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William R Ward
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:19 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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"Laura F. Spira" <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes:
| Quote: | William R Ward wrote:
Kneeling is not a very common activity nowadays,
What evidence do you have for this bizarre assertion?
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Just that many churches who used to have their members kneel at
various points in the service no longer do.
--
William R Ward bill@wards.net http://bill.wards.net
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William R Ward
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:21 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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Tony Cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> writes:
| Quote: | On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:30:04 -0800, "Skitt" <skitt99@comcast.net
wrote:
Linz wrote:
"William R Ward" wrote:
Kneeling is not a very common activity nowadays, so the fact that it
has an irregular past tense just doesn't come up often. That's
probably why it's dying.
Kneeling is as common as it's always been.
Right, but for me it'd be extremely uncommon. As it always has been.
How do you at things that are low? Kneeling isn't just a position
assumed in church. I kneel down to look for my shoes under the bed
more often than I kneel in church.
I've been painting woodwork this past week, and spent quite a bit of
time on one or both knees.
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Yeah, but you don't talk about kneeling in those contexts very often.
I'd claim that "on one's knees" has replaced "to kneel" in many non-
Church contexts, and that fewer churches require people to kneel.
--
William R Ward bill@wards.net http://bill.wards.net
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:54 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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On 25 Jan 2005 12:21:00 -0800, William R Ward <bill@wards.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Tony Cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> writes:
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:30:04 -0800, "Skitt" <skitt99@comcast.net
wrote:
Linz wrote:
"William R Ward" wrote:
Kneeling is not a very common activity nowadays, so the fact that it
has an irregular past tense just doesn't come up often. That's
probably why it's dying.
Kneeling is as common as it's always been.
Right, but for me it'd be extremely uncommon. As it always has been.
How do you at things that are low? Kneeling isn't just a position
assumed in church. I kneel down to look for my shoes under the bed
more often than I kneel in church.
I've been painting woodwork this past week, and spent quite a bit of
time on one or both knees.
Yeah, but you don't talk about kneeling in those contexts very often.
I'd claim that "on one's knees" has replaced "to kneel" in many non-
Church contexts, and that fewer churches require people to kneel.
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I have absolutely no idea what you mean. I talk about kneeling when
it's necessary to explain the position I was in when I did what I did.
If there's no need to explain the position, I don't talk about it.
I have no idea what churches are requiring. I don't go to mass that
often any more, but it seems we bob and duck at the same places we
always have. Not being a candidate for President of the United
States, I don't go to different churches every week and observe
changes in the rituals. Do you? How have you arrived at the
conclusion that fewer churches require people to kneel?
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Laura F Spira
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:26 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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William R Ward wrote:
| Quote: | "Laura F. Spira" <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes:
William R Ward wrote:
Kneeling is not a very common activity nowadays,
What evidence do you have for this bizarre assertion?
Just that many churches who used to have their members kneel at
various points in the service no longer do.
|
IANAC but I understand that going to church, whether or not kneeling is
involved, is far less common in the UK than the US, which would pretty
much invalidate that argument here. But I'm prepared to bet that parents
of young children, pet owners, home dressmakers. carpet fitters,
plumbers and gardeners all do a fair bit of kneeling, irrespective of
their religious affiliation, and I doubt whether there's any evidence to
show that the amount has changed.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email) |
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Donna Richoux
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:42 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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Alan Jones <atj@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | I'm not sure when the same pronunciation is used for both spellings. Do
people who write "kneeled" say "nelt" or "neeld"?
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I don't see that that was answered in the ensuing discussion: "neeld".
Google shows the usages are pretty close:
knelt 361,000
kneeled 183,000 Ratio 2:l
And, as I'd expect in that case, M-W shows them both:
Main Entry: kneel
Inflected Form(s): knelt \nelt \; or kneeled;
--
Best -- Donna Richoux |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:28 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:26:50 +0000, Laura F Spira
<laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | William R Ward wrote:
"Laura F. Spira" <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes:
William R Ward wrote:
Kneeling is not a very common activity nowadays,
What evidence do you have for this bizarre assertion?
