| Author |
Message |
Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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Pat Durkin wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | I know that I find it mildly irritating when I read in a novel "He
lighted her cigarette". Most people I know say "lit", but I rarely
see that in print in US usage. I don't think it is as close to the
door as "knelt", however.
|
You reckon "knelt" is on the way out? Interesting, as I'd class
"kneeled" as plain wrong in modern English (maybe earlier, too: I
don't know): the kind of thing a learner might say.
What does seem to me to be moving toward the exit, though, is "wove".
I hear "weaved" repeatedly but with increasing irritation these days.
Mike.
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Alan Jones
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:18 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:35hielF4m9ufpU3@individual.net...
| Quote: | Pat Durkin wrote:
[...]
I know that I find it mildly irritating when I read in a novel "He
lighted her cigarette". Most people I know say "lit", but I rarely
see that in print in US usage. I don't think it is as close to the
door as "knelt", however.
You reckon "knelt" is on the way out? Interesting, as I'd class
"kneeled" as plain wrong in modern English (maybe earlier, too: I
don't know): the kind of thing a learner might say.
What does seem to me to be moving toward the exit, though, is "wove".
I hear "weaved" repeatedly but with increasing irritation these days.
|
I'm not sure when the same pronunciation is used for both spellings. Do
people who write "kneeled" say "nelt" or "neeld"? Obviously lit/lighted
differ in both ways, as do weaved/wove. But how about spelled/spelt? Is
"felt" likely to become AmE "feeled"?
And all those spellings for "yoghurt" - are there now only two pronunciation
variants, both concerning the vowel of the first syllable?
Alan Jones |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:53 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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Alan Jones wrote:
| Quote: | "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:35hielF4m9ufpU3@individual.net...
Pat Durkin wrote:
[...]
I know that I find it mildly irritating when I read in a novel
"He
lighted her cigarette". Most people I know say "lit", but I
rarely
see that in print in US usage. I don't think it is as close to
the
door as "knelt", however.
You reckon "knelt" is on the way out? Interesting, as I'd class
"kneeled" as plain wrong in modern English (maybe earlier, too: I
don't know): the kind of thing a learner might say.
What does seem to me to be moving toward the exit, though, is
"wove".
I hear "weaved" repeatedly but with increasing irritation these
days.
I'm not sure when the same pronunciation is used for both
spellings.
Do people who write "kneeled" say "nelt" or "neeld"? Obviously
lit/lighted differ in both ways, as do weaved/wove. But how about
spelled/spelt? Is "felt" likely to become AmE "feeled"?
|
Aha! An aspect of the question I hadn't considered. I write "leaped"
and say "lept"; but "reaped" and "reaped". I can't imagine AmE
turning from "left" to "leaved" in the near future.
| Quote: |
And all those spellings for "yoghurt" - are there now only two
pronunciation variants, both concerning the vowel of the first
syllable?
As far as I know, yes. And we really only have the two spellings: -g- |
and -gh-. I can't imagine even one person in a thousand, left, right,
or anti-pond, knows what "yaourt" means; fewer still can know any of
the earlier attempts to spell it which are preserved in OED's amber.
Mike.
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Don A. Gilmore
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:22 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
|
|
"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:35hielF4m9ufpU3@individual.net...
| Quote: | Pat Durkin wrote:
[...]
I know that I find it mildly irritating when I read in a novel "He
lighted her cigarette". Most people I know say "lit", but I rarely
see that in print in US usage. I don't think it is as close to the
door as "knelt", however.
You reckon "knelt" is on the way out? Interesting, as I'd class
"kneeled" as plain wrong in modern English (maybe earlier, too: I
don't know): the kind of thing a learner might say.
What does seem to me to be moving toward the exit, though, is "wove".
I hear "weaved" repeatedly but with increasing irritation these days.
|
As far as I know or can tell, "spelt" has never been used in the US. Just
because it's listed in the dictionary doesn't mean that it is proper or
accepted in any way. That's why it is listed as "chiefly British". The
American dialect of English is slightly different than the British one. We
have different spellings, etc.
I had a girlfriend once who was an Anglophile. She thought it was terribly
clever to spell "color" as "colour". Needless to say, she was sorely
disappointed when her college instructors would deduct points from her
essays for misspelling. Not only is "colour" not *more* correct than the
American spelling, it's an *incorrect* American spelling. Nearly all
British versions are included in most dictionaries--in a separate listing
and with the disclaimer "chiefly British". This does not make them correct
in America. That's why your spell-checker in MS Word will underline
"colour" in red.
