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John Ings
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:48 pm
Post subject: Yogurt |
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I always thought the pronunciation of 'yogurt' as yoh-gert was
left pondian, and yaw-gert was right-pondian, but I find my
Webster's lists only yoh-gert and spells it two different ways:
'yogurt' and 'yoghurt'. But now I'm looking at a container of the
stuff from a Canadian source that spells it 'yogourt' on both the
English and French sides of the container.
Since it's a Turkish word originally, spelt 'yogurt', I wonder how
they pronounce it?
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Don A. Gilmore
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:02 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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"John Ings" <nodamned@spam.org> wrote in message
news:7mb2v09rei38tatvc1chpaqff930gb72l5@4ax.com...
| Quote: |
I always thought the pronunciation of 'yogurt' as yoh-gert was
left pondian, and yaw-gert was right-pondian, but I find my
Webster's lists only yoh-gert and spells it two different ways:
'yogurt' and 'yoghurt'. But now I'm looking at a container of the
stuff from a Canadian source that spells it 'yogourt' on both the
English and French sides of the container.
Since it's a Turkish word originally, spelt 'yogurt', I wonder how
they pronounce it?
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1. Why would a Webster's dictionary list British pronunciations?
2. If you are left-pondian, why do you use the word "spelt"?
Don
Kansas City |
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Ross Howard
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 12:25 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 08:48:28 -0800, John Ings <nodamned@spam.org>
wrought:
| Quote: |
I always thought the pronunciation of 'yogurt' as yoh-gert was
left pondian, and yaw-gert was right-pondian, but I find my
Webster's lists only yoh-gert and spells it two different ways:
'yogurt' and 'yoghurt'. But now I'm looking at a container of the
stuff from a Canadian source that spells it 'yogourt' on both the
English and French sides of the container.
Since it's a Turkish word originally, spelt 'yogurt', I wonder how
they pronounce it?
|
"nes-LEH".
--
Ross Howard
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John Ings
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:06 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 11:02:33 -0600, "Don A. Gilmore"
<eromlignodNOSPM@kc.rr.com> wrote:
| Quote: | 1. Why would a Webster's dictionary list British pronunciations?
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It does, quite often.
| Quote: | 2. If you are left-pondian, why do you use the word "spelt"?
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It's in my Webster's. |
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John Dean
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:24 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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John Ings wrote:
| Quote: | I always thought the pronunciation of 'yogurt' as yoh-gert was
left pondian, and yaw-gert was right-pondian, but I find my
Webster's lists only yoh-gert and spells it two different ways:
'yogurt' and 'yoghurt'. But now I'm looking at a container of the
stuff from a Canadian source that spells it 'yogourt' on both the
English and French sides of the container.
Since it's a Turkish word originally, spelt 'yogurt', I wonder how
they pronounce it?
|
Since Turkish has only officially used Roman characters for less than a
century, how do we know that the decision to adopt "yogurt" as the
spelling wasn't based on what the Turks saw of the previous Western
attempts to transliterate the Ottoman Turkish script?
--
John Dean
Oxford |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:08 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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John Dean wrote:
| Quote: | John Ings wrote:
I always thought the pronunciation of 'yogurt' as yoh-gert was
left pondian, and yaw-gert was right-pondian, but I find my
Webster's lists only yoh-gert and spells it two different ways:
'yogurt' and 'yoghurt'. But now I'm looking at a container of the
stuff from a Canadian source that spells it 'yogourt' on both the
English and French sides of the container.
Since it's a Turkish word originally, spelt 'yogurt', I wonder how
they pronounce it?
Since Turkish has only officially used Roman characters for less
than
a century, how do we know that the decision to adopt "yogurt" as
the
spelling wasn't based on what the Turks saw of the previous Western
attempts to transliterate the Ottoman Turkish script?
|
Nice idea. I suppose there must have been, or at least could have
been, elements of that about the process. But the Turkish reformers
were producing a distinctively Turkish alphabet, though of course it
was based on Roman characters, so I don't think we can push it far.
