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Jordan Abel
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:48 am
Post subject: Re: Cherry picking (Was: Re: flaunt/flout redux) |
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Peter T. Daniels wrote:
| Quote: | Jordan Abel wrote:
Raymond S. Wise wrote:
[snip MWCD11-says-this/MWCD11-says-that]
Didn't we already determine MWCD11 was invalid [or, at least, too overly
eager to follow bad usage even before such usage is established] back
when someone discovered it legitimized "nucular"?
Dictionaries are not in the "legitimizing" business.
They report facts.
If more people say "nucular" than noo-clee-ar, the dictionary had better
recognize that fact.
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But if it recognizes it prematurely [before such a usage has become
accepted/commonly used/whatever], it's no better than if it stays
perpetually behind the times.
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Steve Hayes
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:18 am
Post subject: Re: flaunt/flout redux |
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On 7 Nov 2004 17:25:33 -0800, hrichler@sympatico.ca (howard richler) wrote:
| Quote: | I googled "flaunt authority" vs "flout authority."
Depressingly, the former is almost as popular as the latter - 19,000 vs 24,000
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Is depressingly analogous to hopefully?
But at least the anti-authoritarians are still ahead.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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Steve Hayes
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:18 am
Post subject: Re: Cherry picking (Was: Re: flaunt/flout redux) |
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On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 09:30:34 -0500, Jim Ward <tomcatpolka@NyOaShPoAoM.com>
wrote:
[quote]On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 02:08:59 -0600, "Raymond S. Wise"
mplsrayNOSPAM@gbronline.com> wrote:
From MWCD11
| Quote: |
Main Entry: *cher·ry-pick* Pronunciation Guide
[...]
Function: verb
Date: 1965
_intransitive verb_ *:* to select the best or most desirable
_transitive verb_ *:* to select as being the best or most desirable; _also_
*:* to select the best or most desirable from <_cherry-picked_ the art
collection
[end quote]
Yabbut, what are you picking the cherries out of? A bowl of cherries?
A bowl of mixed fruit?
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After the explanation, I would say that they are picked from the top of the
cake.
Until it was explained, my image was from the top branches of the tree, by
analogy with those crane thingies called "cherry pickers".
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
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Steve Hayes
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:18 am
Post subject: Re: Cherry picking (Was: Re: flaunt/flout redux) |
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On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 13:07:42 GMT, "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Steve Hayes wrote:
In SAfE "cherry" is part of the male pudendum.
Yeah? Which part?
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The only one that looks like a cherry - the glans.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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Steve Hayes
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:18 am
Post subject: Re: Cherry picking (Was: Re: flaunt/flout redux) |
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On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 02:08:59 -0600, "Raymond S. Wise"
<mplsrayNOSPAM@gbronline.com> wrote:
[quote]"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:418efdf7.259456640@news.saix.net...
On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 12:58:10 -0500, Martin Ambuhl <mambuhl@earthlink.net
wrote:
Donna Richoux wrote:
Peter T. Daniels <grammatim@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Raymond S. Wise wrote:
[snip discussion of "flaunt/flout"]
Subject line changed accordingly.
Your "cherry-picking" charge was thus baseless. I cited the meanings
which
were relevant to the matter under discussion.
But not the usage note that Donna cited.
Not me. Musta been someone else. Looks like Martin.
Musta been someone else. For someone to have charged "cherry-picking"
of my posting would require that someone to have been a bit unhinged.
What is "cherry picking"?
A "cherry picker" to me is one of those lorries with a platform for people
working on overhead electricity supplies.
Perhaps similar things are usied for picking edible cherries.
I believe in AmE "cherry" is part of the female pudendum.
In SAfE "cherry" is part of the male pudendum.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop
uk
From MWCD11
| Quote: |
Main Entry: *cher·ry-pick* Pronunciation Guide
[...]
Function: verb
Date: 1965
_intransitive verb_ *:* to select the best or most desirable
_transitive verb_ *:* to select as being the best or most desirable; _also_
*:* to select the best or most desirable from <_cherry-picked_ the art
collection
[end quote]
As Peter T. Daniels used the term in the present discussion, he means that I
chose to quote information which agreed with what I was arguing and chose
not to quote information which disagreed with what I was arguing.
|
<irrelevant stuff about flaunt and flout snipped>
Thanks.
I think I understand now.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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Steve Hayes
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:18 am
Post subject: Re: Cherry picking (Was: Re: flaunt/flout redux) |
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On 8 Nov 2004 13:09:45 GMT, CyberCypher <cybercypher@19-16-25-13-01-03.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Peter T. Daniels wrote on 08 Nov 2004:
Steve Hayes wrote:
In SAfE "cherry" is part of the male pudendum.
