| Author |
Message |
CyberCypher
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:01 pm
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
|
|
Steve Hayes wrote on 08 Nov 2004:
| Quote: | On 8 Nov 2004 00:26:30 GMT, CyberCypher
cybercypher@19-16-25-13-01-03.com> wrote:
Steve MacGregor wrote on 08 Nov 2004:
"Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' )"
stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote in message
news:418E734F.F58F4358@backpacker.com...
The media still doesn't know about usenet.
Why do you say they doesn't know about Usenet? Why don't you
say that they =don't= know?
Because some people consider "media" a singular collective noun
that takes a singular verb, similar to "family", as in "My family
doesn't celebrate Christmas". Check your most recent dictionary.
The AHD4, for example:
And "they" is a singular collective pronoun.
|
That's what usage mavens tell us, yes.
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Bill Bonde ( ``And the La
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:17 pm
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
|
|
CyberCypher wrote:
| Quote: |
Steve Hayes wrote on 08 Nov 2004:
On 8 Nov 2004 00:26:30 GMT, CyberCypher
cybercypher@19-16-25-13-01-03.com> wrote:
Steve MacGregor wrote on 08 Nov 2004:
"Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' )"
stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote in message
news:418E734F.F58F4358@backpacker.com...
The media still doesn't know about usenet.
Why do you say they doesn't know about Usenet? Why don't you
say that they =don't= know?
Because some people consider "media" a singular collective noun
that takes a singular verb, similar to "family", as in "My family
doesn't celebrate Christmas". Check your most recent dictionary.
The AHD4, for example:
And "they" is a singular collective pronoun.
That's what usage mavens tell us, yes.
So now I'm set in sand ready for the cement with the folks using |
singular they? Is that where me should be?
--
The Republicans are going for the Dem jugular in 2008 with Pataki or
Giuliani for president, putting New York state in play, and Condi or
Colin for vice president, putting the black American vote into play. The
Dem response is to run Hillary. Hilarious. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CyberCypher
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:45 pm
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
|
|
Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' ) wrote on 08 Nov
2004:
[...]
| Quote: | So now I'm set in sand ready for the cement with the folks using
singular they? Is that where me should be?
|
You should be wherever you want to be on that point of contention.
Nobody cares but you and your publisher, and if you don't have a
publisher other than Usenet, nobody really cares at all. If you haven't
figured that out by now, you are in trouble.
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dylan Nicholson
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:04 pm
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
|
|
"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:418f01cb.260437199@news.saix.net...
| Quote: | On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 11:11:11 -0800, "Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on
Broadway'' )" <stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote:
Sara Lorimer wrote:
The obituary for David Shulman, "a self-described Sherlock Holmes of
Americanisms," in today's New York Times not only quotes AUE's Jesse
Sheidlower (for some odd reason, though, they don't mention AUE)
The media still doesn't know about usenet. They know about blogs, the
web, people downloading music on peer to peer networks. They don't know
about usenet. I don't know why.
Oy!
Although the mid-paragraph plural-to-singular switch is a little awkward, |
I wouldn't call it Oy!-able. "The media" is a singular collective noun.
"They" can only sensibly refer to the individuals that make up the
media (journalists, etc.). "It knows about blogs..." etc. sounds
equally clumsy anyway. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CyberCypher
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:06 pm
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
|
|
Dylan Nicholson wrote on 08 Nov 2004:
| Quote: | "Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:418f01cb.260437199@news.saix.net...
On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 11:11:11 -0800, "Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb
lies down on Broadway'' )" <stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote:
Sara Lorimer wrote:
The obituary for David Shulman, "a self-described Sherlock
Holmes of Americanisms," in today's New York Times not only
quotes AUE's Jesse Sheidlower (for some odd reason, though,
they don't mention AUE)
The media still doesn't know about usenet. They know about
blogs, the web, people downloading music on peer to peer
networks. They don't know about usenet. I don't know why.
Oy!
Although the mid-paragraph plural-to-singular switch is a little
awkward, I wouldn't call it Oy!-able. "The media" is a singular
collective noun. "They" can only sensibly refer to the individuals
that make up the media (journalists, etc.). "It knows about
blogs..." etc. sounds equally clumsy anyway.
|
Shirley, such inconsistency is decidedly Oy!-able.
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Holmes
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:04 pm
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
|
|
Steve MacGregor wrote:
| Quote: | "Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' )"
stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote in message
news:418E734F.F58F4358@backpacker.com...
The media still doesn't know about usenet.
Why do you say they doesn't know about Usenet? Why don't you say that
they =don't= know?
|
It is probably because the Meejah has only one mind (and sometimes less)
between itself.
--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus those of alt.usage.english
at tpg dot com dot au |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard R. Hershberger
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:05 pm
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
|
|
"Freddy" <ant@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message news:<pHBjd.382$3U4.36624@news02.tsnz.net>...
| Quote: | "Dylan Nicholson" <wizofaus@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2v8672F2h60puU1@uni-berlin.de...
"Freddy" <ant@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:njBjd.380$3U4.36762@news02.tsnz.net...
My dictionaries define media as a plural of medium. There is no
mention
of it being a collective noun.
Get a better one then. This has already been discussed to death here.
I vaguely remember there were one or two dissenters, but you can't please
everyone.
