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Bill Bonde ( ``And the La
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:43 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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Hagrinas Mivali wrote:
| Quote: |
Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' ) wrote:
Sara Lorimer wrote:
The obituary for David Shulman, "a self-described Sherlock Holmes of
Americanisms," in today's New York Times not only quotes AUE's Jesse
Sheidlower (for some odd reason, though, they don't mention AUE)
The media still doesn't know about usenet. They know about blogs, the
web, people downloading music on peer to peer networks. They don't
know about usenet. I don't know why.
Is this a problem? If they did talk about Usenet, AUE would not be the
relevant part. They would have to talk about how it can be used for
dowloading music, or how it has been used for downloading porn since before
the web existed. Let's try not to get an inflated sense of importance here.
Porn rulez!
I've seen usenet on the news a few times but it seems to be through the |
eyes of an AOL browser, leaving the impression, perhaps, that the news
presenter thinks that he is looking at something that is part of AOL.
While I'm sure binary newsgroups take the majority of the bandwidth,
they are not carried or used by the majority of usenet users, I don't
believe. Most posts are like this one, discussion about some issue,
event, idea.
--
The Republicans are going for the Dem jugular in 2008 with Pataki or
Giuliani for president, putting New York state in play, and Condi or
Colin for vice president, putting the black American vote into play. The
Dem response is to run Hillary. Hilarious.
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Bill Bonde ( ``And the La
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:14 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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Dylan Nicholson wrote:
| Quote: |
"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:418fbe4b.45338114@news.saix.net...
On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 19:04:21 +1100, "Dylan Nicholson" <wizofaus@hotmail.com
wrote:
Although the mid-paragraph plural-to-singular switch is a little awkward,
I wouldn't call it Oy!-able. "The media" is a singular collective noun.
"They" can only sensibly refer to the individuals that make up the
media (journalists, etc.). "It knows about blogs..." etc. sounds
equally clumsy anyway.
So print, radio and film are three different mediae?
Indeed, and they all have their own agendae.
Future English? |
--
The Republicans are going for the Dem jugular in 2008 with Pataki or
Giuliani for president, putting New York state in play, and Condi or
Colin for vice president, putting the black American vote into play. The
Dem response is to run Hillary. Hilarious. |
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Steve Hayes
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:05 pm
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 07:16:53 +1100, "Dylan Nicholson" <wizofaus@hotmail.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | "Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:418fbe4b.45338114@news.saix.net...
On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 19:04:21 +1100, "Dylan Nicholson" <wizofaus@hotmail.com
wrote:
Although the mid-paragraph plural-to-singular switch is a little awkward,
I wouldn't call it Oy!-able. "The media" is a singular collective noun.
"They" can only sensibly refer to the individuals that make up the
media (journalists, etc.). "It knows about blogs..." etc. sounds
equally clumsy anyway.
So print, radio and film are three different mediae?
Indeed, and they all have their own agendae.
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Which they discuss at their meetingses.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
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Stan Brown
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:02 pm
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in alt.usage.english:
| Quote: | On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 07:16:53 +1100, "Dylan Nicholson" <wizofaus@hotmail.com
wrote:
"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:418fbe4b.45338114@news.saix.net...
So print, radio and film are three different mediae?
Indeed, and they all have their own agendae.
Which they discuss at their meetingses.
|
I don't think the cases are parallel. For one thing, "agenda" has
gone much further toward being a singular noun than "media" or
"data". I think many people who would never accept "a media" would
accept "an agenda" -- I'm one of them.
If we say "the agenda of this meeting", what noun form should we use
for "the ____ of the meetings between now and June"?
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
"And if you're afraid of butter, which many people are nowa-
days, (long pause) you just put in cream." --Julia Child |
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Paul Wolff
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:15 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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In message <2vfgqiF2k8g63U1@uni-berlin.de>, Dylan Nicholson
<wizofaus@hotmail.com> writes
| Quote: | "Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:MPG.1bfc4aa3611a885598ccfd@news.odyssey.net...