As late as 1971, the Concise Oxford Turkish Dictionary (unrevised
since 1959) was giving "Yaourt (a kind of sour milk)" as the English
for Turkish _yogurt_ (can't find the ASCII for the g with a thing on
top on my crib-sheet).
-gh- is the commonest way of expressing such gutturals in English:
it's like a lightly-pronounced version of the Arabic ghain, or a
Scots or Welsh -ch- with a g instead of a c. I assume that "yaourt"
originated as a French form of the Turkish word, since it's still
found in Fr, alongside _yoghourt_: I think the -gh- almost disappears
in some Turkish speech. (Are you here, Dr Gursey?)
19C Br writers on India seem to have called yogurt "curds": I knew a
Sindi my own age who called it that, too.
Mike. |
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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:40 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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John Ings wrote:
| Quote: | "Don A. Gilmore" wrote:
1. Why would a Webster's dictionary list British pronunciations?
It does, quite often.
2. If you are left-pondian, why do you use the word "spelt"?
It's in my Webster's.
|
If it is a Merriam-Webster dictionary, it probably says something like
chiefly British past and past participle of SPELL
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:42 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | 19C Br writers on India seem to have called yogurt "curds": I knew a
Sindi my own age who called it that, too.
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Oy whey.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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Yusuf B Gursey
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:01 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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John Ings wrote:
| Quote: | I always thought the pronunciation of 'yogurt' as yoh-gert was
left pondian, and yaw-gert was right-pondian, but I find my
Webster's lists only yoh-gert and spells it two different ways:
'yogurt' and 'yoghurt'. But now I'm looking at a container of the
stuff from a Canadian source that spells it 'yogourt' on both the
English and French sides of the container.
Since it's a Turkish word originally, spelt 'yogurt', I wonder how
they pronounce it?
|
in modern roamnized turkish yog~urt (the g has has a small crescnet
like diacritic on top of it).
/o/ low rounded back vowel (short)
/u/ high rounded back vowel (short)
/g~/ in careful speech a lightly voiced laryngeal fricative (in arabic
script represented in a back vowel environment by ghayn, and so in some
rural dialects), frequently in rapid speech (esp. urban speech) a
glide. |
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Yusuf B Gursey
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:05 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | John Dean wrote:
John Ings wrote:
I always thought the pronunciation of 'yogurt' as yoh-gert was
left pondian, and yaw-gert was right-pondian, but I find my
Webster's lists only yoh-gert and spells it two different ways:
'yogurt' and 'yoghurt'. But now I'm looking at a container of the
stuff from a Canadian source that spells it 'yogourt' on both the
English and French sides of the container.
Since it's a Turkish word originally, spelt 'yogurt', I wonder how
they pronounce it?
Since Turkish has only officially used Roman characters for less
than
a century, how do we know that the decision to adopt "yogurt" as
the
spelling wasn't based on what the Turks saw of the previous Western
attempts to transliterate the Ottoman Turkish script?
Nice idea. I suppose there must have been, or at least could have
been, elements of that about the process. But the Turkish reformers
were producing a distinctively Turkish alphabet, though of course it
was based on Roman characters, so I don't think we can push it far.
As late as 1971, the Concise Oxford Turkish Dictionary (unrevised
since 1959) was giving "Yaourt (a kind of sour milk)" as the English
for Turkish _yogurt_ (can't find the ASCII for the g with a thing on
top on my crib-sheet).
-gh- is the commonest way of expressing such gutturals in English:
it's like a lightly-pronounced version of the Arabic ghain, or a
|
see my other post. in perso-arabic based script it was written with
ghayn.
| Quote: | Scots or Welsh -ch- with a g instead of a c. I assume that "yaourt"
originated as a French form of the Turkish word, since it's still
found in Fr, alongside _yoghourt_: I think the -gh- almost disappears
in some Turkish speech. (Are you here, Dr Gursey?)
|
yes, it becomes just a "glide" in rpaid speech, especailly in urban
speech.
| Quote: |
19C Br writers on India seem to have called yogurt "curds": I knew a
Sindi my own age who called it that, too.