Just that many churches who used to have their members kneel at
various points in the service no longer do.
IANAC but I understand that going to church, whether or not kneeling is
involved, is far less common in the UK than the US, which would pretty
much invalidate that argument here. But I'm prepared to bet that parents
of young children, pet owners, home dressmakers. carpet fitters,
plumbers and gardeners all do a fair bit of kneeling, irrespective of
their religious affiliation, and I doubt whether there's any evidence to
show that the amount has changed.
|
Add grandparents. Just a bit ago I kneeled to put young Nicolai's
shoes on. Putting shoes on a 16-month-old is like putting a pumpkin
in your watchpocket. A squirming pumpkin.
He would have squirmed more, but the creaking and popping from my
knees caught his attention. |
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R J Valentine
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:13 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 20:54:28 GMT Tony Cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
....
} I have no idea what churches are requiring. I don't go to mass that
} often any more, but it seems we bob and duck at the same places we
} always have. Not being a candidate for President of the United
} States, I don't go to different churches every week and observe
} changes in the rituals. Do you? How have you arrived at the
} conclusion that fewer churches require people to kneel?
Well, there's not so much kneeling at the altar rail anymore.
Shortly after we got our latest archbishop, he came to say mass at our
church. At the point when apparently people in his experience generally
knelt down, he like to have a conniption fit that we kept standing. He
told people to kneel down, and there was a little shuffling around until
our pastor whispered into his ear that we didn't have kneelers in out
church. Apparently we're the only ones in the archdiocese that doesn't
have them.
Ten or twenty years ago there was a big to-do about our not having a
crucifix in the church, either. Eventually one archbishop won the point
and we got one on a processional cross. Then eventually we got a pastor
that sympathized with the archbishops and now we're stuck with a near
life-sized one.
Genuflecting is a whole nother subject. Back when everything was
practically on top of each other, there wasn't that much apparent
confusion about what anyone was genuflecting to. Now things are spread
around a little, and they've thrown in bowing into the mix, but you still
see the occasional person genuflect _after_ receiving communion (which is
in a category of dipping the flag when passing in review).
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:rj@smart.net> |
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Jim Ward
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 6:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 04:32:36 -0000, R J Valentine <rj@smart.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | Genuflecting is a whole nother subject. Back when everything was
practically on top of each other, there wasn't that much apparent
confusion about what anyone was genuflecting to. Now things are spread
around a little, and they've thrown in bowing into the mix, but you still
see the occasional person genuflect _after_ receiving communion (which is
in a category of dipping the flag when passing in review).
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What do you dip the flag in? |
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:08 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 10:56:51 +0000, "Laura F. Spira"
<laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | William R Ward wrote:
"Alan Jones" <atj@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:35hielF4m9ufpU3@individual.net...
Pat Durkin wrote:
[...]
I know that I find it mildly irritating when I read in a novel "He
lighted her cigarette". Most people I know say "lit", but I rarely
see that in print in US usage. I don't think it is as close to the
door as "knelt", however.
I've never noticed "lighted" in a novel; I would expect to see "lit."
Google shows "about 20,900,000" for "lit" and only "about 3,910,000"
for "lighted."
You reckon "knelt" is on the way out? Interesting, as I'd class
"kneeled" as plain wrong in modern English (maybe earlier, too: I
don't know): the kind of thing a learner might say.
Kneeling is not a very common activity nowadays,
What evidence do you have for this bizarre assertion?
|
Recent measurements, using a large sample of people, of the brain wave
indicating sexual arousal, show it reacts as strongly in women as it
does in men. Sexual matters are of identically equal importance to
each group, the scientists have concluded.
--
Charles Riggs |
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:08 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:05:21 -0000, "Linz" <spam@lindsayendell.co.uk>
wrote:
| Quote: |
"William R Ward" <bill@wards.net> wrote in message
news:m2d5vtlr1r.fsf@komodo.home.wards.net...
