| Author |
Message |
Phil C.
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Nesh |
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On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:45:40 +0000, Robin Bignall
<docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:41:34 +0000, "Laura F. Spira"
laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
Robin Bignall wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:48:39 -0000, "mUs1Ka" <mUs1Ka@exite.com> wrote:
Phil C. wrote:
Today I heard the word "nesh" used by an East Midlands (i.e.
Nottingham) regional news presenter as a mildly pejorative term
meaning "prone to feeling the cold". It was the first time I've heard
it since I lived in North Staffs (1970s). A quick web search suggests
it's also seen as a dialect word of Yorks, Lancs, Cheshire, Cumbria
and mid Wales, though in some areas it just means soft.
It's not in COD (9th) but does seem to appear in 10th, acording to a
Googled comment on another NG. The only dictionary I have which
mentions it is the Imperial Dictionary of 1850 which gives it as an
obsolete term meaning soft, tender, nice from AS "nesc". (Not a
reliable source for etymologies).
Does anybody know more about its origin? I wonder if it's use is
becoming more widespread - it is a genuinely useful term for which I
can't think of an obvious synonym.
Definitely a dialect word from my youth, in Shropshire and one I still use
occasionally.
It was slightly pejorative in my youth in Nottingham. Nesh kids were
also prone to be mardy - sulky and whining.
Not surprising if they were feeling parky.
Both words are in COD10.
Nippy out, isn't it.
|
I'm pretty sure we had both nippy and parky in Essex. Partridge
suggests that parky is from very late C19th and (rather
disappointingly) just suggests "characteristic of a park". I suppose
we can imagine someone saying "It's like a park in here" - but only
just. However he also suggests it was Midland dialect for witty,
smart, sharp of tongue. He also adds "cf. dial. parkin, ginger bread."
I'm not sure what link he's suggesting.
I'd have assumed nippy was linked to a "nip" in the air - as in
"biting" cold. However, Partridge gives C19th proletarian "as white as
nip" meaning "as white as snow" from dialect and the herb cat-mint,
covered with a fine white down. I call cat-mint "catnip".
I'd have assumed "nip" was cognate with Latin "nix" for snow(?)
However http://www.superbherbs.net/catnip.htm
-suggests otherwise.
My assumptions don't seem to be worth much these days.
--
Phil C.
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Nesh |
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On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:45:40 +0000, Robin Bignall <docrobin@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:41:34 +0000, "Laura F. Spira"
laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
Robin Bignall wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:48:39 -0000, "mUs1Ka" <mUs1Ka@exite.com> wrote:
Phil C. wrote:
Today I heard the word "nesh" used by an East Midlands (i.e.
Nottingham) regional news presenter as a mildly pejorative term
meaning "prone to feeling the cold". It was the first time I've heard
it since I lived in North Staffs (1970s). A quick web search suggests
it's also seen as a dialect word of Yorks, Lancs, Cheshire, Cumbria
and mid Wales, though in some areas it just means soft.
It's not in COD (9th) but does seem to appear in 10th, acording to a
Googled comment on another NG. The only dictionary I have which
mentions it is the Imperial Dictionary of 1850 which gives it as an
obsolete term meaning soft, tender, nice from AS "nesc". (Not a
reliable source for etymologies).
Does anybody know more about its origin? I wonder if it's use is
becoming more widespread - it is a genuinely useful term for which I
can't think of an obvious synonym.
Definitely a dialect word from my youth, in Shropshire and one I still use
occasionally.
It was slightly pejorative in my youth in Nottingham. Nesh kids were
also prone to be mardy - sulky and whining.
Not surprising if they were feeling parky.
Both words are in COD10.
Nippy out, isn't it.
|
So nippy I'm foundered.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK
(posting from u.c.l.e) |
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Robin Bignall
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:19 am
Post subject: Re: Nesh |
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On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 12:53:37 +0000, Phil C.
<philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 22:45:40 +0000, Robin Bignall
docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:41:34 +0000, "Laura F. Spira"
laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
Robin Bignall wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:48:39 -0000, "mUs1Ka" <mUs1Ka@exite.com> wrote:
Phil C. wrote:
Today I heard the word "nesh" used by an East Midlands (i.e.
