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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Mongrels |
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On 7 Nov 2004 22:30:32 -0800, R H Draney <dadoctah@spamcop.net> wrote:
| Quote: | don groves filted:
In article <20041107122535.06111.00000114@mb-m23.aol.com>,
Rushtown at rushtown@aol.com poured forth...
Yes, certain characteristics do tend to stand out, country to country,
no matter what anyone says. More obvious in women than in men, at
least to me, but there exists a purity and even innocence of facial
expression in Ireland that is noticeably lacking in the US.
The Irish are a mixed race. The reason for the freckles is that a light
skinned race mixed with a dark skinned race. The prevalence of green eyes also
show racial mixture.
Good looks come from even features and overall genetic health. Crossing breeds
increases the health of the offspring, ie hybrid vigor. That's why ranchers
introduce new blood into their cattle every so often.
Charles didn't mention "good looks" and I think with good reason.
Physical robustness and mental alertness show in our faces. The
purity of expression Charles does mention are manifestations of
this as well as lack of stress. Faces that show interest in life
rather than boredom and disconnectedness are pretty to me no
matter how they measure up to standards of "good looks".
In re the original question of the beauty of "pure" races: I've seen many a
stunning person of heritage mixed six ways from Sunday...still, there's
something glorious about the looks of a person from just about any part of the
world who could pass for his or her ancestor of a thousand or more years
ago....r
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Glorious and reassuring. When I see a pretty colleen whose face is
much like all the other pretty colleens, yet different enough to make
her face unique, I feel that all is right with the world. Conversely,
when I see features lobbed onto a face in unexpected, even ungodly
ways, I can't help thinking something is amiss.
Greeks should look like Greeks, Italians like Italians, Irish like the
Irish, and so on, if the world is have some order, with men and women
at peace. "And so on" except for the highly-mixed Americans, for no
generalizations on their looks, leaving out their weight, can be made.
--
Charles Riggs
They are no accented letters in my email address
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Mongrels |
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On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 12:42:27 -0600, Michael Nitabach
<mnitabach@acedsl.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "Adrian Bailey" <dadge@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:Xktjd.3686$hp4.1432@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk:
"Charles Riggs" <chriggs@comcást.net> wrote in message
news:k4fso09cof9014fv4tps0ntlblj8m0d83k@4ax.com...
A mongrel dog, as opposed to a purebred, may make for a better
dog as some claim, but if a parallel can be drawn between dogs
and men (Hi, Dena), I wouldn't say the mixing of breeds, or
"races", improves the appearance of the offspring in either case.
Oh dear.
Indeed.
|
These two snippets presumably hide such profound thoughts that only
the two writers or God could elaborate on them. Easy to criticize,
easy to hide, easy to say nothing while pretending otherwise. Not so
easy to make a statement and take a stand: to put your balls on the
line, in other words.
--
Charles Riggs
They are no accented letters in my email address |
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Robin Bignall
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Mongrels |
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On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 18:43:12 -0500, "Maria Conlon"
<mariaconlon001@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Robin Bignall wrote:
Maria Conlon wrote:
So, the old saying "you can't tell a book by its cover" was proved
yet again to be a good guideline.
In that case, maybe we ruling males should ban makeup. <Smiley
Wouldn't bother me. I generally don't wear makeup.
Be warned, though, that even *attempting* to ban makeup could get you
into some serious, much-to-be-regretted trouble. Not all women have the
same attitude about makeup as I do. (And men should probably be grateful
for that.)
By the way, I notice you picked up on what I said "Mr" stands for.
Surely, you understand that I was joking, Robin....
Of course, Tootsie. That's why I added a rare smiley. |
That old saying reminds me of a joke I first heard during the Teddy
Boy era (around 1955 in the UK).
Teddy Boy takes Teddy Girl to bed for the first time.
TB: Where's the long, blonde hair and the fabulous tits?
TG: Hanging in the wardrobe with your shoulders.
--
wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall
Hertfordshire
England
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Jim Ward
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Mongrels |
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On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 10:51:16 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
<d.phillipson@ttrryytteell.com> wrote:
| Quote: | The documentation on "hybrid vigour" may deal adequately
with the empirical point that appearance is valued by some
animal owners but not by others.
