| Author |
Message |
Raymond S. Wise
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:06 pm
Post subject: Re: When semioticists attack (was: Book recommendations for |
|
|
"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41945ea6.88137493@news.saix.net...
| Quote: | On 12 Nov 2004 02:53:50 GMT, mjhardy@mit.edu (Michael J Hardy) wrote:
Raymond S. Wise (mplsrayNOSPAM@gbronline.com) wrote:
Nicaea (now called Nice) -> Nicene, as in "Nicene Creed."
(The adjective now associated with Nice in French is
You gotta be kidding.
Nicaea's in what is now Turkey and was then essentially
part of Greece (even though Greece was not a state but
an amorphous vaguely defined region). They wrote in Greek.
Why do you think Greek Orthodox theologians can't write a
paragraph without using the word "canonical" five times?
The modern name is Iznik, not Nice.
It was part of Bithynia, and was once seat of the Roman
government-in-exile
when the Franks occupied Constantinople.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop
uk |
That's something I forgot to ask in my post citing the 1828 Webster's
dictionary. Was Noah Webster mistaken about the name "Nice," or was there
indeed a tradition of calling the Nicaea of Asia Minor "Nice"? So I looked
up "Nice" in *The Century Cyclopedia of Names* at www.century-dictionary.com
.. I found the following: "*Nice* (in Bithynia). See _Nicæa._"
The first entry for "Nicæa" (and here I use ASCII IPA to represent the
pronunciation) is "*Nicæa* /naI'si@/, Anglicized as *Nice* /nis/. [...] In
ancient geography, a town in Bithynia, Asia Minor [...] : the modern
Isnik." So Noah Webster was in fact following an existing tradition.
Also, the entries in the Century Cyclopedia show that there *was* a
tradition of using the "ae" ligature, "Nicæa," which is the question I was
trying to answer when I looked up "Nicene" in the 1828 Webster's dictionary.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Richard R. Hershberger
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Post subject: Re: When semioticists attack (was: Book recommendations for |
|
|
Jim Ward <tomcatpolka@NyOaShPoAoM.com> wrote in message news:<aan5p01oakp5ri7k7ejko83ulq57ljv6au@4ax.com>...
| Quote: | On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:23:09 +0000, Wood Avens
woodavens@askjennison.com> wrote:
On 10 Nov 2004 14:09:35 -0800, "jerry_friedman@yahoo.com"
jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote:
So far I've recommended it to two people who told me they loved _The
Davinci Code_ (which I don't think I'm going to read). I wonder what
happened.
The DaVinci Code's principal merit is that it's shorter than Foucault.
Other merits include ... hmmm ... No, I can't think of any right now.
I liked the part about Mary Magdalene was Jesus' lover, which
generated some dinner conversation. It also made me inspect "The Last
Supper" a little closer, but John still looks like a guy to me.
|
Old news: watch (or better yet, read) _The Last Temptation of
Christ_. I suspect the idea is much older than that.
| Quote: |
I guess Magdala -> Magdalene follows the same rule as Alexandria -
Alexandrine. There may be other examples, I can't think of one.
|
Jesus of Nazareth -> Jesus the Nazarene.
Richard R. Hershberger |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Richard R. Hershberger
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:02 pm
Post subject: Re: When semioticists attack (was: Book recommendations for |
|
|
Laura F Spira <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote in message news:<4192933F.2000506@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk>...
| Quote: | jerry_friedman@yahoo.com wrote:
R H Draney wrote:
Ross Howard filted:
=>As for Foucault's Pendulum, I disliked it intensely:
So far I've recommended it to two people who told me they loved _The
Davinci Code_ (which I don't think I'm going to read). I wonder what
happened.
The Da Vinci Code was sufficiently gripping to distract me during my
first trip on Eurostar (I was extremely nervous) but even as I was
turning the pages (clever structure: lots of short chapters ending with
cliff-hangers) I was conscious that it was very badly written. During
the journey I noticed seven other people reading it. When the last Harry
Potter book came out I saw lots of people reading it on trains and
buses. I wonder why it seems so odd to see people all reading the same
book?
|
We don't think of ourselves as having a common book culture. TV and
sports, yes: we expect to be able to talk about yesterday's superbowl
game with random people. But a book being that ubiquitous is unusual.
Not that I am contributing to it. I have no interest in the Dan
Brown book, and I only got halfway through the second Harry Potter
book. My current train book is _Grammar and Good Taste: Reforming
the American Language_ by Dennis E. Baron. I don't expect to see
anyone else on the train reading it.