Nottingham) regional news presenter as a mildly pejorative term
meaning "prone to feeling the cold". It was the first time I've heard
it since I lived in North Staffs (1970s). A quick web search suggests
it's also seen as a dialect word of Yorks, Lancs, Cheshire, Cumbria
and mid Wales, though in some areas it just means soft.
It's not in COD (9th) but does seem to appear in 10th, acording to a
Googled comment on another NG. The only dictionary I have which
mentions it is the Imperial Dictionary of 1850 which gives it as an
obsolete term meaning soft, tender, nice from AS "nesc". (Not a
reliable source for etymologies).
Does anybody know more about its origin? I wonder if it's use is
becoming more widespread - it is a genuinely useful term for which I
can't think of an obvious synonym.
Definitely a dialect word from my youth, in Shropshire and one I still use
occasionally.
It was slightly pejorative in my youth in Nottingham. Nesh kids were
also prone to be mardy - sulky and whining.
Not surprising if they were feeling parky.
Both words are in COD10.
Nippy out, isn't it.
I'm pretty sure we had both nippy and parky in Essex. Partridge
suggests that parky is from very late C19th and (rather
disappointingly) just suggests "characteristic of a park". I suppose
we can imagine someone saying "It's like a park in here" - but only
just. However he also suggests it was Midland dialect for witty,
smart, sharp of tongue. He also adds "cf. dial. parkin, ginger bread."
I'm not sure what link he's suggesting.
Nippy and parky were both in my father's "born and bred in Nottingham" |
dialect, although he used nippy more often. My wife seems impervious
to the cold, but has admitted that the weather was parky a couple of
times in a dozen years. I've never thought there was any connection
between parkin and parky, or the latter meaning witty. "As sharp as
houses" was one of the expressions used for people who were witty and
quick.
| Quote: | I'd have assumed nippy was linked to a "nip" in the air - as in
"biting" cold. However, Partridge gives C19th proletarian "as white as
nip" meaning "as white as snow" from dialect and the herb cat-mint,
covered with a fine white down. I call cat-mint "catnip".
I'd have assumed "nip" was cognate with Latin "nix" for snow(?)
However http://www.superbherbs.net/catnip.htm
-suggests otherwise.
I'd agree with your 'biting cold' which gives you a nip when you first |
step out of doors.
| Quote: | My assumptions don't seem to be worth much these days.
|
They are beyond price, Phil.
--
wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall
Hertfordshire
England
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Phil C.
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Nesh |
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|
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:19:06 +0000, Robin Bignall
<docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "As sharp as
houses" was one of the expressions used for people who were witty and
quick.
|
I was aware of "as safe as houses". Given that houses are neither
particularly sharp nor safe - and were probably even less so when the
sayings were coined - I wonder if both were a bit of proletarian
irony.
--
Phil C. |
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Robin Bignall
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Nesh |
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On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 12:20:31 +0000, Phil C.
<philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:19:06 +0000, Robin Bignall
docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote:
"As sharp as
houses" was one of the expressions used for people who were witty and
quick.
I was aware of "as safe as houses".
|
I must have been falling asleep when I wrote that. Of course it's "As
safe as houses". I was thinking of "As sharp as a tack", a tack being
one of those short, sharp, broad-headed nails used in those days for
tacking new leather soles onto boots, for example. COD10 gives
"drawing pin" as the AmE example, but tacks are nothing like drawing
pins except in their ability to land sharp side up if you drop a bunch
of them.
Nearest equivalent is on
http://tinyurl.com/4ywum
near the bottom, and called a 'blue cut tack'.
| Quote: | Given that houses are neither
particularly sharp nor safe - and were probably even less so when the
sayings were coined - I wonder if both were a bit of proletarian
irony.
|
Could be, but the Brits (including some proles) who put their money
into purchasing property rather than chucking it away in rent and
boozing have done quite nicely!
There's a whole bunch of these sayings on
http://www.saidwhat.co.uk/spoon/similes.php
--
wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall
Hertfordshire
England |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Nesh |
|
|
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:23:21 +0000, Robin Bignall <docrobin@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 12:20:31 +0000, Phil C.
philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net> wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:19:06 +0000, Robin Bignall
docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote:
"As sharp as
houses" was one of the expressions used for people who were witty and
quick.