If you want to know the proper past tense of "spell", LOOK UP THE WORD
"SPELL". You will find that only the correct version, "spelled", is listed
(at least in all three of my dictionaries).
Don
Kansas City |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:36 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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|
Don A. Gilmore wrote:
| Quote: | "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:35hielF4m9ufpU3@individual.net...
Pat Durkin wrote:
[...]
I know that I find it mildly irritating when I read in a novel
"He
lighted her cigarette". Most people I know say "lit", but I
rarely
see that in print in US usage. I don't think it is as close to
the
door as "knelt", however.
You reckon "knelt" is on the way out? Interesting, as I'd class
"kneeled" as plain wrong in modern English (maybe earlier, too: I
don't know): the kind of thing a learner might say.
What does seem to me to be moving toward the exit, though, is
"wove".
I hear "weaved" repeatedly but with increasing irritation these
days.
As far as I know or can tell, "spelt" has never been used in the
US.
Just because it's listed in the dictionary doesn't mean that it is
proper or accepted in any way. That's why it is listed as "chiefly
British". The American dialect of English is slightly different
than
the British one. We have different spellings, etc.
I had a girlfriend once who was an Anglophile. She thought it was
terribly clever to spell "color" as "colour". Needless to say, she
was sorely disappointed when her college instructors would deduct
points from her essays for misspelling. Not only is "colour" not
*more* correct than the American spelling, it's an *incorrect*
American spelling. Nearly all British versions are included in
most
dictionaries--in a separate listing and with the disclaimer
"chiefly
British". This does not make them correct in America. That's why
your spell-checker in MS Word will underline "colour" in red.
If you want to know the proper past tense of "spell", LOOK UP THE
WORD
"SPELL". You will find that only the correct version, "spelled",
is
listed (at least in all three of my dictionaries).
Don
Kansas City |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:47 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
|
|
Don A. Gilmore wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | As far as I know or can tell, "spelt" has never been used in the
US.
Just because it's listed in the dictionary doesn't mean that it is
proper or accepted in any way. That's why it is listed as "chiefly
British". The American dialect of English is slightly different
than
the British one. We have different spellings, etc.
[...]
Nearly all British versions are included in most
dictionaries--in a separate listing and with the disclaimer
"chiefly
British". This does not make them correct in America. That's why
your spell-checker in MS Word will underline "colour" in red.
If you want to know the proper past tense of "spell", LOOK UP THE
WORD
"SPELL". You will find that only the correct version, "spelled",
is
listed (at least in all three of my dictionaries).
Sorry, why are you telling me this? And, especially, why the fuck are |
you shouting at me? I'm perfectly capable of looking up words I don't
know in one of my seven English dictionaries, thank you; and if I
were not, I'd take in the training better if it arrived in a
conversational tone.
And I think you missed the bit of the thread where an American said
he used "spelt". If memory serves, that's why we're discussing the
matter.
Mike. |
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Robert Bannister
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:52 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
|
|
Alan Jones wrote:
| Quote: | "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:35hielF4m9ufpU3@individual.net...
Pat Durkin wrote:
[...]
I know that I find it mildly irritating when I read in a novel "He
lighted her cigarette". Most people I know say "lit", but I rarely
see that in print in US usage. I don't think it is as close to the
door as "knelt", however.
You reckon "knelt" is on the way out? Interesting, as I'd class
"kneeled" as plain wrong in modern English (maybe earlier, too: I
don't know): the kind of thing a learner might say.
What does seem to me to be moving toward the exit, though, is "wove".
I hear "weaved" repeatedly but with increasing irritation these days.
I'm not sure when the same pronunciation is used for both spellings. Do
people who write "kneeled" say "nelt" or "neeld"? Obviously lit/lighted
differ in both ways, as do weaved/wove. But how about spelled/spelt? Is
"felt" likely to become AmE "feeled"?
And all those spellings for "yoghurt" - are there now only two pronunciation
variants, both concerning the vowel of the first syllable?
|
I'm not at all sure that the second vowel is the same for everyone. I'd
call it a schwa, but I've heard other sounds. I have also heard people
pronouncing the 'h'.
--
Rob Bannister |
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Raymond S. Wise
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
|
|
"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:35igqvF4im5jtU3@individual.net...
| Quote: | Don A. Gilmore wrote:
[...]
As far as I know or can tell, "spelt" has never been used in the
US.