Richard R. Hershberger |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mickwick
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Book recommendations for Christmas and 2005. |
|
|
In alt.usage.english, Robin Bignall wrote:
| Quote: | You have to watch out for the impolite ones, too. I used to go to
meetings of a club for SF writers and hangers-on in the early 1960s.
Michael Moorcock, who really was built like a brick shithouse, used to
snatch people's cigarettes and drop them into their drinks. He thought
it was funny.
|
As people do now. Either Mr Moorcock was drinking from a crystal ball or
he was an intolerant neurotic born before his time.
--
Mickwick |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mickwick
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Book recommendations for Christmas and 2005. |
|
|
In alt.usage.english, jerry_friedman@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | *wipes eyes* Thank you!
|
Thank you! (Wipes eyes, blows nose, hits bottle.)
--
Mickwick |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mickwick
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Book recommendations for Christmas and 2005. |
|
|
In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote:
| Quote: | Mickwick typed thus:
I'll never mention it again.
But I might. I am seriously impressed that a book changed your life
so thoroughly.
|
Hmmm. A strange emphasis in that sentence. It is (perhaps) impressive
that a book could have derailed someone; it's not impressive that
someone could have allowed himself to be derailed by a book. (There's a
joke about the wrong kind of leaves in there somewhere.)
Flattery cloaking irritation? I'm not suggesting anything deliberate. I
just get the impression that Illuminatus! is important to you in a
particularly male sort of way. Males like to define themselves by a
private 'ownership' of various very public things - books, records ...
in my case, it used to be entire countries. I haven't read any Nick
Hornby but I reckon his books are probably full of such defining
'ownerships'. And I reckon you might be a bit peeved to find that other
people have, or have had, similar claims on your defining 'possession'
(as I used to be when someone talked about having visited one of 'my'
countries).
If I'm right about this: (a) Sorry. (b) You can have it. (c) If you
don't want it any more see (a).
If I'm wrong: See (a).
--
Mickwick |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
the Omrud
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:06 am
Post subject: Re: Book recommendations for Christmas and 2005. |
|
|
Mickwick typed thus:
| Quote: | In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote:
Mickwick typed thus:
I'll never mention it again.
But I might. I am seriously impressed that a book changed your life
so thoroughly.
Hmmm. A strange emphasis in that sentence. It is (perhaps) impressive
that a book could have derailed someone; it's not impressive that
someone could have allowed himself to be derailed by a book. (There's a
joke about the wrong kind of leaves in there somewhere.)
Flattery cloaking irritation? I'm not suggesting anything deliberate. I
just get the impression that Illuminatus! is important to you in a
particularly male sort of way. Males like to define themselves by a
private 'ownership' of various very public things - books, records ...
in my case, it used to be entire countries. I haven't read any Nick
Hornby but I reckon his books are probably full of such defining
'ownerships'. And I reckon you might be a bit peeved to find that other
people have, or have had, similar claims on your defining 'possession'
(as I used to be when someone talked about having visited one of 'my'
countries).
If I'm right about this: (a) Sorry. (b) You can have it. (c) If you
don't want it any more see (a).
If I'm wrong: See (a).
|
No apology required, in any case. Actually, I wasn't even thinking
about *which* book it was by the time I came to write that - I meant
what I said (which I usually do), that it is impressive that a book
changed your life.
I didn't actually intend to flatter - it is an impressive fact,
rather than an impressive action on your part. No irritation.
And yes, I know that I am different from most people, and I don't
mind that. Who else do you know who plays the bassoon?
Now you have to tell me which countries you own.
--
David
=====
replace the first component of address
with the definite article. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steve Hayes
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:04 am
Post subject: Re: When semioticists attack (was: Book recommendations for |
|
|
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 04:48:23 -0600, "Raymond S. Wise"
<mplsrayNOSPAM@gbronline.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:41945ea6.88137493@news.saix.net...
On 12 Nov 2004 02:53:50 GMT, mjhardy@mit.edu (Michael J Hardy) wrote:
Raymond S. Wise (mplsrayNOSPAM@gbronline.com) wrote:
Nicaea (now called Nice) -> Nicene, as in "Nicene Creed."
(The adjective now associated with Nice in French is
You gotta be kidding.
Nicaea's in what is now Turkey and was then essentially
part of Greece (even though Greece was not a state but
an amorphous vaguely defined region). They wrote in Greek.
