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Sara Lorimer
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:19 pm
Post subject: tea |
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Something's puzzling me as I sit here waiting for the kettle to boil.
Imagine I have two coffee mugs. One is small, the other is large. I make
tea in both, each with one tea bag and water sufficient to fill the mug.
Does each mug contain the same amount of caffeine?
I'll probably figure out the answer to this as soon as the tea wakes me
up, and once again I'll be posting a "whoops, that was silly of me"
comment. Ah well, I'm used to it.
--
SML
Dignity, always dignity.
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John Seeliger
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 10:40 pm
Post subject: Re: tea |
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"Sara Lorimer" <que.sara.saraDELETE@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1gmtr4f.ynw3hu1ttrww1N%que.sara.saraDELETE@gmail.com...
| Quote: | Something's puzzling me as I sit here waiting for the kettle to boil.
Imagine I have two coffee mugs. One is small, the other is large. I make
tea in both, each with one tea bag and water sufficient to fill the mug.
Does each mug contain the same amount of caffeine?
I'll probably figure out the answer to this as soon as the tea wakes me
up, and once again I'll be posting a "whoops, that was silly of me"
comment. Ah well, I'm used to it.
|
If there is enough tea in the bag to saturate the water, both will contain
the same concentration of tea, and hence caffeine, but the larger one will
contain more tea total, and this more caffeine total. Both mugs of tea
would then taste equally strong. I expect this to be the correct answer. |
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Don Phillipson
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:13 am
Post subject: Re: tea |
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| Quote: | "Sara Lorimer" <que.sara.saraDELETE@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1gmtr4f.ynw3hu1ttrww1N%que.sara.saraDELETE@gmail.com...
Something's puzzling me as I sit here waiting for the kettle to boil.
Imagine I have two coffee mugs. One is small, the other is large. I make
tea in both, each with one tea bag and water sufficient to fill the mug.
Does each mug contain the same amount of caffeine?
|
"John Seeliger" <jseelige@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:2v49jkF2gouojU1@uni-berlin.de...
| Quote: | If there is enough tea in the bag to saturate the water, both will contain
the same concentration of tea, and hence caffeine, but the larger one will
contain more tea total, and this more caffeine total. Both mugs of tea
would then taste equally strong. I expect this to be the correct answer.
|
The missing data here is how fast caffeine
disperses from the tea leaves (which we do
not consume) into the liquid tea (which we do.)
If all caffeine is dispersed into the water
before the tea is drunk, then a small strong and
a large weak tea contain the same quantity of caffeine
(But the teas would taste different.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
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Reinhold (Rey) Aman
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:11 am
Post subject: Re: tea |
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Sara Lorimer wrote:
| Quote: | Something's puzzling me as I sit here
waiting for the kettle to boil.
|
[...]
Kettles don't boil. Water boils.
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman, Philologist
President, The László Löwenstein Fan Club |
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R J Valentine
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:45 am
Post subject: Re: tea |
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On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 18:11:19 GMT "Reinhold (Rey) Aman" <aman@sonic.net> wrote:
} Sara Lorimer wrote:
}
}> Something's puzzling me as I sit here
}> waiting for the kettle to boil.
}
} [...]
}
} Kettles don't boil. Water boils.
Poughkeepsie or Schenectady or something. You knew that.
But maybe this is the place for a plug for "The Map" celebrating the (and
I quote) "NEW YORK CITY 1904-2004 SUBWAY CENTENNIAL". It's free, but I
don't know if they'll mail it out, though it may say on www.mta.info
(really, that's what it says on the map).
Where's that guy who thought Arnold to jock straps was drift?
To paraphrase Crocodile Dundee, "That's not drift. _This_ is drift."
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:rj@smart.net> |
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Laura F Spira
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:58 am
Post subject: Re: tea |
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Sara Lorimer wrote:
| Quote: | Something's puzzling me as I sit here waiting for the kettle to boil.
Imagine I have two coffee mugs. One is small, the other is large. I make
tea in both, each with one tea bag and water sufficient to fill the mug.
Does each mug contain the same amount of caffeine?
I'll probably figure out the answer to this as soon as the tea wakes me
up, and once again I'll be posting a "whoops, that was silly of me"
comment. Ah well, I'm used to it.
|
Dear me, tea bags in mugs - in coffee mugs, at that.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email) |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:25 am
Post subject: Re: tea |
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R J Valentine wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 18:11:19 GMT "Reinhold (Rey) Aman"
aman@sonic.net> wrote:
} Sara Lorimer wrote:
}
}> Something's puzzling me as I sit here
}> waiting for the kettle to boil.