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I had read recently that all Labs were originally Black Labs - the
rest of the colors were bred into. If this is true, does anyone know
if the colored Labs are any different, dog-wise, than the Black ones? |
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Joe Fineman
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:12 am
Post subject: Re: Mongrels |
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Charles Riggs <chriggs@comcást.net> writes:
| Quote: | A mongrel dog, as opposed to a purebred, may make for a better dog
as some claim, but if a parallel can be drawn between dogs and men
(Hi, Dena), I wouldn't say the mixing of breeds, or "races",
improves the appearance of the offspring in either case.
|
Surely it is sometimes for the better & sometimes for the worse. When
we approve of mongrels, we call them hybrids, and we speak of hybrid
vigor. The U.S. might well be taken as an example -- tho, of course,
in a human situation, it would be difficult to disentangle the effects
of mixing cultures & the effects of mixing genomes.
| Quote: | I think the evidence is clear when it comes to dogs -- as nice as a
mutt may be, purebreds are more cherished, particularly when it
comes to appearance, and for good reason.
|
People say that purebred cats are apt to be neurotic. I don't know,
but it seems plausible that a pure line has some advantages & some
disadvantages, depending on the cat's or dog's purposes & yours. It
would not surprise me to learn that purebred cats are better at
winning prizes, but mongrels are better at catching mice or at
continuing to lie on your lap & purr when you scratch them behind the
ears. In the case of humans, of course, the variety of purposes one
might have in mind is vastly greater, and the variety of hereditary
influences on their suitability for those purposes is vastly subtler.
| Quote: | On arriving in Chicago, almost entirely gone from view were the
well-defined, clearly-drawn features of the Irish and the English
faces I'd become particularly accustomed to, among the various
Europeans faces I've known, not that I'm unfamiliar with some other
varieties of humans on that great continent, both from an appearance
standpoint and also behavioral ones, but that my be a more
complicated subject best left for another post.
|
There is a certain bar in Jamaica Plain, Boston, MA, whose charm, for
me, is partly in the variety of the customers' faces. Perhaps not
many of them are maps of Ireland, but they are maps of something
ornery & probably more valuable than a nation. The buzz of their
conversation drowns out the TV & thereby, once, made even a
presidential press conference bearable.
--
--- Joe Fineman joe_f@verizon.net
||: Life is one long process of getting tired.  | |
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Hagrinas Mivali
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:13 am
Post subject: Re: Mongrels |
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Charles Riggs wrote:
| Quote: | A mongrel dog, as opposed to a purebred, may make for a better dog as
some claim, but if a parallel can be drawn between dogs and men (Hi,
Dena), I wouldn't say the mixing of breeds, or "races", improves the
appearance of the offspring in either case.
|
Humans are not only all of the same genus and species, they are also all of
the same subspecies. If you want to classify people by race, it's up to you
to be a racist. Biologically, there's no such concept.
Clearly, this is a subjective issue, and the only consensus that could be
drawn is that your views on racial purity coincide with your views on
desired appearance. If you believe that "Greeks should look like Greeks,
Italians like Italians, Irish like the Irish, and so on," do you also
believe that Chinese should look like Chinese, Koreans should look like
Koreans, and Vietnamese should look like Vietnamese? Would a mixture of
either of these be an abomonation? Would you have a problem with somebody
who is half Kenyan and half Ethiopian?
The fact is that all white people look alike and there are about a billion
people who can back me up on this.
Inbreeding causes defects. |
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Michael Nitabach
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:07 am
Post subject: Re: Mongrels |
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Charles Riggs <chriggs@comcást.net> wrote in
news:1qfuo0do18qfk4e506qgrh7md3ijmq0scg@4ax.com:
| Quote: | On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 12:42:27 -0600, Michael Nitabach
mnitabach@acedsl.com> wrote:
"Adrian Bailey" <dadge@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:Xktjd.3686$hp4.1432@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk:
"Charles Riggs" <chriggs@comcást.net> wrote in message
news:k4fso09cof9014fv4tps0ntlblj8m0d83k@4ax.com...
A mongrel dog, as opposed to a purebred, may make for a better
dog as some claim, but if a parallel can be drawn between dogs
and men (Hi, Dena), I wouldn't say the mixing of breeds, or
"races", improves the appearance of the offspring in either
case.
