| Author |
Message |
Sara Lorimer
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:33 am
Post subject: a doozy of an obituary |
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The obituary for David Shulman, "a self-described Sherlock Holmes of
Americanisms," in today's New York Times not only quotes AUE's Jesse
Sheidlower (for some odd reason, though, they don't mention AUE) and
states that a hot dog is a sausage.
"Mr. Shulman avoided excessive modesty, letting it drop that he was at
least temporarily the last word on words that included 'The Great White
Way,' 'Big Apple,' 'doozy,' 'hoochie-coochie.'"
<http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/07/nyregion/07shulman.html>
--
SML
Dignity, always dignity.
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Bill Bonde ( ``And the La
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:11 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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Sara Lorimer wrote:
| Quote: |
The obituary for David Shulman, "a self-described Sherlock Holmes of
Americanisms," in today's New York Times not only quotes AUE's Jesse
Sheidlower (for some odd reason, though, they don't mention AUE)
The media still doesn't know about usenet. They know about blogs, the |
web, people downloading music on peer to peer networks. They don't know
about usenet. I don't know why.
--
The Republicans are going for the Dem jugular in 2008 with Pataki or
Giuliani for president, putting New York state in play, and Condi or
Colin for vice president, putting the black American vote into play. The
Dem response is to run Hillary. Hilarious. |
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Jitze Couperus
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:59 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 12:33:19 -0500, que.sara.saraDELETE@gmail.com (Sara
Lorimer) wrote:
| Quote: | The obituary for David Shulman, "a self-described Sherlock Holmes of
Americanisms," in today's New York Times not only quotes AUE's Jesse
Sheidlower (for some odd reason, though, they don't mention AUE) and
states that a hot dog is a sausage.
"Mr. Shulman avoided excessive modesty, letting it drop that he was at
least temporarily the last word on words that included 'The Great White
Way,' 'Big Apple,' 'doozy,' 'hoochie-coochie.'"
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/07/nyregion/07shulman.html
|
While in aue circles he is probably more noted for his expertise
in words, he was also skilled in matters cryptographic - at least of
the kind practised prior to computers becoming popular, and was
one of the founders of American Cryptogram Association
http://www.cryptogram.org/
Jitze
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Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:22 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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Sara "Muffy" Lorimer kirjoitti:
| Quote: | The obituary for David Shulman, "a self-described Sherlock Holmes of
Americanisms," in today's New York Times not only quotes AUE's Jesse
Sheidlower (for some odd reason, though, they don't mention AUE) and
states that a hot dog is a sausage.
"Mr. Shulman avoided excessive modesty, letting it drop that he was
at least temporarily the last word
|
[...]
I love this coy euphemism, "[he] avoided excessive modesty."
| Quote: | http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/07/nyregion/07shulman.html
|
The following quote from that _NYT_ article contains a major error:
| Quote: | Mr. Cohen said that Mr. Shulman was first to challenge that
"shyster" derived from a lawyer named Scheuster. Others,
particularly Roger Mohovich, then traced the etymology to
1843-1844. "Shyster" turned out to be a Yiddish corruption
of a German vulgarism meaning a crooked lawyer.
|
Dr. Cohen, a good friend of mine who published one or two books on the
etymology of "shyster," is misquoted by the confused _NYT_ writer.
"Shyster" is *not* "a Yiddish corruption of a German vulgarism meaning a
crooked lawyer," because the German noun "Scheisser" (lit., 'shitter')
does *not* mean 'lawyer,' crooked or otherwise.
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Quasi-dogmatic Philologist
Frequently avoiding excessive modesty
http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/pricelist_order.html |
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Steve MacGregor
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:17 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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"Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' )"
<stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote in message
news:418E734F.F58F4358@backpacker.com...
| Quote: | The media still doesn't know about usenet.
|
Why do you say they doesn't know about Usenet? Why don't you say that
they =don't= know?
--
Steve |
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CyberCypher
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:26 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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Steve MacGregor wrote on 08 Nov 2004:
| Quote: | "Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' )"
stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote in message
news:418E734F.F58F4358@backpacker.com...
The media still doesn't know about usenet.
Why do you say they doesn't know about Usenet? Why don't you say
that they =don't= know?
Because some people consider "media" a singular collective noun that |
takes a singular verb, similar to "family", as in "My family doesn't
celebrate Christmas". Check your most recent dictionary. The AHD4, for
example:
4. pl. media Usage Problem
a. A means of mass communication, such as newpapers, magazines, radio,
or television.
b. media (used with a sing. or pl. verb) The group of journalists and
others who constitute the communications industry and profession.