}
} [...]
}
} Kettles don't boil. Water boils.
Poughkeepsie or Schenectady or something. You knew that.
But maybe this is the place for a plug for "The Map" celebrating
the
(and
I quote) "NEW YORK CITY 1904-2004 SUBWAY CENTENNIAL". It's free,
but
I
don't know if they'll mail it out, though it may say on
www.mta.info
(really, that's what it says on the map).
Where's that guy who thought Arnold to jock straps was drift?
To paraphrase Crocodile Dundee, "That's not drift. _This_ is
drift." |
Hmm. Informative (though slow-loading); but lacks the hyper-confident
solipsism of the Tube map, and the utter "piss-off, stranger"
bafflingness of the old Paris Metro equivalent.
Mike. |
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Mark Brader
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:26 am
Post subject: Re: tea |
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Sara Lorimer:
| Quote: | Imagine I have two coffee mugs. One is small, the other is large.
I make tea in both, each with one tea bag and water sufficient
to fill the mug.
|
John Seeliger:
| Quote: | If there is enough tea in the bag to saturate the water ...
|
This also requires there to be enough time for saturation to occur,
which seems unlikely.
Don Phillipson:
| Quote: | The missing data here is how fast caffeine disperses from the tea
leaves (which we do not consume) into the liquid tea (which we do.) ...
|
Indeed.
| Quote: | If all caffeine is dispersed into the water ...
|
This also seems unlikely.
I would guess that the dissolution rate[1] of the caffeine decreases
as the proportion of caffeine already dissolved in the water increases:
while saturation in a practical sense could occur fairly soon, in
terms of exact measurements it would only be a limit approached
asymptotically[2].
If this is correct, then the larger mug of water will dissolve more
caffeine in the same amount of time, but the tea will be weaker.
[1] It's going into *solution*, but the process is *dissolving* or
*dissolution*. Makes me wonder if "solution rate" might be better,
or at least an alternative. Interesting use of dis-, anyway.
[2] Provided that the cooling of the water doesn't reduce the amount
of caffeine it can hold in solution. But if saturation occurred for
that reason, you'd get caffeine precipitating out of the tea, just as
rain precipitates out of the atmosophere for much the same reason.
I also note that the smaller mug will cool faster if they are both
the same shape, and this might affect the rate of dissolution,
perhaps making my answer wrong.
--
Mark Brader | Nature is often much more interesting than we would
Toronto | like her to be. However when we finally do understand
msb@vex.net | something, we strike our foreheads and cry "Of course!",
| and then marvel at how beautifully simple it was
| all the time. -- Leigh Palmer
My text in this article is in the public domain. |
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Sara Lorimer
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:02 am
Post subject: Re: tea |
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Laura F Spira wrote:
| Quote: | Sara Lorimer wrote:
Something's puzzling me as I sit here waiting for the kettle to boil.
Imagine I have two coffee mugs. One is small, the other is large. I make
tea in both, each with one tea bag and water sufficient to fill the mug.
Does each mug contain the same amount of caffeine?
I'll probably figure out the answer to this as soon as the tea wakes me
up, and once again I'll be posting a "whoops, that was silly of me"
comment. Ah well, I'm used to it.
Dear me, tea bags in mugs - in coffee mugs, at that.
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And I drink my coffee out of a tea cup, to boot.
--
SML
Dignity, always dignity. |
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John O'Flaherty
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:20 am
Post subject: Re: tea |
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Sara Lorimer wrote:
| Quote: | Something's puzzling me as I sit here waiting for the kettle to boil.
Imagine I have two coffee mugs. One is small, the other is large. I make
tea in both, each with one tea bag and water sufficient to fill the mug.
Does each mug contain the same amount of caffeine?
I'll probably figure out the answer to this as soon as the tea wakes me
up, and once again I'll be posting a "whoops, that was silly of me"
comment. Ah well, I'm used to it.
|
I think the larger cup will contain more, because the final solution
will be more dilute, and so draw more drug out of the tea. Unless
caffeine is so soluble that they will contain essentially the same amount.
Thinking it over eleven times, I still think so...
--
john |
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Arcadian Rises
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:02 am
Post subject: Re: tea |
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| Quote: | From: John O'Flaherty quiasmox@yahoo.com
Sara Lorimer wrote:
Something's puzzling me as I sit here waiting for the kettle to boil.
Imagine I have two coffee mugs. One is small, the other is large. I make
tea in both, each with one tea bag and water sufficient to fill the mug.