Oh dear.
Indeed.
These two snippets presumably hide such profound thoughts that
only the two writers or God could elaborate on them.
|
The thoughts behind my comment are far from profound.
| Quote: | Easy to criticize,
easy to hide, easy to say nothing while pretending otherwise.
|
No easier than it is to hide anger, hate, and nastiness behind a
facade of intellectualism or aestheticism.
| Quote: | Not so
easy to make a statement and take a stand: to put your balls on
the line, in other words.
|
You confuse spleen-venting with stand-taking.
--
Mike Nitabach |
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Petter Hesselberg
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Mongrels |
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Hagrinas Mivali wrote:
| Quote: | _snip_
The fact is that all white people look alike and there are about a
billion people who can back me up on this.
|
That reminds me of a M*A*S*H episode that has a Korean saying, "You
palefaces all look the same to us." (Quoting from memory; the wording
is probably off.)
--
Petter Hesselberg
http://www.petterhesselberg.com/ |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Mongrels |
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Petter Hesselberg typed thus:
| Quote: | Hagrinas Mivali wrote:
_snip_
The fact is that all white people look alike and there are about a
billion people who can back me up on this.
That reminds me of a M*A*S*H episode that has a Korean saying, "You
palefaces all look the same to us." (Quoting from memory; the wording
is probably off.)
|
If it's the episode I'm thinking of, it's a Korean friend of Hawkeye
who impersonates a Korean General, and then returns shortly
afterwards as a civilian. The Colonel says "Do I recognise you from
somewhere?" and he replies, "You know how it is - we all look alike."
--
David
=====
replace the first component of address
with the definite article. |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Mongrels |
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Areff typed thus:
| Quote: | the Omrud wrote:
Petter Hesselberg typed thus:
That reminds me of a M*A*S*H episode that has a Korean saying, "You
palefaces all look the same to us." (Quoting from memory; the wording
is probably off.)
If it's the episode I'm thinking of, it's a Korean friend of Hawkeye
who impersonates a Korean General, and then returns shortly
afterwards as a civilian. The Colonel says "Do I recognise you from
somewhere?" and he replies, "You know how it is - we all look alike."
Hmm. I remember it slightly differently:
Korean: You know how it is - we all look alike.
[LAUGH TRACK]
|
That's because you didn't have the benefit of the BBC2 non-laugh-
track version.
--
David
=====
replace the first component of address
with the definite article. |
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Mongrels |
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the Omrud wrote:
| Quote: | Petter Hesselberg typed thus:
That reminds me of a M*A*S*H episode that has a Korean saying, "You
palefaces all look the same to us." (Quoting from memory; the wording
is probably off.)
If it's the episode I'm thinking of, it's a Korean friend of Hawkeye
who impersonates a Korean General, and then returns shortly
afterwards as a civilian. The Colonel says "Do I recognise you from
somewhere?" and he replies, "You know how it is - we all look alike."
|
Hmm. I remember it slightly differently:
Korean: You know how it is - we all look alike.
[LAUGH TRACK]
--
Steny '08! |
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Sara Lorimer
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Mongrels |
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the Omrud wrote:
| Quote: | Petter Hesselberg typed thus:
Hagrinas Mivali wrote:
_snip_
The fact is that all white people look alike and there are about a
billion people who can back me up on this.
That reminds me of a M*A*S*H episode that has a Korean saying, "You
palefaces all look the same to us." (Quoting from memory; the wording
is probably off.)
If it's the episode I'm thinking of, it's a Korean friend of Hawkeye
who impersonates a Korean General, and then returns shortly
afterwards as a civilian. The Colonel says "Do I recognise you from
somewhere?" and he replies, "You know how it is - we all look alike."
|
A Korean acquaintance said that to me, in all seriousness, after she
couldn't tell apart two white women I'd introduced her to.
--
SML
Dignity, always dignity. |
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Mongrels |
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On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:12:12 GMT, Joe Fineman <joe_f@verizon.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | Charles Riggs <chriggs@comcást.net> writes:
On arriving in Chicago, almost entirely gone from view were the
well-defined, clearly-drawn features of the Irish and the English
faces I'd become particularly accustomed to, among the various
Europeans faces I've known, not that I'm unfamiliar with some other
varieties of humans on that great continent, both from an appearance
standpoint and also behavioral ones, but that my be a more
complicated subject best left for another post.