5. pl. media Computer Science An object or device, such as a disk, on
which data is stored.
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet. |
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Bill Bonde ( ``And the La
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:26 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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Steve MacGregor wrote:
| Quote: |
"Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' )"
stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote in message
news:418E734F.F58F4358@backpacker.com...
The media still doesn't know about usenet.
Why do you say they doesn't know about Usenet? Why don't you say that
they =don't= know?
Don't be such a porc chop. |
--
The Republicans are going for the Dem jugular in 2008 with Pataki or
Giuliani for president, putting New York state in play, and Condi or
Colin for vice president, putting the black American vote into play. The
Dem response is to run Hillary. Hilarious. |
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Freddy
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:00 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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"CyberCypher" <cybercypher@19-16-25-13-01-03.com> wrote in message
news:Xns959B55E9792EAcctxt2002@130.133.1.4...
| Quote: | Steve MacGregor wrote on 08 Nov 2004:
"Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' )"
stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote in message
news:418E734F.F58F4358@backpacker.com...
The media still doesn't know about usenet.
Why do you say they doesn't know about Usenet? Why don't you say
that they =don't= know?
Because some people consider "media" a singular collective noun that
takes a singular verb, similar to "family", as in "My family doesn't
celebrate Christmas". Check your most recent dictionary. The AHD4, for
example:
4. pl. media Usage Problem
a. A means of mass communication, such as newpapers, magazines, radio,
or television.
b. media (used with a sing. or pl. verb) The group of journalists and
others who constitute the communications industry and profession.
5. pl. media Computer Science An object or device, such as a disk, on
which data is stored.
--
My dictionaries define media as a plural of medium. There is no mention |
of it being a collective noun. |
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Dylan Nicholson
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:07 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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"Freddy" <ant@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:njBjd.380$3U4.36762@news02.tsnz.net...
| Quote: |
"CyberCypher" <cybercypher@19-16-25-13-01-03.com> wrote in message
news:Xns959B55E9792EAcctxt2002@130.133.1.4...
Because some people consider "media" a singular collective noun that
takes a singular verb, similar to "family", as in "My family doesn't
celebrate Christmas". Check your most recent dictionary. The AHD4, for
example:
4. pl. media Usage Problem
a. A means of mass communication, such as newpapers, magazines, radio,
or television.
b. media (used with a sing. or pl. verb) The group of journalists and
others who constitute the communications industry and profession.
5. pl. media Computer Science An object or device, such as a disk, on
which data is stored.
--
My dictionaries define media as a plural of medium. There is no mention
of it being a collective noun.
Get a better one then. This has already been discussed to death here. |
I vaguely remember there were one or two dissenters, but you can't please
everyone. |
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Freddy
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:25 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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"Dylan Nicholson" <wizofaus@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2v8672F2h60puU1@uni-berlin.de...
| Quote: | "Freddy" <ant@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:njBjd.380$3U4.36762@news02.tsnz.net...
"CyberCypher" <cybercypher@19-16-25-13-01-03.com> wrote in message
news:Xns959B55E9792EAcctxt2002@130.133.1.4...
Because some people consider "media" a singular collective noun that
takes a singular verb, similar to "family", as in "My family doesn't
celebrate Christmas". Check your most recent dictionary. The AHD4, for
example:
4. pl. media Usage Problem
a. A means of mass communication, such as newpapers, magazines, radio,
or television.
b. media (used with a sing. or pl. verb) The group of journalists and
others who constitute the communications industry and profession.
5. pl. media Computer Science An object or device, such as a disk, on
which data is stored.
--
My dictionaries define media as a plural of medium. There is no
mention
of it being a collective noun.
Get a better one then. This has already been discussed to death here.
I vaguely remember there were one or two dissenters, but you can't please
everyone.
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Surely you mean get a worse one!
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Stan Brown
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:11 am
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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"CyberCypher" <cybercypher@19-16-25-13-01-03.com> wrote in
alt.usage.english:
| Quote: | Steve MacGregor wrote on 08 Nov 2004:
"Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' )"
stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote in message
news:418E734F.F58F4358@backpacker.com...
The media still doesn't know about usenet.
Why do you say they doesn't know about Usenet? Why don't you say
that they =don't= know?
Because some people consider "media" a singular collective noun that
takes a singular verb, similar to "family", as in "My family doesn't
celebrate Christmas"
|
We're certainly tending in that direction, what with fewer and fewer
people concentrating media ownership in their hands. But still there
is more than one medium.