Just because it's listed in the dictionary doesn't mean that it is
proper or accepted in any way. That's why it is listed as "chiefly
British". The American dialect of English is slightly different
than
the British one. We have different spellings, etc.
[...]
Nearly all British versions are included in most
dictionaries--in a separate listing and with the disclaimer
"chiefly
British". This does not make them correct in America. That's why
your spell-checker in MS Word will underline "colour" in red.
If you want to know the proper past tense of "spell", LOOK UP THE
WORD
"SPELL". You will find that only the correct version, "spelled",
is
listed (at least in all three of my dictionaries).
Sorry, why are you telling me this? And, especially, why the fuck are
you shouting at me? I'm perfectly capable of looking up words I don't
know in one of my seven English dictionaries, thank you; and if I
were not, I'd take in the training better if it arrived in a
conversational tone.
And I think you missed the bit of the thread where an American said
he used "spelt". If memory serves, that's why we're discussing the
matter.
|
I'd like to point out that MWCD11 lists /spElt/, that is, the
*pronunciation* "spelt," as a variant for the pronunciation of "spelled." It
does not identify that as a British variant, as it does the -/aIl/
("-aisle") pronunciation of "missile" and the /SE/- ("sheh-") pronunciation
of "schedule" (also identified as occurring in Canadian English).
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com |
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Don A. Gilmore
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
|
|
"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:35igqvF4im5jtU3@individual.net...
| Quote: | Don A. Gilmore wrote:
[...]
As far as I know or can tell, "spelt" has never been used in the
US.
Just because it's listed in the dictionary doesn't mean that it is
proper or accepted in any way. That's why it is listed as "chiefly
British". The American dialect of English is slightly different
than
the British one. We have different spellings, etc.
[...]
Nearly all British versions are included in most
dictionaries--in a separate listing and with the disclaimer
"chiefly
British". This does not make them correct in America. That's why
your spell-checker in MS Word will underline "colour" in red.
If you want to know the proper past tense of "spell", LOOK UP THE
WORD
"SPELL". You will find that only the correct version, "spelled",
is
listed (at least in all three of my dictionaries).
Sorry, why are you telling me this? And, especially, why the fuck are
you shouting at me? I'm perfectly capable of looking up words I don't
know in one of my seven English dictionaries, thank you; and if I
were not, I'd take in the training better if it arrived in a
conversational tone.
And I think you missed the bit of the thread where an American said
he used "spelt". If memory serves, that's why we're discussing the
matter.
|
Aw, go soak your head, Lyle. Don't be such a crybaby.
Don
Kansas City |
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William R Ward
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
|
|
"Alan Jones" <atj@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
| Quote: | "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:35hielF4m9ufpU3@individual.net...
Pat Durkin wrote:
[...]
I know that I find it mildly irritating when I read in a novel "He
lighted her cigarette". Most people I know say "lit", but I rarely
see that in print in US usage. I don't think it is as close to the
door as "knelt", however.
|
I've never noticed "lighted" in a novel; I would expect to see "lit."
Google shows "about 20,900,000" for "lit" and only "about 3,910,000"
for "lighted."
| Quote: | You reckon "knelt" is on the way out? Interesting, as I'd class
"kneeled" as plain wrong in modern English (maybe earlier, too: I
don't know): the kind of thing a learner might say.
|
Kneeling is not a very common activity nowadays, so the fact that it
has an irregular past tense just doesn't come up often. That's
probably why it's dying.
| Quote: | What does seem to me to be moving toward the exit, though, is "wove".
I hear "weaved" repeatedly but with increasing irritation these days.
|
I think it's dependent on meaning: He "weaved" in and out of traffic,
but she "wove" a rug on her loom.
| Quote: | I'm not sure when the same pronunciation is used for both spellings. Do
people who write "kneeled" say "nelt" or "neeld"? Obviously lit/lighted
differ in both ways, as do weaved/wove. But how about spelled/spelt? Is
"felt" likely to become AmE "feeled"?
|
"Kneeled" is "neeld." "Spelled" is "spelld," not "spelt." Of all the
verbs mentioned thus far, "feel" is probably the most common (due to
the abundance of self-help books, psychotherapy, etc.) so its
irregular past tense form is not in any danger of being lost.
| Quote: | And all those spellings for "yoghurt" - are there now only two pronunciation
variants, both concerning the vowel of the first syllable?
|
In AmE, I think there's just one, and there's no "h." yo-gurt.