Surely you mean get a worse one!
|
Sure: "worse" in the sense of "contains more information", assuming
that lack of information is what you look for in a reference book. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jess Askin
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
|
|
"Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
news:MPG.1bf8bc1313900c0598ccbd@news.odyssey.net...
| Quote: | "CyberCypher" <cybercypher@19-16-25-13-01-03.com> wrote in
alt.usage.english:
Steve MacGregor wrote on 08 Nov 2004:
"Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' )"
stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote in message
news:418E734F.F58F4358@backpacker.com...
The media still doesn't know about usenet.
Why do you say they doesn't know about Usenet? Why don't you say
that they =don't= know?
Because some people consider "media" a singular collective noun that
takes a singular verb, similar to "family", as in "My family doesn't
celebrate Christmas"
We're certainly tending in that direction, what with fewer and fewer
people concentrating media ownership in their hands. But still there
is more than one medium.
|
If you're using "media" in that sense, it's still plural -- "Hitchhiker's
Guide to the Galaxy has appeared in several different media." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steve Hayes
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:11 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
|
|
On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 23:11:47 -0500, Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm>
wrote:
| Quote: | Because some people consider "media" a singular collective noun that
takes a singular verb, similar to "family", as in "My family doesn't
celebrate Christmas"
We're certainly tending in that direction, what with fewer and fewer
people concentrating media ownership in their hands. But still there
is more than one medium.
|
Television is a medium because anything well done is rare.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bill Bonde ( ``And the La
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:13 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
|
|
CyberCypher wrote:
| Quote: |
Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' ) wrote on 08 Nov
2004:
[...]
So now I'm set in sand ready for the cement with the folks using
singular they? Is that where me should be?
You should be wherever you want to be on that point of contention.
Nobody cares but you and your publisher, and if you don't have a
publisher other than Usenet, nobody really cares at all. If you haven't
figured that out by now, you are in trouble.
But people do care enough to comment, whether or not that constitutes |
really caring or not. I had thought post-election that Bush or Kerry
would be the Lamb on Broadway, but I guess it's me.
--
The Republicans are going for the Dem jugular in 2008 with Pataki or
Giuliani for president, putting New York state in play, and Condi or
Colin for vice president, putting the black American vote into play. The
Dem response is to run Hillary. Hilarious. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hagrinas Mivali
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:34 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
|
|
Freddy wrote:
| Quote: | "Dylan Nicholson" <wizofaus@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2v8672F2h60puU1@uni-berlin.de...
"Freddy" <ant@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:njBjd.380$3U4.36762@news02.tsnz.net...
"CyberCypher" <cybercypher@19-16-25-13-01-03.com> wrote in message
news:Xns959B55E9792EAcctxt2002@130.133.1.4...
Because some people consider "media" a singular collective noun
that takes a singular verb, similar to "family", as in "My family
doesn't celebrate Christmas". Check your most recent dictionary.
The AHD4, for example:
4. pl. media Usage Problem
a. A means of mass communication, such as newpapers, magazines,
radio, or television.
b. media (used with a sing. or pl. verb) The group of journalists
and others who constitute the communications industry and
profession.
5. pl. media Computer Science An object or device, such as a disk,
on which data is stored.
--
My dictionaries define media as a plural of medium. There is no
mention
of it being a collective noun.
Get a better one then. This has already been discussed to death
here.
I vaguely remember there were one or two dissenters, but you can't
please everyone.
Surely you mean get a worse one!
|
A dictionary defines language as it is used. Since this usage is both
common and accepted, a better dictionary would let you know about it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hagrinas Mivali
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:40 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
|
|
Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' ) wrote:
| Quote: | Sara Lorimer wrote:
The obituary for David Shulman, "a self-described Sherlock Holmes of
Americanisms," in today's New York Times not only quotes AUE's Jesse
Sheidlower (for some odd reason, though, they don't mention AUE)
The media still doesn't know about usenet. They know about blogs, the
web, people downloading music on peer to peer networks. They don't
know about usenet. I don't know why.
|
Is this a problem? If they did talk about Usenet, AUE would not be the
relevant part. They would have to talk about how it can be used for
dowloading music, or how it has been used for downloading porn since before
the web existed. Let's try not to get an inflated sense of importance here.
Porn rulez! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hagrinas Mivali
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:42 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
|
|
CyberCypher wrote:
| Quote: | Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' ) wrote on 08 Nov
2004:
[...]
So now I'm set in sand ready for the cement with the folks using
singular they? Is that where me should be?
You should be wherever you want to be on that point of contention.
Nobody cares but you and your publisher, and if you don't have a
publisher other than Usenet, nobody really cares at all. If you
haven't figured that out by now, you are in trouble.
|
So that's what being in trouble is all about. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steve Hayes
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:18 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
|
|
On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 19:04:21 +1100, "Dylan Nicholson" <wizofaus@hotmail.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Although the mid-paragraph plural-to-singular switch is a little awkward,
I wouldn't call it Oy!-able. "The media" is a singular collective noun.
"They" can only sensibly refer to the individuals that make up the
media (journalists, etc.). "It knows about blogs..." etc. sounds
equally clumsy anyway.
|
So print, radio and film are three different mediae?
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dylan Nicholson
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:16 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
|
|
"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:418fbe4b.45338114@news.saix.net...
| Quote: | On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 19:04:21 +1100, "Dylan Nicholson" <wizofaus@hotmail.com
wrote:
Although the mid-paragraph plural-to-singular switch is a little awkward,
I wouldn't call it Oy!-able. "The media" is a singular collective noun.
"They" can only sensibly refer to the individuals that make up the
media (journalists, etc.). "It knows about blogs..." etc. sounds
equally clumsy anyway.
So print, radio and film are three different mediae?
Indeed, and they all have their own agendae. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in