I don't think the cases are parallel. For one thing, "agenda" has
gone much further toward being a singular noun than "media" or
"data". I think many people who would never accept "a media" would
accept "an agenda" -- I'm one of them.
So am I, but at least partly because "a media" doesn't make sense,
given that "the media" is collectively *all* mass media.
I'd still like to get my hands around the throat of that Veritas man or |
woman who set up the error message 'Insert a new media' to appear after
the drive has spat out a tape.
Maybe the "a ... media" jar puts me off balance, but I can't help also
running through a brain routine to decide if they perhaps want me to
stick a CD-ROM or some other (new = different) backup medium in the hole
instead.
--
Paul
In bocca al Lupo! |
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Maria Conlon
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:16 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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Stan Brown wrote:
| Quote: | Steve Hayes wrote:
Dylan Nicholson wrote:
Steve Hayes wrote:
So print, radio and film are three different mediae?
Indeed, and they all have their own agendae.
Which they discuss at their meetingses.
I don't think the cases are parallel. For one thing, "agenda" has
gone much further toward being a singular noun than "media" or
"data". I think many people who would never accept "a media" would
accept "an agenda" -- I'm one of them.
If we say "the agenda of this meeting", what noun form should we use
for "the ____ of the meetings between now and June"?
|
My vote would go to "agendas" unless all the meetings in reference have
the same agenda (in which case, "agenda" works just fine).
Regarding "a media": it sure wouldn't work for me. But I still would
(and do) say "the media is" rather than "...are," whether it's one
medium or the whole lot of them.
Maria Conlon
The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from
sticking to the matter at hand. [Lewis Thomas, 1913 - 1993] |
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Dylan Nicholson
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:16 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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"Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:MPG.1bfc4aa3611a885598ccfd@news.odyssey.net...
| Quote: | "Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in alt.usage.english:
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 07:16:53 +1100, "Dylan Nicholson" <wizofaus@hotmail.com
wrote:
"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:418fbe4b.45338114@news.saix.net...
So print, radio and film are three different mediae?
Indeed, and they all have their own agendae.
Which they discuss at their meetingses.
I don't think the cases are parallel. For one thing, "agenda" has
gone much further toward being a singular noun than "media" or
"data". I think many people who would never accept "a media" would
accept "an agenda" -- I'm one of them.
|
So am I, but at least partly because "a media" doesn't make sense,
given that "the media" is collectively *all* mass media.
"Data" is the same. I don't think there's any dispute that data
can and, in modern usage, most usually does take a singular verb.
But you still can't say "A data".
Any other words like this? |
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R H Draney
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:16 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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Stan Brown filted:
| Quote: |
I don't think the cases are parallel. For one thing, "agenda" has
gone much further toward being a singular noun than "media" or
"data". I think many people who would never accept "a media" would
accept "an agenda" -- I'm one of them.
If we say "the agenda of this meeting", what noun form should we use
for "the ____ of the meetings between now and June"?
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Depends what your criterias are....
But then we've discussed these phenomenim before....r |
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Steve Hayes
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:38 pm
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:56:54 -0500, Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
| Quote: | "Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in alt.usage.english:
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 07:16:53 +1100, "Dylan Nicholson" <wizofaus@hotmail.com
wrote:
"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:418fbe4b.45338114@news.saix.net...
So print, radio and film are three different mediae?
Indeed, and they all have their own agendae.
Which they discuss at their meetingses.
I don't think the cases are parallel. For one thing, "agenda" has
gone much further toward being a singular noun than "media" or
"data". I think many people who would never accept "a media" would
accept "an agenda" -- I'm one of them.
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True, because it makes sense in the case of agenda, but it doesn't in the case
of madia.
An agendum is something to be done. Agenda are things to be done. "An" agenda
is a "to-do" list. You can have more than one list. So "agendas" are lists of
agenda.