Why do you think Greek Orthodox theologians can't write a
paragraph without using the word "canonical" five times?
The modern name is Iznik, not Nice.
It was part of Bithynia, and was once seat of the Roman
government-in-exile
when the Franks occupied Constantinople.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop
uk
That's something I forgot to ask in my post citing the 1828 Webster's
dictionary. Was Noah Webster mistaken about the name "Nice," or was there
indeed a tradition of calling the Nicaea of Asia Minor "Nice"? So I looked
up "Nice" in *The Century Cyclopedia of Names* at www.century-dictionary.com
. I found the following: "*Nice* (in Bithynia). See _Nicæa._"
The first entry for "Nicæa" (and here I use ASCII IPA to represent the
pronunciation) is "*Nicæa* /naI'si@/, Anglicized as *Nice* /nis/. [...] In
ancient geography, a town in Bithynia, Asia Minor [...] : the modern
Isnik." So Noah Webster was in fact following an existing tradition.
Also, the entries in the Century Cyclopedia show that there *was* a
tradition of using the "ae" ligature, "Nicæa," which is the question I was
trying to answer when I looked up "Nicene" in the 1828 Webster's dictionary.
|
That it was ever called "Nice" was entirely new to me.
The only place of that name I've ever heard of is the one in the south of
France.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mickwick
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Book recommendations for Christmas and 2005. |
|
|
In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | Who else do you know who plays the bassoon?
|
I fagotto. Give-a mea cluo.
| Quote: | Now you have to tell me which countries you own.
|
I don't own any any more. I have got in touch with my feminine side
(though the house is still a mess and I still don't like biscuits).
I'll tell you one I owned for a while without ever having been there
(unless you count a brief stop at an airport), which is even sadder. I'd
been planning a motorcycle trip to Sudan and had done a lot of homework
but I couldn't get it together to get a visa (Ramadan is not the best
time for a late sleeper sans visa) so I came home. A while later I met
someone who had actually been there five or ten years before I hadn't
been there or had even thought of not going there, if you see what I
mean, yet because of all the reading and what have you I had come to
think of it as my country and was intensely irritated that this little
turd had trespassed on my property. How nerdishly, Hornbyishly male is
that?
--
Mickwick |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
the Omrud
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Book recommendations for Christmas and 2005. |
|
|
Mickwick typed thus:
| Quote: | In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote:
[...]
Who else do you know who plays the bassoon?
I fagotto. Give-a mea cluo.
Now you have to tell me which countries you own.
I don't own any any more. I have got in touch with my feminine side
(though the house is still a mess and I still don't like biscuits).
I'll tell you one I owned for a while without ever having been there
(unless you count a brief stop at an airport), which is even sadder. I'd
been planning a motorcycle trip to Sudan and had done a lot of homework
but I couldn't get it together to get a visa (Ramadan is not the best
time for a late sleeper sans visa) so I came home. A while later I met
someone who had actually been there five or ten years before I hadn't
been there or had even thought of not going there, if you see what I
mean, yet because of all the reading and what have you I had come to
think of it as my country and was intensely irritated that this little
turd had trespassed on my property. How nerdishly, Hornbyishly male is
that?
|
Indeed. I don't think I'm very masculine that way. There is a
little bit of France which I own, but I've got the deeds to prove it.
--
David
=====
replace the first component of address
with the definite article. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stan Brown
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Book recommendations for Christmas and 2005. |
|
|
"Richard Chambers" <richard.chambers7@NOSPAMntlworld.com> wrote in
alt.usage.english:
| Quote: | Even though I am a physicist/electrical engineer myself, I cannot think of a
book on physics in the style that you are asking for. In Biology, I would
recommend the popular books by Richard Dawkins, such as "The Selfish Gene".
This is a very readable popular explanation of the theory of natural
selection. But I suspect that you have probably already read that one -
nearly everybody has.
|
"Climbing Mount Improbable" is a later one of his, and clears up a
few points that the earlier book didn't make clear.
I would also recommend "Darwin's Dangerous Idea" by Daniel Dennett.
Dennett is a philosopher of science, and focuses on the implications
of evolution as much as the biology. (And no, I don't mean anything
as facile and misguided as Social Darwinism".)
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
"And if you're afraid of butter, which many people are nowa-
days, (long pause) you just put in cream." --Julia Child |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
FAQ
Memberlist
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in