Does each mug contain the same amount of caffeine?
I'll probably figure out the answer to this as soon as the tea wakes me
up, and once again I'll be posting a "whoops, that was silly of me"
comment. Ah well, I'm used to it.
I think the larger cup will contain more, because the final solution
will be more dilute, and so draw more drug out of the tea. Unless
caffeine is so soluble that they will contain essentially the same amount.
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IIUC, you're saying that the the two cups either contain the same amount of
caffeine, or they don't. Tertium non datur.
| Quote: | Thinking it over eleven times, I still think so...
|
Me too, unless you consider the possibility that the two bags contain herbal
tea caffeine free, in which case there is only one answer: both cups contain
the same amount of caffeine: zero. |
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Laura F Spira
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:15 pm
Post subject: Re: tea |
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Sara Lorimer wrote:
| Quote: | Laura F Spira wrote:
Sara Lorimer wrote:
Something's puzzling me as I sit here waiting for the kettle to boil.
Imagine I have two coffee mugs. One is small, the other is large. I make
tea in both, each with one tea bag and water sufficient to fill the mug.
Does each mug contain the same amount of caffeine?
I'll probably figure out the answer to this as soon as the tea wakes me
up, and once again I'll be posting a "whoops, that was silly of me"
comment. Ah well, I'm used to it.
Dear me, tea bags in mugs - in coffee mugs, at that.
And I drink my coffee out of a tea cup, to boot.
|
I think tea would be a more appropriate beverage to be supped from one's
Wellingtons. Has anyone ever *really* drunk champagne from a lady's slipper?
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email) |
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Sara Lorimer
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:00 pm
Post subject: Re: tea |
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Arcadian Rises wrote:
| Quote: | From: John O'Flaherty quiasmox@yahoo.com
I think the larger cup will contain more, because the final solution
will be more dilute, and so draw more drug out of the tea. Unless
caffeine is so soluble that they will contain essentially the same amount.
|
I think you're right. Thank you for guiding me through this.
| Quote: |
Thinking it over eleven times, I still think so...
Me too, unless you consider the possibility that the two bags contain herbal
tea caffeine free, in which case there is only one answer: both cups contain
the same amount of caffeine: zero.
|
Oooh, good twist, but no. The tea in question -- once again sitting on
my counter waiting for me to pick a mug -- is a green tea, with a touch
of mint and lemongrass.
--
SML
Dignity, always dignity. |
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Paul Wolff
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:54 pm
Post subject: Re: tea |
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In message <20041106210227.15969.00000129@mb-m02.aol.com>, Arcadian
Rises <arcadianrises@aol.com> writes
| Quote: | From: John O'Flaherty quiasmox@yahoo.com
Sara Lorimer wrote:
Something's puzzling me as I sit here waiting for the kettle to boil.
Imagine I have two coffee mugs. One is small, the other is large. I make
tea in both, each with one tea bag and water sufficient to fill the mug.
Does each mug contain the same amount of caffeine?
I'll probably figure out the answer to this as soon as the tea wakes me
up, and once again I'll be posting a "whoops, that was silly of me"
comment. Ah well, I'm used to it.
I think the larger cup will contain more, because the final solution
will be more dilute, and so draw more drug out of the tea. Unless
caffeine is so soluble that they will contain essentially the same amount.
IIUC, you're saying that the the two cups either contain the same amount of
caffeine, or they don't. Tertium non datur.
Thinking it over eleven times, I still think so...
Me too, unless you consider the possibility that the two bags contain herbal
tea caffeine free, in which case there is only one answer: both cups contain
the same amount of caffeine: zero.
Since nothing has been removed from the cups, whatever was in the bags |
remains in the cups. Provided that caffeine is neither created nor
destroyed, each cup still contains one teabag's worth of caffeine.
On the other hand, a gallon of water will extract more of a solute from
a teabag in a given time than will a teaspoonful at the same temperature
and pressure, though the resultant concentration in the teaspoonful will
be greater.
If the experiment is repeated with different volumes, it will be found
that the difference in concentration is less as the difference in volume
is less.
--
Paul
In bocca al Lupo! |
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Jim Ward
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 10:17 pm
Post subject: Re: tea |
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On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 08:15:05 +0000, Laura F Spira
<laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | I think tea would be a more appropriate beverage to be supped from one's
Wellingtons. Has anyone ever *really* drunk champagne from a lady's slipper?
|
In college I drunk beer out of a lady's slipper. The odor did not
improve the taste. |
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