Mike. |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:11 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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Skitt wrote:
| Quote: | Mike Lyle wrote:
19C Br writers on India seem to have called yogurt "curds": I knew
a
Sindi my own age who called it that, too.
Oy whey.
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....as little Miss Muffet said when she...
Mike. |
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John Ings
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:18 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 11:40:22 -0800, "Skitt" <skitt99@comcast.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | 1. Why would a Webster's dictionary list British pronunciations?
It does, quite often.
2. If you are left-pondian, why do you use the word "spelt"?
It's in my Webster's.
If it is a Merriam-Webster dictionary, it probably says something like
chiefly British past and past participle of SPELL
|
It says:
spelt1 a pt. and pp. of spell 1.
spelt2 (spelt), n.
a wheat, Triticum aestivum spelta, native to southern Europe and
western Asia, used chiefly for livestock feed. |
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Adrian Bailey
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:26 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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"John Ings" <nodamned@spam.org> wrote in message
news:82h2v0psq57p8b182ojnvagrdpbakoq3o1@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 11:02:33 -0600, "Don A. Gilmore"
eromlignodNOSPM@kc.rr.com> wrote:
2. If you are left-pondian, why do you use the word "spelt"?
It's in my Webster's.
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What a peculiar reason.
Adrian |
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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:26 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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John Ings wrote:
| Quote: | "Skitt" wrote:
1. Why would a Webster's dictionary list British pronunciations?
It does, quite often.
2. If you are left-pondian, why do you use the word "spelt"?
It's in my Webster's.
If it is a Merriam-Webster dictionary, it probably says something
like
chiefly British past and past participle of SPELL
It says:
spelt1 a pt. and pp. of spell 1.
|
Exactly what kind of "Webster's" is your book? There are so many different
ones bearing the name in some form or other, and some of those shouldn't
exist.
| Quote: | spelt2 (spelt), n.
a wheat, Triticum aestivum spelta, native to southern Europe and
western Asia, used chiefly for livestock feed.
|
Yeah, sure, but that's a whole nother thing and a separate entry. I'm sure
that it's not the meaning you wanted.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:40 am
Post subject: Re: Yogurt |
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Skitt wrote:
| Quote: | John Ings wrote:
"Skitt" wrote:
1. Why would a Webster's dictionary list British
pronunciations?
It does, quite often.
2. If you are left-pondian, why do you use the word "spelt"?
It's in my Webster's.
If it is a Merriam-Webster dictionary, it probably says something
like
chiefly British past and past participle of SPELL
It says:
spelt1 a pt. and pp. of spell 1.
Exactly what kind of "Webster's" is your book? There are so many
different ones bearing the name in some form or other, and some of
those shouldn't exist.
|
Back in 1828 it seems the real Webster was reasonably tolerant, as he
has simply:
<SPELL, v.t. pret. and pp. spelled or spelt.>
| Quote: |
spelt2 (spelt), n.
a wheat, Triticum aestivum spelta, native to southern Europe and
western Asia, used chiefly for livestock feed.
Yeah, sure, but that's a whole nother thing and a separate entry.
I'm sure that it's not the meaning you wanted.
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The wholefood shop in Carmarthen, and presumably therefore many
others over here, sells packets of unground spelt. I suppose for
those on the Iron-Age DietT, on which if necessary and if it hasn't
already been done I shall write a food-fad book. Sensational new
revelations by internationally acclaimed noshologist! The Pharaohs'
Sexy Secret of Long Life and Potency! You never even heard of spelt
till now! The Method the Stars don't want you to know! Tan without
harmful sun! Prevents cancer, diabetes, obesity, flatulence; Promotes
regular bowel motions and detoxification; Restores the Natural
BalanceT; Essential for all recovering addicts; Feeds Your Child's
Brain the Natural Way -- proven in trials to raise IQ 120% more than
fasting! Find out why King Tut looked 18 when he was murdered at age
140! Book your copy now!!!
Mike. |
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