I was aware of "as safe as houses".
I must have been falling asleep when I wrote that. Of course it's "As
safe as houses". I was thinking of "As sharp as a tack", a tack being
one of those short, sharp, broad-headed nails used in those days for
tacking new leather soles onto boots, for example. COD10 gives
"drawing pin" as the AmE example, but tacks are nothing like drawing
pins except in their ability to land sharp side up if you drop a bunch
of them.
|
I agree that a thumbtack/drawing pin is not the same as, for example, a
carpet tack.
However, see the following entry in COD10:
"thumbtack n. North American term for DRAWING PIN."
Google UK yields a number of examples of thumbtack in use this side of the
pond.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK
(posting from u.c.l.e) |
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Phil C.
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:30 am
Post subject: Re: Nesh |
|
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On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:51:40 +0000, Peter Duncanson
<mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
However, see the following entry in COD10:
"thumbtack n. North American term for DRAWING PIN."
|
What's brown and tacky?
--
Phil C. |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 2:05 am
Post subject: Re: Nesh |
|
|
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 17:30:16 +0000, Phil C. <philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:51:40 +0000, Peter Duncanson
mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
However, see the following entry in COD10:
"thumbtack n. North American term for DRAWING PIN."
What's brown and tacky?
|
I suspect there are many politicians around the world whose skin colour and
morals fit that description.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK
(posting from u.c.l.e) |
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mUs1Ka
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 2:13 am
Post subject: Re: Nesh |
|
|
Phil C. wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:51:40 +0000, Peter Duncanson
mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
However, see the following entry in COD10:
"thumbtack n. North American term for DRAWING PIN."
What's brown and tacky?
I know this one!!! |
A stick?
--
Ray |
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Phil C.
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 2:48 am
Post subject: Re: Nesh |
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|
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 19:13:21 -0000, "mUs1Ka" <mUs1Ka@exite.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Phil C. wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:51:40 +0000, Peter Duncanson
mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
However, see the following entry in COD10:
"thumbtack n. North American term for DRAWING PIN."
What's brown and tacky?
I know this one!!!
A stick?
|
Nah - a saddle. What's brown and specky?
--
Phil C. |
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Molly Mockford
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 4:52 am
Post subject: Re: Nesh |
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At 19:48:15 on Sat, 22 Jan 2005, Phil C. <philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net>
wrote in <bcb5v0p2dn7mu5kgm01ct5n2eun8q3sqq6@4ax.com>:
| Quote: | On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 19:13:21 -0000, "mUs1Ka" <mUs1Ka@exite.com> wrote:
Phil C. wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:51:40 +0000, Peter Duncanson
mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
However, see the following entry in COD10:
"thumbtack n. North American term for DRAWING PIN."
What's brown and tacky?
I know this one!!!
A stick?
Nah - a saddle. What's brown and specky?
|
Me, when I've been on holiday without contact lenses.
--
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) |
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Robin Bignall
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:09 am
Post subject: Re: Nesh |
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On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:51:40 +0000, Peter Duncanson
<mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:23:21 +0000, Robin Bignall <docrobin@ntlworld.com
wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 12:20:31 +0000, Phil C.
philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net> wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:19:06 +0000, Robin Bignall
docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote:
"As sharp as
houses" was one of the expressions used for people who were witty and
quick.
I was aware of "as safe as houses".
I must have been falling asleep when I wrote that. Of course it's "As
safe as houses". I was thinking of "As sharp as a tack", a tack being
one of those short, sharp, broad-headed nails used in those days for
tacking new leather soles onto boots, for example. COD10 gives
"drawing pin" as the AmE example, but tacks are nothing like drawing
pins except in their ability to land sharp side up if you drop a bunch
of them.
I agree that a thumbtack/drawing pin is not the same as, for example, a
carpet tack.
However, see the following entry in COD10:
"thumbtack n. North American term for DRAWING PIN."
But see the COD10 entry: |
tack1
· n.
