| Author |
Message |
Jackie Mulheron
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:06 am
Post subject: Re: Branch of English or a Separate Language? |
|
|
"The Green Troll" <aloe@rev.net> wrote in message
news:5f6363d3.0409300024.63d51f82@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | "allan connochie" <allan@EASYNET.CO.UK> wrote in message
news:<4158c933@news.greennet.net>...
For various
reasons the upper echelons of society became heavily anglicised and
stopped
speaking Scots.
Why didn't Scots become a prestige tongue in 1603, as had Norman French in
1066? |
Because Jamie the Saxt didn't care that much for Scotland.
| Quote: | Scots
however is now considered an official minority language by the Scottish
Parliament, the British Parliament and the European Union. Other
minority
languages officially recognised from when Britain signed the charter
were
Welsh, Scottish Gaelic, Irish Gealic, and Ulster Scots. Last year
Cornish
joined the list.
What would it take to get similar status for Norn?
|
Organisation and lobbying.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Yiannis
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Branch of English or a Separate Language? |
|
|
aloe@rev.net (The Green Troll) wrote in message news:<5f6363d3.0409280419.4b7e786c@posting.google.com>...
| Quote: | Robert Bannister <robban@it.net.au> wrote in message news:<2quo5pF13ti8lU1@uni-berlin.de>...
Speaking Macedonian was banned for a while in Greece, and a few Serbs
and Croatians still like to claim that it is either the same as their
language or that it is Bulgarian.
|
Modern Slavic Macedonian is a dialect of Bulgarian,
(1) with which it is mutually comprehensible.
(2) Slavic Macedonians can read Bulgarian newspapers and do
(3) as well as watch and comprehend Bulgarian television
(4) and vice versa of course. So maybe Bulgarian is a dialect of
Slavic Macedonian.
Funnily enough Bulgarians don't claim that they are descendants of
Alexander, since they are not self hating Slavs, but in fact, and
rightly so, proud of their heritage.
| Quote: | Did Alexander the Great speak Macedonian, or only Greek?
|
Alexander spoke a dialect of Greek. There was not at the time a common
way of speaking Greek as each city was separated by large distance and
days of travel from the others. Hence he spoke the Macedonian dialect
of Greek, the Athenians spoke the Attic dialect, etc. In the end the
Attic dialect became the standard and lead to the emergence of
Hellenistic era Koine (common) language. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yiannis
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 2:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Branch of English or a Separate Language? |
|
|
aloe@rev.net (The Green Troll) wrote in message news:<5f6363d3.0409280419.4b7e786c@posting.google.com>...
| Quote: | Robert Bannister <robban@it.net.au> wrote in message news:<2quo5pF13ti8lU1@uni-berlin.de>...
Speaking Macedonian was banned for a while in Greece, and a few Serbs
and Croatians still like to claim that it is either the same as their
language or that it is Bulgarian.
Did Alexander the Great speak Macedonian, or only Greek?
|
A good site with detailed information on Macedonian language would be
http://www.panmacedonian.info/FALLACIESANDFACTS.htm
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Green Troll
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:56 am
Post subject: Re: Branch of English or a Separate Language? |
|
|
yiannis804@hotmail.com (Yiannis) wrote in message news:<bc0c6ef8.0410050020.3541499a@posting.google.com>...
Ergo, people of European ancestry who speak a European language
(English, Spanish, Portuguese, French, Russian) or a descendent of a
European language (Sanskrit, Afrikaans) are not really Americans,
Indians, Australians, Siberians, New Zealanders, or South Africans.
People of Arab ancestry who speak Arabic are not really North
Africans.
-- Spud <http://www.rev.net/~aloe/couchpotato> |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yiannis
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Branch of English or a Separate Language? |
|
|
| Quote: | Ergo, people of European ancestry who speak a European language
(English, Spanish, Portuguese, French, Russian) or a descendent of a
European language (Sanskrit, Afrikaans) are not really Americans,
Indians, Australians, Siberians, New Zealanders, or South Africans.