Media, onm the other hand, in the sense of "mass comunications media" means
"all of them", not "all of it". The composite nature is significant. It's not
just the press, not just radio, not just TV. It's all of them.
It's the singular "they" what's done it, are what I says.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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dcw
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:05 pm
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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In article <MPG.1bfc4aa3611a885598ccfd@news.odyssey.net>,
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
| Quote: | I don't think the cases are parallel. For one thing, "agenda" has
gone much further toward being a singular noun than "media" or
"data". I think many people who would never accept "a media" would
accept "an agenda" -- I'm one of them.
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The word "agendum" is not quite dead -- it was used in a meeting I
attended a few days ago.
David |
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Will
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:08 pm
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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CyberCypher <cybercypher@19-16-25-13-01-03.com> wrote in message news:<Xns959B55E9792EAcctxt2002@130.133.1.4>...
| Quote: | Steve MacGregor wrote on 08 Nov 2004:
"Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' )"
stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote in message
news:418E734F.F58F4358@backpacker.com...
The media still doesn't know about usenet.
Why do you say they doesn't know about Usenet? Why don't you say
that they =don't= know?
Because some people consider "media" a singular collective noun that
takes a singular verb, similar to "family", as in "My family doesn't
celebrate Christmas".
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Weird. My family "don't" celebrate Passover, but it does celebrate
Christmas. And I'm not a single parent with no children.
Will. |
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Stan Brown
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:07 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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"dcw" <D.C.Wood@ukc.ac.uk> wrote in alt.usage.english:
| Quote: | In article <MPG.1bfc4aa3611a885598ccfd@news.odyssey.net>,
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
I don't think the cases are parallel. For one thing, "agenda" has
gone much further toward being a singular noun than "media" or
"data". I think many people who would never accept "a media" would
accept "an agenda" -- I'm one of them.
The word "agendum" is not quite dead -- it was used in a meeting I
attended a few days ago.
|
An episode of /Yes, Prime Minister/ made much of a single-item
agenda being an agendum. It was the episode about the National
Education Service, but I can't recall the title off hand (unless
that was it).
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
"And if you're afraid of butter, which many people are nowa-
days, (long pause) you just put in cream." --Julia Child |
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Steve Hayes
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:05 pm
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 23:36:36 -0500, Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
| Quote: | "dcw" <D.C.Wood@ukc.ac.uk> wrote in alt.usage.english:
In article <MPG.1bfc4aa3611a885598ccfd@news.odyssey.net>,
Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
I don't think the cases are parallel. For one thing, "agenda" has
gone much further toward being a singular noun than "media" or
"data". I think many people who would never accept "a media" would
accept "an agenda" -- I'm one of them.
The word "agendum" is not quite dead -- it was used in a meeting I
attended a few days ago.
An episode of /Yes, Prime Minister/ made much of a single-item
agenda being an agendum. It was the episode about the National
Education Service, but I can't recall the title off hand (unless
that was it).
|
I've only heard it used in formal meetings.
"We will take agendum 45 now, and agenda 44 and 46 after the tea break."
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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The Grammer Genious
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:03 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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dcw wrote:
| Quote: | The word "agendum" is not quite dead -- it was used in a meeting I
attended a few days ago.
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Did the person who used it also draw attention to the
spaghetto on your necktie?
\\P. Schultz |
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Hagrinas Mivali
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:00 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' ) wrote:
| Quote: | Sara Lorimer wrote:
The obituary for David Shulman, "a self-described Sherlock Holmes of
Americanisms," in today's New York Times not only quotes AUE's Jesse
Sheidlower (for some odd reason, though, they don't mention AUE)
The media still doesn't know about usenet. They know about blogs, the
web, people downloading music on peer to peer networks. They don't
know about usenet. I don't know why.
|
Dictionaries don't care about Usenet either, or at least they claim not to
care. When columnist Dan Savage wanted to get "santorum" into dictionaries,
he was told that Internet references don't count. |
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