"Alan Jones" <atj@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:35hielF4m9ufpU3@individual.net...
You reckon "knelt" is on the way out? Interesting, as I'd class
"kneeled" as plain wrong in modern English (maybe earlier, too: I
don't know): the kind of thing a learner might say.
Kneeling is not a very common activity nowadays, so the fact that it
has an irregular past tense just doesn't come up often. That's
probably why it's dying.
Kneeling is as common as it's always been.
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In what sense of 'common'? I hope you're not saying you don't approve.
--
Charles Riggs |
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R J Valentine
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:15 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 18:33:22 -0800 Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
} Jim Ward <tomcatpolka@NyOaShPoAoM.com> writes:
}
}> On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 04:32:36 -0000, R J Valentine <rj@smart.net>
}> wrote:
}>
}>>Genuflecting is a whole nother subject. Back when everything was
}>>practically on top of each other, there wasn't that much apparent
}>>confusion about what anyone was genuflecting to. Now things are
}>>spread around a little, and they've thrown in bowing into the mix,
}>>but you still see the occasional person genuflect _after_ receiving
}>>communion (which is in a category of dipping the flag when passing
}>>in review).
}>
}> What do you dip the flag in?
}
} "Salute", I believe.
"Error". The American flag is never dipped when passing in review. Unit
flags go down horizontal, and like Army flags go down 45 degrees (= BrE
"50 grads"). Everyone's eyes go right except the right-hand column, and
the unit commander might even salute. But the flag flies high.
Mr. Ward of course was making a funny. Mr. Kirshenbaum of course realized
it.
Similarly with genuflecting. Whatever it is you'd be genuflecting to (and
opinions may differ), you've got it trumped locally, so to say.
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:rj@smart.net> |
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Evan Kirshenbaum
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:15 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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Jim Ward <tomcatpolka@NyOaShPoAoM.com> writes:
| Quote: | On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 04:32:36 -0000, R J Valentine <rj@smart.net
wrote:
Genuflecting is a whole nother subject. Back when everything was
practically on top of each other, there wasn't that much apparent
confusion about what anyone was genuflecting to. Now things are
spread around a little, and they've thrown in bowing into the mix,
but you still see the occasional person genuflect _after_ receiving
communion (which is in a category of dipping the flag when passing
in review).
What do you dip the flag in?
|
"Salute", I believe.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Usenet is like Tetris for people
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |who still remember how to read.
Palo Alto, CA 94304
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |
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Evan Kirshenbaum
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:15 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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Tony Cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> writes:
| Quote: | Add grandparents. Just a bit ago I kneeled to put young Nicolai's
shoes on. Putting shoes on a 16-month-old is like putting a pumpkin
in your watchpocket. A squirming pumpkin.
|
I would have knelt down, myself.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Well, if you can't believe what you
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |read in a comic book, what can you
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |believe?!
| Bullwinkle J. Moose
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |
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Linz
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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"William R Ward" <bill@wards.net> wrote in message
news:m27jm1mfci.fsf@komodo.home.wards.net...
| Quote: | "Laura F. Spira" <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes:
William R Ward wrote:
Kneeling is not a very common activity nowadays,
What evidence do you have for this bizarre assertion?
Just that many churches who used to have their members kneel at
various points in the service no longer do.
|
What does church have to do with it?
My boyfriend doesn't go to church, I do. We kneel roughly the same
amount, and that's a lot. |
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Linz
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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"Tony Cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:mcldv0lgf9bq7buv436b07ctpup4p3e93l@4ax.com...
| Quote: | Add grandparents. Just a bit ago I kneeled to put young Nicolai's
shoes on. Putting shoes on a 16-month-old is like putting a
pumpkin in your watchpocket. A squirming pumpkin.
|
Sit down and sit him on your lap, facing away, then as he tries to
kick and straightens his leg, you can pull the shoe on. |
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