People of Arab ancestry who speak Arabic are not really North
Africans.
|
That page mentions several points. Which particular one are you refering to? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Robert Bannister
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:09 am
Post subject: Re: Branch of English or a Separate Language? |
|
|
Yiannis wrote:
| Quote: | Ergo, people of European ancestry who speak a European language
(English, Spanish, Portuguese, French, Russian) or a descendent of a
European language (Sanskrit, Afrikaans) are not really Americans,
Indians, Australians, Siberians, New Zealanders, or South Africans.
People of Arab ancestry who speak Arabic are not really North
Africans.
That page mentions several points. Which particular one are you refering to?
|
Presumably he means the bit that claims only Greek Macedonians have a
right to the name 'Macedonian'. True, I have a few acquaintances who
still believe in the myth that they (the Slav Macedonians) have
connections with Philip and Alexander - I try to put them right. But
when it comes to the names 'Macedonia' and 'Macedonian', it seems to me
that they have as much right to the name as anyone else who lived in
that area for centuries. Of course, some Albanians lay claim to the
entire region of Pannonia and believe they are Illyrians. One part of
England is called 'Holland' - I have never heard a single Dutch person
complain about that.
--
Rob Bannister |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yog-Sothoth
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:49 am
Post subject: Re: Branch of English or a Separate Language? |
|
|
Goat like "Robert Bannister" <robban@it.net.au> while grazing in
<2sjflpF1la8edU1@uni-berlin.de>, made the following shapes:
| Quote: | Yiannis wrote:
Ergo, people of European ancestry who speak a European language
(English, Spanish, Portuguese, French, Russian) or a descendent of a
European language (Sanskrit, Afrikaans) are not really Americans,
Indians, Australians, Siberians, New Zealanders, or South Africans.
People of Arab ancestry who speak Arabic are not really North
Africans.
That page mentions several points. Which particular one are you refering to?
Presumably he means the bit that claims only Greek Macedonians have a
right to the name 'Macedonian'. True, I have a few acquaintances who
still believe in the myth that they (the Slav Macedonians) have
connections with Philip and Alexander - I try to put them right. But
when it comes to the names 'Macedonia' and 'Macedonian', it seems to me
that they have as much right to the name as anyone else who lived in
that area for centuries. Of course, some Albanians lay claim to the
entire region of Pannonia and believe they are Illyrians. One part of
England is called 'Holland' - I have never heard a single Dutch person
complain about that.
|
Because the UK never included in its constitution a clause for
"reuniting" the English Holland with the Dutch. It is well known that
the Slavs believe that the ancient Macedonian region (which is mostly
in Greece), belongs to them. This does create an issue with naming,
since it creates an illusion that there is one Macedonia and it is
divided.
Cheers |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yiannis
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 4:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Branch of English or a Separate Language? |
|
|
| Quote: | Presumably he means the bit that claims only Greek Macedonians have a
right to the name 'Macedonian'.
|
I also disagree with that.
| Quote: | when it comes to the names 'Macedonia' and 'Macedonian', it seems to me
that they have as much right to the name as anyone else who lived in
that area for centuries.
|
I completely agree with you on that. The Slavic Macedonians have
lived in that are for more than 14 hundread years. They certainly have
the right to the lands they inhabit and to call themselves as Slavic
Macedonians.
The Greeks' beef with this is that many (most infact) among them
claim that right is retroactive, ie includes the right to appropriate
the legacy and history of Macedonian Greeks in Alexander's time.
The names the Greek govt. proposed during the initial negotiantiosn
included the term Macedonia, to which they certainly have rights.
