.
There's probably one chance in ten that you will "get it", but I'll
try. You said being wrong about something isn't irony. Then, you
gave an example of something being wrong and said it was ironic.
I did not. I never claimed that incomplete sentences were wrong. I said |
that the bumper sticker was bragging about Kerry bringing complete
sentences to the White House while it was using an incomplete sentence.
| Quote: | That is ironic.
If this is so important to you, perhaps you can get someone less in the |
clouds to explain it to me.
| Quote: | PS I just reread your last paragraph. Make that one chance in a
hundred. I think that handkerchief with the knotted corners is
slipping over your eyes. In fact, I claim that this is so.
Are you intentionally trying to start some kind of lame flame war? I had |
thought I was helping explain what the original poster had meant when he
claimed that his example was ironic. I never claimed to be perfect or to
always use complete sentences. I'll try and do better next time, porc
chop.
--
So I was feeding the hummingbirds but not changing the feeder sugar
water quickly enough and it fermented into something like that stuff
that Hunter S Thompson was drinking in the Rum Diary, anyway, so I had
these drunk birds flying everywhere just like mosquitoes in Minnesota,
dashing up one side of me, darting down the other, crashing into the
windows, falling off their perches, didn't even know they perched,
flying backwards, flying backwards, it was like something out of the
Exorcist. After a while though, I got bored with it all. Next Summer I'm
going to Alaska to feed french bread soaked in Wild Turkey to polar
bears. Wish me luck!
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Sh. Mandrake
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Irony? |
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jerry_friedman@yahoo.com <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I think that since your post, Bill Bonde and I have thoroughly
explained why I thought it would have been ironic even before the
election. After the election there's the additional irony that Kerry
is not bringing anything to the White House.
|
I didn't read the whole thread, but I think I get the irony, now.
Thanx. :-)
--
Hakuna matata,
Le magicien (Le magicien ne parle qu'en son nom personnel,
et encore, pas toujours.)
Pour le courrier/For emails : mandrake2@libertysurf.fr |
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jerry_friedman@yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Irony? |
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Sh. Mandrake wrote:
| Quote: | the Omrud <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> wrote:
Jerry Friedman typed thus:
I saw this sticker on an SUV today:
JOHN KERRY...
Bringing complete sentences to the White House.
In my American understanding, that was ironic even before the
election.
(The other sticker on that vehicle was also an a.u.e.
threadcheck.
"GIRLY MEN VOTE TOO!")
Not really relevant, but I was amused by the bumper sticker seen by
a
BBC reporter somewhere in the US South before the vote:
Jesus is coming. Look busy!
I love the three of them (stickers)!
Thanks for sharing them with us.
I'm not sure I got the first one thouroughly.
What's the difference with it before and after the election?
|
I think that since your post, Bill Bonde and I have thoroughly
explained why I thought it would have been ironic even before the
election. After the election there's the additional irony that Kerry
is not bringing anything to the White House.
--
Jerry Friedman |
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Irony? |
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On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 22:54:35 GMT, Tony Cooper
<tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 09:55:19 -0800, "Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies
down on Broadway'' )" <stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote:
The person has a bumper sticker saying that Kerry will bring complete
sentences to the white house and the person isn't using a complete
sentence. Would it be irony if it were stuck on the limo Kerry was
taking to the White House on inauguration day, I mean pretending he won
the election?
Is this part of the extended Bonde's FIT: Functional Illiteracy
Theory? Bumper stickers require complete sentences? What part of
speech are heart-shaped figures?
|
Not one part, three. When on a bumper, the figure doesn't represent
"heart", my functionally literate, educated fellow, it equates to
either "I love you" or "Love [is a good thing]", both complete
sentences.
--
Charles Riggs
They are no accented letters in my email address |
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Jordan Abel
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:16 am
Post subject: Re: Irony? |
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Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' ) wrote:
| Quote: | Anyway, it wouldn't have been criticized for not being a complete
sentence if it weren't itself talking about "complete sentences".
Exactly, but is that irony?
|
As I understand the phrase, yes. However, one of the laws of Usenet seems to
be
"If you use the term 'irony', no matter what you use it to refer to, someone
will accuse you of misusing it." |
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