Yeah? Which part?
I'd bet that it refers to that cute little bald-headed mouse I used
hear about in dirty junior high school jokes. IOW, the glans penis.
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Right on.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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Steve Hayes
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:18 am
Post subject: Re: Cherry picking (Was: Re: flaunt/flout redux) |
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On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:43:36 -0800, Jacques Guy <jguy@alphalink.com.au> wrote:
| Quote: | Steve Hayes wrote:
I believe in AmE "cherry" is part of the female pudendum.
It means virginity, that's all. In a pinch, you could
imagine that cherry = hymen, but show me a cherry
that looks like a hymen or a hymen that looks like
a cherry.
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| Quote: |
I should think that, on these bases, "cherry" could
be barely construed as anything but "clitoris".
But clitoris = virginity? It's a wild semantic
jump.
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In the contexts in which I've seen it used, it seemed to be hymen, but I agree
that's illogical, so it's not used here.
| Quote: |
In SAfE "cherry" is part of the male pudendum.
Which part? Tell us!
|
Already answered twice... but guess if you haven't already seen the answers.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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don groves
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:33 am
Post subject: Re: Cherry picking (Was: Re: flaunt/flout redux) |
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In article <PvSdnWx0IOFBtBLcRVn-uA@gbronline.com>, Raymond S.
Wise at mplsrayNOSPAM@gbronline.com poured forth...
[quote]"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:418efdf7.259456640@news.saix.net...
On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 12:58:10 -0500, Martin Ambuhl <mambuhl@earthlink.net
wrote:
Donna Richoux wrote:
Peter T. Daniels <grammatim@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Raymond S. Wise wrote:
[snip discussion of "flaunt/flout"]
Subject line changed accordingly.
Your "cherry-picking" charge was thus baseless. I cited the meanings
which
were relevant to the matter under discussion.
But not the usage note that Donna cited.
Not me. Musta been someone else. Looks like Martin.
Musta been someone else. For someone to have charged "cherry-picking"
of my posting would require that someone to have been a bit unhinged.
What is "cherry picking"?
A "cherry picker" to me is one of those lorries with a platform for people
working on overhead electricity supplies.
Perhaps similar things are usied for picking edible cherries.
I believe in AmE "cherry" is part of the female pudendum.
In SAfE "cherry" is part of the male pudendum.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop
uk
From MWCD11
| Quote: |
Main Entry: *cher·ry-pick* Pronunciation Guide
[...]
Function: verb
Date: 1965
_intransitive verb_ *:* to select the best or most desirable
_transitive verb_ *:* to select as being the best or most desirable; _also_
*:* to select the best or most desirable from <_cherry-picked_ the art
collection
[end quote]
|
"Cherry picker" is also the name given to buckets attached to
articulated arms used to hoist firemen for upper story rescues.
Also used to hoist electrical and telephone repair persons.
--
dg (domain=ccwebster) |
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don groves
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:37 am
Post subject: Re: Cherry picking (Was: Re: flaunt/flout redux) |
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In article <jktuo05q3ve2idfbouo5nv0c8b0ab2jsgd@4ax.com>, Spehro
Pefhany at speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat poured forth...
| Quote: | On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:43:36 -0800, the renowned Jacques Guy
jguy@alphalink.com.au> wrote:
Steve Hayes wrote:
I believe in AmE "cherry" is part of the female pudendum.
It means virginity, that's all. In a pinch, you could
imagine that cherry = hymen, but show me a cherry
that looks like a hymen or a hymen that looks like
a cherry. Such parts tend to be named after what
they look like, like, for instance "apricot" (in
French), "peach" in Chinese. French and Japanese,
rather independently I believe, also concur there:
"moule" and "hamaguri" (and Australian English:
"bearded clam").
I should think that, on these bases, "cherry" could
be barely construed as anything but "clitoris".
But clitoris = virginity? It's a wild semantic
jump.
Most cherries are red like blood, no?
|
At a company Christmas party eons ago, I spotted a withered
Maraschino cherry stuck to the wall by a toothpick. Of course, I
brought it to the attention of the group and one gal said she had
put it there at last year's party and that she would bet she was
only gal in the room who knew where hers was.
--
dg (domain=ccwebster) |
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Ross Howard
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:35 am
Post subject: Re: Cherry picking (Was: Re: flaunt/flout redux) |
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On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 14:01:56 GMT, "Peter T. Daniels"
<grammatim@worldnet.att.net> wrought:
| Quote: | Ross Howard wrote:
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 13:07:15 GMT, "Peter T. Daniels"
grammatim@worldnet.att.net> wrought:
Reinhold (Rey) Aman wrote:
Jacques Guy kirjoitti:
Steve Hayes wrote:
I believe in AmE "cherry" is part of the female pudendum.
