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Dave Richards
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:26 am
Post subject: Tricky adverb question |
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Well, it is for me, anyway:
It is not necessarily speed or grammatical perfection or breadth of
vocabulary.
How to explain the need to use the adverb "necessarily" in the above
sentence? Is it just a sentence adverb like "possibly" or "certainly"?
Best wishes
Dave
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John Dean
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:26 am
Post subject: Re: Tricky adverb question |
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Dave Richards wrote:
| Quote: | Well, it is for me, anyway:
It is not necessarily speed or grammatical perfection or breadth of
vocabulary.
How to explain the need to use the adverb "necessarily" in the above
sentence? Is it just a sentence adverb like "possibly" or "certainly"?
|
The need arises because the writer requires it to express a view.
"It is not speed or grammatical perfection or breadth of vocabulary." is
perfectly grammatical and rules out the three skills mentioned.
"It is speed or grammatical perfection or breadth of vocabulary."
restricts the reasons to one of three.
"It is not necessarily speed or grammatical perfection or breadth of
vocabulary." suggests that they may be other reasons for <whatever> but
implies that it makes sense to look at one or more of the reasons
quoted.
So the "need to use the adverb" arises from the fact the adverb makes
the sentence mean something different.
--
John Dean
Oxford |
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Dave Richards
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:00 am
Post subject: Re: Tricky adverb question |
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On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 17:50:10 +0100
"John Dean" <john-dean@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Dave Richards wrote:
Well, it is for me, anyway:
It is not necessarily speed or grammatical perfection or breadth of
vocabulary.
How to explain the need to use the adverb "necessarily" in the above
sentence? Is it just a sentence adverb like "possibly" or
"certainly"?
The need arises because the writer requires it to express a view.
"It is not speed or grammatical perfection or breadth of vocabulary."
is perfectly grammatical and rules out the three skills mentioned.
"It is speed or grammatical perfection or breadth of vocabulary."
restricts the reasons to one of three.
"It is not necessarily speed or grammatical perfection or breadth of
vocabulary." suggests that they may be other reasons for <whatever
but implies that it makes sense to look at one or more of the reasons
quoted.
So the "need to use the adverb" arises from the fact the adverb makes
the sentence mean something different.
--
John Dean
Oxford
|
Sorry, I didn't express my question clearly enough. The meaning is
perfectly clear; I am questioning the grammatical reason for using an
adverbial form, "necessarily", here not an adjective. I need to explain
the construction to a foreign learner of English.
Dave
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:40 am
Post subject: Re: Tricky adverb question |
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Dave Richards wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | Sorry, I didn't express my question clearly enough. The meaning is
perfectly clear; I am questioning the grammatical reason for using
an
adverbial form, "necessarily", here not an adjective. I need to
explain the construction to a foreign learner of English.
|
Ah, right. Choose between adverb modifying the verb "is", or adverb
modifying the adverb "not". I'd go for "modifying 'is'". Compare "is
not always" "is not infrequently", etc. A possible sentence would be
"It is necessarily...", which is why I say it's the verb which is
modified here. (I could make a much more complex case about the
sentence, but it would be pointless.)
Adjectives, of course, can't modify verbs or adverbs: for that you
need an adverb.
Mike. |
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Ross Howard
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 1:59 am
Post subject: Re: Tricky adverb question |
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On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:40:49 -0000, "Mike Lyle"
<mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrought:
| Quote: | Adjectives, of course, can't modify verbs or adverbs: for that you
need an adverb.
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You're dead right.
--
Ross Howard |
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Don Phillipson
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:01 am
Post subject: Re: Tricky adverb question |
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"Dave Richards" <wack@arcor.de> wrote in message
news:20041103182617.7acb074c@thor.mnd.com...
| Quote: | Well, it is for me, anyway:
It is not necessarily speed or grammatical perfection or breadth of
vocabulary.
How to explain the need to use the adverb "necessarily" in the above
sentence? Is it just a sentence adverb like "possibly" or "certainly"?
. . . I am questioning the grammatical reason for using an
adverbial form, "necessarily", here not an adjective. I need to explain
the construction to a foreign learner of English.
|
We have to start by considering the sentence as
a whole: and it is a negative existential proposition.
Generally there is seldom any grammatical need
for existential propsitions (e.g. It is speed that kills
rather than Speed kills); and even less for negative
ones (It is not speed that kills, cf. speed does not
kill -- or perhaps not necessarily kill.)
The original sentence omits the positive statement
to which it leads. If it was that non-XYZ wins contracts,
we could put it in a non-existential form:
"speed, grammar or vocabulary do not necessarily
XYZ (persuade the listener/elicit votes, etc.)"
which incidentally makes the commonest use of
the adverb necessarily.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada) |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:26 am
Post subject: Re: Tricky adverb question |
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Ross Howard wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:40:49 -0000, "Mike Lyle"
mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrought:
Adjectives, of course, can't modify verbs or adverbs: for that you
need an adverb.
You're dead right.
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So are you: this "dead" is an adverb.
Mike. |
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Ross Howard
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:35 am
Post subject: Re: Tricky adverb question |
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On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 19:26:45 -0000, "Mike Lyle"
<mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrought:
| Quote: | Ross Howard wrote:
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:40:49 -0000, "Mike Lyle"
mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrought:
Adjectives, of course, can't modify verbs or adverbs: for that you
need an adverb.
You're dead right.
So are you: this "dead" is an adverb.
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You're deadly right again.
--
Ross Howard |
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Donna Richoux
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:43 am
Post subject: Re: Tricky adverb question |
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Dave Richards <wack@arcor.de> wrote:
| Quote: | Well, it is for me, anyway:
It is not necessarily speed or grammatical perfection or breadth of
vocabulary.
How to explain the need to use the adverb "necessarily" in the above
sentence? Is it just a sentence adverb like "possibly" or "certainly"?
|
I think you are asking specifically about the difference between:
It is not A, B, or C. (meaning) It is not A, it is not B, it is not C.
It is not necessarily A, B, or C. (meaning) It might be A, B, or C,
but it might not be any of those things. It is not necessary that it be
one of those things.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux |
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Mark Brader
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:41 am
Post subject: Re: Tricky adverb question |
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Dave Richards writes:
| Quote: | It is not necessarily speed or grammatical perfection or breadth of
vocabulary.
How to explain the need to use the adverb "necessarily" in the above
sentence? Is it just a sentence adverb like "possibly" or "certainly"?
|
Yes.
--
Mark Brader | "Simple things should be simple." -- Alan Kay, on UIs
msb@vex.net | "Too many ... try to make complex things simple ...
Toronto | and succeed ... only in making simple things complex."
| -- Jeff Prothero |
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Dave Richards
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Tricky adverb question |
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On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:40:49 -0000
"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Dave Richards wrote:
[...]
Sorry, I didn't express my question clearly enough. The meaning is
perfectly clear; I am questioning the grammatical reason for using
an
adverbial form, "necessarily", here not an adjective. I need to
explain the construction to a foreign learner of English.
Ah, right. Choose between adverb modifying the verb "is", or adverb
modifying the adverb "not". I'd go for "modifying 'is'". Compare "is
not always" "is not infrequently", etc. A possible sentence would be
"It is necessarily...", which is why I say it's the verb which is
modified here. (I could make a much more complex case about the
sentence, but it would be pointless.)
Adjectives, of course, can't modify verbs or adverbs: for that you
need an adverb.
Mike.
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Thanks. I guess I'd got kind of hung up on the fact that verbs like "to
be" take an adjective.
--
Dave R. |
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