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
"And if you're afraid of butter, which many people are nowa-
days, (long pause) you just put in cream." --Julia Child |
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Ben Zimmer
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:38 pm
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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Reinhold (Rey) Aman wrote:
| Quote: | http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/07/nyregion/07shulman.html
The following quote from that _NYT_ article contains a major error:
Mr. Cohen said that Mr. Shulman was first to challenge that
"shyster" derived from a lawyer named Scheuster. Others,
particularly Roger Mohovich, then traced the etymology to
1843-1844. "Shyster" turned out to be a Yiddish corruption
of a German vulgarism meaning a crooked lawyer.
Dr. Cohen, a good friend of mine who published one or two books on the
etymology of "shyster," is misquoted by the confused _NYT_ writer.
"Shyster" is *not* "a Yiddish corruption of a German vulgarism meaning a
crooked lawyer," because the German noun "Scheisser" (lit., 'shitter')
does *not* mean 'lawyer,' crooked or otherwise.
|
Dr. Cohen corrected that point (and some other goofs made by the Times
writer) in a post on the American Dialect Society listserv:
http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0411A&L=ads-l&P=R9049
"Shyster" has nothing to do with Yiddish. It derives from
German Sheisser, which is indeed vulgar (from scheissen) and
highly derogatory as in "ein alter Scheisser", cf. "alter
Kacker." Scheisser entered British cant as "shiser" (well
attested), meaning "someone totally worthless." (The original
reference in German was to someone who couldn't control his
bowels.) The lawyer (albeit not bona fide) Cornelius Terhune
used this term "shiser" in his conversation with NYC editor
Mike Walsh, and in the context of the conversation Walsh
interepreted the term to refer to the worthless, corrupt
lawyers (not bona fide!) who were scamming the prisoners in
the NYC prison known as The Tombs. Walsh inveighed against
that practice.
Also, "Others, particularly Roger Mohovich" is a bit vague.
Roger Mohovich deserves sole credit for discovering the
1843-1844 _Subterranean_ material on "shyster."and I then
developed it. Unless something is slipping my mind, no one
else besides the two of us was involved. |
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CyberCypher
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:43 pm
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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Freddy wrote on 08 Nov 2004:
[...]
| Quote: | My dictionaries define media as a plural of medium. There is no
mention of it being a collective noun.
|
You don't have the right dictionaries. But, more important, you don't
understand that regardless of what the plural of the singular New Latin
noun "medium" is in New Latin --- and it's "media" --- in contemporary
English usage, like the plural Latin noun "data", the Latin plural form
is used as a singular, even by allegedly educated native anglophones,
and accepted as such by publishers and linguistics professors and
grammarians. In the world of living languages, usage rules, not the
grammar rules of dead ancient languages. That means that language
changes. Even those of us who do not like changes that betray the
users' ignorance and, possibly, stupidity, we are forced to accept the
ineluctable fact of change for the better or worse, and we can only
call it "different".
The only sane response to such language changes is to align oneself
with the proponents of choice and not with the moralistic enemy who
believe that everyone ought to do it their way. This stance works when
applied to political issues as well, as anyone familiar with the
boringly endless battles about abortion, same-sex marriage, flag-
burning, stem-cell research, and other such sociopolitical problems.
You must take comfort in your speaking and writing the language
perfectly correctly, in secretly sniggering at those who don't, and in
feeling refreshed by your obvious superiority.
When pedants such as yourself unite, the rest of the world fails to
take notice. Take heed. Nobody else cares.
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet. |
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Steve Hayes
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:18 pm
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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On 8 Nov 2004 00:26:30 GMT, CyberCypher <cybercypher@19-16-25-13-01-03.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Steve MacGregor wrote on 08 Nov 2004:
"Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on Broadway'' )"
stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote in message
news:418E734F.F58F4358@backpacker.com...
The media still doesn't know about usenet.
Why do you say they doesn't know about Usenet? Why don't you say
that they =don't= know?
Because some people consider "media" a singular collective noun that
takes a singular verb, similar to "family", as in "My family doesn't
celebrate Christmas". Check your most recent dictionary. The AHD4, for
example:
|
And "they" is a singular collective pronoun.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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Steve Hayes
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:18 pm
Post subject: Re: a doozy of an obituary |
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On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 11:11:11 -0800, "Bill Bonde ( ``And the Lamb lies down on
Broadway'' )" <stderr2@backpacker.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Sara Lorimer wrote:
The obituary for David Shulman, "a self-described Sherlock Holmes of
Americanisms," in today's New York Times not only quotes AUE's Jesse
Sheidlower (for some odd reason, though, they don't mention AUE)
The media still doesn't know about usenet. They know about blogs, the
web, people downloading music on peer to peer networks. They don't know
about usenet. I don't know why.
|
Oy!
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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