It means virginity, that's all.
[...]
And, to be specific, "cherry" refers to a female's vaginal virginity as
well as to a male's anal virginity (in gay lingo).
What makes it "gay lingo"?
Are you unaware that a female also possesses and can give up anal
virginity?
I'm sure he's quite aware of it, but as with other points that are
utterly irrelevant, he wisely chose not to bore us with it. Are you
unaware that "her cherry" always refers to a girl's vulval integrity?
"Losing his/her cherry" simply means being penetrated for the first
time, and is understood to refer to the most commonly penetrated
orifice for each sex-er-I-mean-gender.
[1. Hi, Rey, since both vagina and hymen are tradionally involved in
cherry-losing activities.]
No, since I've seen lots and lots of porn boxes and spam ads urging me
to watch "barely legal" "backdoor virgins" lose their "anal cherry."
|
Exactly -- since the default cherry for females is the front bottom,
if the breaching of the back bottom is what's under discussion, a
modifier such as "anal" or "backdoor" is required.
--
Ross Howard |
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Peter T. Daniels
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:36 am
Post subject: Re: Cherry picking (Was: Re: flaunt/flout redux) |
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Jordan Abel wrote:
| Quote: |
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
No, since I've seen lots and lots of porn boxes and spam ads urging me
to watch "barely legal" "backdoor virgins" lose their "anal cherry."
That it must be specified acts as evidence _against_ it being the default
case, not _for_.
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No one suggested it was the default case. The self-appointed expert
claimed:
| Quote: | And, to be specific, "cherry" refers to a female's vaginal virginity as
well as to a male's anal virginity (in gay lingo).
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I.e., he excluded female anal virginity, and he was simply wrong.
--
Peter T. Daniels grammatim@att.net |
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Peter T. Daniels
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:38 am
Post subject: Re: Cherry picking (Was: Re: flaunt/flout redux) |
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Jordan Abel wrote:
| Quote: |
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
Jordan Abel wrote:
Raymond S. Wise wrote:
[snip MWCD11-says-this/MWCD11-says-that]
Didn't we already determine MWCD11 was invalid [or, at least, too overly
eager to follow bad usage even before such usage is established] back
when someone discovered it legitimized "nucular"?
Dictionaries are not in the "legitimizing" business.
They report facts.
If more people say "nucular" than noo-clee-ar, the dictionary had better
recognize that fact.
But if it recognizes it prematurely [before such a usage has become
accepted/commonly used/whatever], it's no better than if it stays
perpetually behind the times.
|
If a dictionary waited for a usage to become [whatever], there would be
little point in decennial new editions. Or, they'd be perpetually about
half a century behind the speech community.
--
Peter T. Daniels grammatim@att.net |
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Peter T. Daniels
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:39 am
Post subject: Re: Cherry picking (Was: Re: flaunt/flout redux) |
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Oops, on this one I didn't notice you'd cut me out of your conversation.
Your loss.
--
Peter T. Daniels grammatim@att.net |
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Peter T. Daniels
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:40 am
Post subject: Re: Cherry picking (Was: Re: flaunt/flout redux) |
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Neeraj Mathur wrote:
| Quote: |
"Jacques Guy" <jguy@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message
news:419020C8.5A01@alphalink.com.au...
It means virginity, that's all. In a pinch, you could
imagine that cherry = hymen, but show me a cherry
that looks like a hymen or a hymen that looks like
a cherry.
I think it's best explained in a slightly different way. I would guess (just
a guess, no data) that the original usage was something like that still in
the phrase 'pop the cherry': perform an action that tears the hymen and then
compare the blood that streams to the juice of a cherry that has been
squeezed until it bursts. From this, the metaphor was extended backward to
equate hymen and cherry, or virginity and cherry. The shape has nothing to
do with it.
Does that sound plausible?
|
What would a non-metaphorical popping of a cherry be? We pop bubbles,
and balloons, and champagne corks -- but cherries?
--
Peter T. Daniels grammatim@att.net |
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Peter T. Daniels
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:41 am
Post subject: Re: flaunt/flout redux |
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Steve Hayes wrote:
| Quote: |
On 7 Nov 2004 17:25:33 -0800, hrichler@sympatico.ca (howard richler) wrote:
I googled "flaunt authority" vs "flout authority."
Depressingly, the former is almost as popular as the latter - 19,000 vs 24,000
Is depressingly analogous to hopefully?
|
Of course. They're both perfectly normal sentence adverbs.
--
Peter T. Daniels grammatim@att.net |
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