--
William R Ward bill@wards.net http://bill.wards.net
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Help save the San Jose Earthquakes - http://www.soccersiliconvalley.com/ |
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Laura F. Spira
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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|
William R Ward wrote:
| Quote: | "Alan Jones" <atj@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:35hielF4m9ufpU3@individual.net...
Pat Durkin wrote:
[...]
I know that I find it mildly irritating when I read in a novel "He
lighted her cigarette". Most people I know say "lit", but I rarely
see that in print in US usage. I don't think it is as close to the
door as "knelt", however.
I've never noticed "lighted" in a novel; I would expect to see "lit."
Google shows "about 20,900,000" for "lit" and only "about 3,910,000"
for "lighted."
You reckon "knelt" is on the way out? Interesting, as I'd class
"kneeled" as plain wrong in modern English (maybe earlier, too: I
don't know): the kind of thing a learner might say.
Kneeling is not a very common activity nowadays,
|
What evidence do you have for this bizarre assertion?
so the fact that it
| Quote: | has an irregular past tense just doesn't come up often. That's
probably why it's dying.
|
[..]
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email) |
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Linz
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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|
"William R Ward" <bill@wards.net> wrote in message
news:m2d5vtlr1r.fsf@komodo.home.wards.net...
| Quote: | "Alan Jones" <atj@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:35hielF4m9ufpU3@individual.net...
You reckon "knelt" is on the way out? Interesting, as I'd class
"kneeled" as plain wrong in modern English (maybe earlier, too: I
don't know): the kind of thing a learner might say.
Kneeling is not a very common activity nowadays, so the fact that it
has an irregular past tense just doesn't come up often. That's
probably why it's dying.
|
Kneeling is as common as it's always been. |
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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:30 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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|
Linz wrote:
| Quote: | "William R Ward" wrote:
"Alan Jones" writes:
"Mike Lyle" wrote:
You reckon "knelt" is on the way out? Interesting, as I'd class
"kneeled" as plain wrong in modern English (maybe earlier, too: I
don't know): the kind of thing a learner might say.
Kneeling is not a very common activity nowadays, so the fact that it
has an irregular past tense just doesn't come up often. That's
probably why it's dying.
Kneeling is as common as it's always been.
|
Right, but for me it'd be extremely uncommon. As it always has been.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:17 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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|
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:30:04 -0800, "Skitt" <skitt99@comcast.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | Linz wrote:
"William R Ward" wrote:
"Alan Jones" writes:
"Mike Lyle" wrote:
You reckon "knelt" is on the way out? Interesting, as I'd class
"kneeled" as plain wrong in modern English (maybe earlier, too: I
don't know): the kind of thing a learner might say.
Kneeling is not a very common activity nowadays, so the fact that it
has an irregular past tense just doesn't come up often. That's
probably why it's dying.
Kneeling is as common as it's always been.
Right, but for me it'd be extremely uncommon. As it always has been.
|
How do you at things that are low? Kneeling isn't just a position
assumed in church. I kneel down to look for my shoes under the bed
more often than I kneel in church.
I've been painting woodwork this past week, and spent quite a bit of
time on one or both knees. |
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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:51 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
|
|
Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: | "Skitt" wrote:
Linz wrote:
"William R Ward" wrote:
"Alan Jones" writes:
"Mike Lyle" wrote:
You reckon "knelt" is on the way out? Interesting, as I'd class
"kneeled" as plain wrong in modern English (maybe earlier, too: I
don't know): the kind of thing a learner might say.
Kneeling is not a very common activity nowadays, so the fact that
it has an irregular past tense just doesn't come up often. That's
probably why it's dying.
Kneeling is as common as it's always been.
Right, but for me it'd be extremely uncommon. As it always has been.
How do you at things that are low? Kneeling isn't just a position
assumed in church. I kneel down to look for my shoes under the bed
more often than I kneel in church.
I've been painting woodwork this past week, and spent quite a bit of
time on one or both knees.
|
Funny you should ask. I thought about all of that and can explain that I
don't put my shoes under the bed (they are at the wall, right next to my
side of the bed). I do more squatting than kneeling. I used to kneel in
the yard at times when weeding, but I don't do much of that anymore.
Besides, kneeling in the yard used to get my pants dirty. I don't like
that.
Were I to do some work at the floor level, not that I'm likely to do that
(at my age I avoid as much work as possible), I'd probably just plain plonk
myself down on my ass. Yes -- I hardly ever kneel. That's just the way I
am.
I don't remember kneeling during proposing either, but there were a few
times I was on bended knee when I accompanied my wife at communion in the
Lutheran church she wanted us to attend when we were living in Florida.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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