However, naming the country as simply Macedonia, would be as
nonsensical as calling a country Balkans, or Europe. Macedonia is a
geographic term. An area divided between four countries.This area also
happens to bear the name of the ancient Greek tribe of the
Macedonians.
| Quote: | Of course, some Albanians lay claim to the
entire region of Pannonia and believe they are Illyrians. One part of
England is called 'Holland' - I have never heard a single Dutch person
complain about that.
|
That would be because the English are rightfully proud of their own
heritage and don't wish to appropriate one that has had little or no
impact on their culture and evolution through history. The place name
alone is not the preoblem.
If the Slavic Macedonians just said, we want to call ourselves
Macedonians because this is the are we live in, and didn't press
claims on the Macedonian history, there would not be a problem.
Instead, whichever Slavic Macedonian site, publication, etc you read
is rife with mentions of the proud past of the Macedonians, how
Macedonians weren't Greek, how modern Greeks are not real Greeks, how
Greek language is not Greek etc. Such racist drivel is the hallmark of
Greek-haters and the Slavic Macedonians have lapped it up with gusto.
Notice that they rarely present arguments that would substantiate a
connection between ancient and modern Macedonians. The reason ofcourse
is they can't. Modern Slavic Macedonian culture is just that, Slavic.
Hence, while important and beautifull in its own right, it bears no
resemblence to the Hellenistic culture Alexander spread. Instead they
mainly focus on attacking and dehumanizing Greeks. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Robert Bannister
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:10 am
Post subject: Re: Branch of English or a Separate Language? |
|
|
Yiannis wrote:
| Quote: | Such racist drivel is the hallmark of
Greek-haters and the Slavic Macedonians have lapped it up with gusto.
|
There are mad Slav Macedonians and mad Greeks (June, Spirit of Hatred).
Best to take no notice of them. They are not the majority.
--
Rob Bannister |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raymond o'hara
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Branch of English or a Separate Language? |
|
|
"Yiannis" > However, naming the country as simply Macedonia, would be as
| Quote: | nonsensical as calling a country Balkans, or Europe. Macedonia is a
geographic term. An area divided between four countries.This area also
happens to bear the name of the ancient Greek tribe of the
Macedonians.
|
try http://historyofmacedonia.org/ for a different veiw.
Al the Great wasn't a Greek and Macedonians weren't Greeks. Macedon was
culturally swamped by Greece and eventually conquered it but they were never
seen as anything other than barbarians, much as the Chinese veiwed their
Mongol masters.
Macedonians can call their country any name they want. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jason K. Lambrou
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:48 am
Post subject: Re: Branch of English or a Separate Language? |
|
|
raymond o'hara wrote:
| Quote: | "Yiannis" > However, naming the country as simply Macedonia, would be as
nonsensical as calling a country Balkans, or Europe. Macedonia is a
geographic term. An area divided between four countries.This area also
happens to bear the name of the ancient Greek tribe of the
Macedonians.
try http://historyofmacedonia.org/ for a different veiw.
Al the Great wasn't a Greek and Macedonians weren't Greeks. Macedon was
culturally swamped by Greece and eventually conquered it but they were never
seen as anything other than barbarians, much as the Chinese veiwed their
Mongol masters.
Macedonians can call their country any name they want.
With name like O'Hara you show lots of concern about macedonia.Stop |
posting this crap mako/wacko. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yiannis
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Branch of English or a Separate Language? |
|
|
"raymond o'hara" <reoh@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<v%ybd.241005$MQ5.222033@attbi_s52>...
My fav bit of the site is where the:
Slavic Emperor of Byzantium Basileus II the "Macedonoktonus"
(hmphmphmph) of the Macedonian dynasty....
http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/RomanMacedonia/macedonianemperors.html
.... destroys the "Macedonian" Empire of the "Macedonian" Czar Samuel!!
http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/RomanMacedonia/Cometopuli.htm
Are these guys CONFUSED or what?
Sad, sad Self-Hating Slavs.
BTW What is it with you guys going for them Western names? Are you
ashamed of your proud Slavic heritage? Why? It includes such men as
Alexander the Great and Czar Samuel!!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in