1 a small, sharp broad-headed nail. Ø N. Amer. a drawing pin.
I don't think one could describe a drawing pin in BrE as a 'tack'.
'Thumbtack' is an AmE word.
| Quote: | Google UK yields a number of examples of thumbtack in use this side of the
pond.
|
Of that I have no doubt. AmE has been part of our staple diet for
decades. <g>
--
wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall
Hertfordshire
England |
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Robin Bignall
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:15 am
Post subject: Re: Nesh |
|
|
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 19:48:15 +0000, Phil C.
<philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 19:13:21 -0000, "mUs1Ka" <mUs1Ka@exite.com> wrote:
Phil C. wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:51:40 +0000, Peter Duncanson
mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
However, see the following entry in COD10:
"thumbtack n. North American term for DRAWING PIN."
What's brown and tacky?
I know this one!!!
A stick?
Nah - a saddle. What's brown and specky?
|
This one's obvious. It's a daguerreotype of M$'s next operating
system.
--
wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall
Hertfordshire
England |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:16 am
Post subject: Re: Nesh |
|
|
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 23:09:30 +0000, Robin Bignall <docrobin@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:51:40 +0000, Peter Duncanson
mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:23:21 +0000, Robin Bignall <docrobin@ntlworld.com
wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 12:20:31 +0000, Phil C.
philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net> wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:19:06 +0000, Robin Bignall
docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote:
"As sharp as
houses" was one of the expressions used for people who were witty and
quick.
I was aware of "as safe as houses".
I must have been falling asleep when I wrote that. Of course it's "As
safe as houses". I was thinking of "As sharp as a tack", a tack being
one of those short, sharp, broad-headed nails used in those days for
tacking new leather soles onto boots, for example. COD10 gives
"drawing pin" as the AmE example, but tacks are nothing like drawing
pins except in their ability to land sharp side up if you drop a bunch
of them.
I agree that a thumbtack/drawing pin is not the same as, for example, a
carpet tack.
However, see the following entry in COD10:
"thumbtack n. North American term for DRAWING PIN."
But see the COD10 entry:
tack1
· n.
1 a small, sharp broad-headed nail. Ø N. Amer. a drawing pin.
I don't think one could describe a drawing pin in BrE as a 'tack'.
'Thumbtack' is an AmE word.
Google UK yields a number of examples of thumbtack in use this side of the
pond.
Of that I have no doubt. AmE has been part of our staple diet for
decades. <g
|
Hard tack?
--
Peter Duncanson
UK
(posting from u.c.l.e) |
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einde. ocallaghan
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:23 am
Post subject: Re: Nesh |
|
|
Robin Bignall wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:51:40 +0000, Peter Duncanson
mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:23:21 +0000, Robin Bignall <docrobin@ntlworld.com
wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 12:20:31 +0000, Phil C.
philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net> wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:19:06 +0000, Robin Bignall
docrobin@ntlworld.com> wrote:
"As sharp as
houses" was one of the expressions used for people who were witty and
quick.
I was aware of "as safe as houses".
I must have been falling asleep when I wrote that. Of course it's "As
safe as houses". I was thinking of "As sharp as a tack", a tack being
one of those short, sharp, broad-headed nails used in those days for
tacking new leather soles onto boots, for example. COD10 gives
"drawing pin" as the AmE example, but tacks are nothing like drawing
pins except in their ability to land sharp side up if you drop a bunch
of them.
I agree that a thumbtack/drawing pin is not the same as, for example, a
carpet tack.
However, see the following entry in COD10:
"thumbtack n. North American term for DRAWING PIN."
But see the COD10 entry:
tack1
· n.
1 a small, sharp broad-headed nail. Ø N. Amer. a drawing pin.
I don't think one could describe a drawing pin in BrE as a 'tack'.
'Thumbtack' is an AmE word.
Google UK yields a number of examples of thumbtack in use this side of the
pond.
Of that I have no doubt. AmE has been part of our staple diet for
decades. <g
I can remember using both "drawing pin" and "thumbtack" to describe the |
same object in Ireland during the 1950s and 1960s. This was quite
different from the kind of tack we used to keep the carpet attached to
the floor.
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan |
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