There is a certain bar in Jamaica Plain, Boston, MA, whose charm, for
me, is partly in the variety of the customers' faces. Perhaps not
many of them are maps of Ireland, but they are maps of something
ornery & probably more valuable than a nation. The buzz of their
conversation drowns out the TV & thereby, once, made even a
presidential press conference bearable.
|
I'm glad for you, there.
As for variety in faces, that sounds fine to me, theoretically. What
though if the variety leads not to increase the aggregate beauty of
the group being viewed but to decrease it? Too much variety, and that
is bound to happen. I say this because features that vary far from the
expected norm are not considered attractive by most people. You know,
huge noses, unmatched ears, extremely bushy eyebrows outside of
Russia, that sort of thing.
The Irish face is, nine times out of ten, a relatively attractive
face. I found some consolation knowing I was unlikely to be shocked by
what I saw when walking along a footpath in Ireland or venturing into
a pub. Here in America, who knows? Your man could be from anywhere or
be a combination of anything. Very scary.
--
Charles Riggs
They are no accented letters in my email address |
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Mongrels |
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On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 11:13:02 -0800, "Hagrinas Mivali"
<remove.to.reply@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
Charles Riggs wrote:
A mongrel dog, as opposed to a purebred, may make for a better dog as
some claim, but if a parallel can be drawn between dogs and men (Hi,
Dena), I wouldn't say the mixing of breeds, or "races", improves the
appearance of the offspring in either case.
Humans are not only all of the same genus and species, they are also all of
the same subspecies. If you want to classify people by race, it's up to you
to be a racist. Biologically, there's no such concept.
|
You'll note I put "races" in quotes. You won't deny that Swedes don't
often look like Chinese. Call the reason for the differences what you
will. Frankly, I don't know a term that accurately refers to the
reason for them, so I was used "races".
| Quote: | Clearly, this is a subjective issue, and the only consensus that could be
drawn is that your views on racial purity coincide with your views on
desired appearance. If you believe that "Greeks should look like Greeks,
Italians like Italians, Irish like the Irish, and so on," do you also
believe that Chinese should look like Chinese, Koreans should look like
Koreans, and Vietnamese should look like Vietnamese? Would a mixture of
either of these be an abomonation? Would you have a problem with somebody
who is half Kenyan and half Ethiopian?
|
I know and you know that certain mixtures can produce some lovely
results. Who can say for all the possibilities though? For sure I'm
safe in saying that I find many Swedish women very attractive and that
I find very few Korean women or men so. That is, as you say,
subjective or else there would be far more Swedes and far fewer
Koreans.
| Quote: | The fact is that all white people look alike and there are about a billion
people who can back me up on this.
|
I'm white, but I'm not one of those whites who say all black people
look alike. They might had I not known so many of them. For that
reason Chinese people all look much alike to me. Sure, I can recognize
Andy when I see him, but I wouldn't be nearly as good at remembering a
new Chinese face as I would at remembering a new Irish face because
I've know relatively few Chinese people.
| Quote: | Inbreeding causes defects.
|
Yes, but we weren't talking about inbreeding. Don't screw your sister,
but here are a whole lot of people in any of the groups we've
mentioned to choose from.
--
Charles Riggs
They are no accented letters in my email address |
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 9:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Mongrels |
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Charles Riggs wrote:
| Quote: | As for variety in faces, that sounds fine to me, theoretically. What
though if the variety leads not to increase the aggregate beauty of
the group being viewed but to decrease it? Too much variety, and that
is bound to happen. I say this because features that vary far from the
expected norm are not considered attractive by most people. You know,
huge noses, unmatched ears, extremely bushy eyebrows outside of
Russia, that sort of thing.
|
Do you see much variety oop in Bellingham? I ask because I have had some
experience of temporarily residing in the Puget Sound region and one thing
I have been struck by is that, if you focus on the regional natives of
visible European descent, there seems to me to be a lot of uniformity of
appearance -- a vaguely "Appalachian" look that seems to predominate (=
TCE "seems to be predominate").
--
Steny '08! |
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