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Ben Zimmer
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 2:02 am
Post subject: Re: More stupidities |
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Pat Durkin wrote:
| Quote: |
What was that old spoken song with these words? "Life gets teejous, don't
it?" It comes to mind along with the other two lyrics recently mentioned
here: "Cigareets n Whuskey n Wild Wild Women", and "Jack o' Diamonds".) I
think T Texas Tyler recited one of them (as well as the "Deck of Cards".)
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"Life Gets Tee-Jus, Don't It", a novelty hit for Carson J. Robison in
1948. He followed it up the next year with "More And More Tee-Jus".
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:48 am
Post subject: Re: More stupidities |
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"Pat Durkin" <durkinpa@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:gqE0d.3743$az6.3521@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: |
"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:4140E9B8.731E@worldnet.att.net...
meirman wrote:
And today the Republicans played politics with a resolution
commemorating the third anniversary of 9/11. Despite well-spoken
opposition, they insisted on inserting a "whereas" that said that the
war in Iraq was against terrorism.
Yeah.
They get so clever with words and mixed messages to fool the people that
they find themselves all discombobulated.
Cheney the other day talked about Saddam being hidden and perhaps dead in
the mountains of Pakistan. The announcer said he missed saying Osama's
name
twice. The TV clip showed the master of ceremonies helping the VP realize
he had gotten it wrong.
Now, I know that extemporaneous speech does lend itself to spoonerisms and
other errors in reference, but sometimes it gets a bit teejous.
What was that old spoken song with these words? "Life gets teejous, don't
it?" It comes to mind along with the other two lyrics recently
mentioned
here: "Cigareets n Whuskey n Wild Wild Women", and "Jack o' Diamonds".)
I
think T Texas Tyler recited one of them (as well as the "Deck of Cards".)
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I did get the message providing me with the performer of "Teejous", thanks.
On the first matter, though, I must admit that the person confusing Saddam
with Osama was Rumsfeld (not Cheney), on Friday, before the National Press
Club. I was so discombobulated upon discovering my own error that I
sentenced myself to 20 minutes' worth of listening to him on C-Span. How
embarrassing, to confuse Bush/Cheney/Rummy the one with the others. |
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Timo Valtonen
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:17 pm
Post subject: Re: More stupidities |
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"Igor Sklar" <yaroslavl@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:870e846a.0409080942.ea4dd33@posting.google.com...
| Quote: |
I wish that many old Russian names were retained in the language, for
example Stekolnya ("Glass City") for Stockholm, Chud' ('weird folk')
for Estonia, Kolyvan' for Tallinn, and Samoyeds ('self-eaters') for
the Nenets :)
Or Chukhoniya for Finland... or perhaps Chukhnostan |
;-)
tv
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Igor Sklar
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:55 pm
Post subject: Re: More stupidities |
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Timo Valtonen wrote...
| Quote: | yaroslavl@gmail.com (Igor Sklar) wrote in message
news:<870e846a.0409080942.ea4dd33@posting.google.com>...
I wish that many old Russian names were retained in the language, for
example Stekolnya ("Glass City") for Stockholm, Chud' ('weird folk')
for Estonia, Kolyvan' for Tallinn, and Samoyeds ('self-eaters') for
the Nenets :)
Or Chukhoniya for Finland... or perhaps Chukhnostan 
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Finland used to be called Sum' (<-Suomi, from Fin. suo = 'bog'??), the
word regularly attested in Russian documents since the 11th century.
The Russian derogatary name for Ingrians, 'chukhno'( = chud' + -khno)
was invented by Novgorodians in the 15th century. It was first
attested in the 2nd chronicle of Pskov in 1444: "sem' chukhnov".
The current word Finland allegedly stems from the Gothic word for
hunters, but cf. OHG fenni ('bog'), Goth fani ('dirt').
The future capital of Estonia got its first name from a legendary
hero, Russ. Kolyvan', Est. Kalevipoeg or Fin. Kalevanpoika (cf Lith
kalvis = 'smith'). The first time Tallinn was mentioned in a written
source, was in 1154, on the world map of Al-Idrisi. Its name was
spelled by Al-Idrisi as Qaluwani, probably heard from some Russian
merchants. Kalyvan' was the Russian name for Tallinn until the 18th
century. Peter I called it either Revel or Kolyvan'.
regards |
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Hatunen
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:20 am
Post subject: Re: More stupidities |
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On 12 Sep 2004 04:55:08 -0700, yaroslavl@gmail.com (Igor Sklar)
wrote:
| Quote: | Timo Valtonen wrote...
yaroslavl@gmail.com (Igor Sklar) wrote in message
news:<870e846a.0409080942.ea4dd33@posting.google.com>...
I wish that many old Russian names were retained in the language, for
example Stekolnya ("Glass City") for Stockholm, Chud' ('weird folk')
for Estonia, Kolyvan' for Tallinn, and Samoyeds ('self-eaters') for
the Nenets :)
Or Chukhoniya for Finland... or perhaps Chukhnostan ;-)
Finland used to be called Sum' (<-Suomi, from Fin. suo = 'bog'??), the
word regularly attested in Russian documents since the 11th century.
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"Fen" or "bog" being also, of course, the source of
Finnland/Finland (Fenland), and I believe, Roman "Fennia".
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
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Arpad
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:53 am
Post subject: Re: More stupidities |
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yaroslavl@gmail.com (Igor Sklar) wrote...
| Quote: | Timo Valtonen wrote...
yaroslavl@gmail.com (Igor Sklar) wrote...
I wish that many old Russian names were retained in the language, for
example Stekolnya ("Glass City") for Stockholm, Chud' ('weird folk')
for Estonia, Kolyvan' for Tallinn, and Samoyeds ('self-eaters') for
the Nenets :)
Or Chukhoniya for Finland... or perhaps Chukhnostan ;-)
Finland used to be called Sum' (<-Suomi, from Fin. suo = 'bog'??), the
word regularly attested in Russian documents since the 11th century.
The Russian derogatary name for Ingrians, 'chukhno'( = chud' + -khno)
was invented by Novgorodians in the 15th century. It was first
attested in the 2nd chronicle of Pskov in 1444: "sem' chukhnov".
The current word Finland allegedly stems from the Gothic word for
hunters, but cf. OHG fenni ('bog'), Goth fani ('dirt').
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Etymology of "Finland" was discussed here at length several years ago.
See http://tinyurl.com/5z39h
| Quote: | The future capital of Estonia got its first name from a legendary
hero, Russ. Kolyvan', Est. Kalevipoeg or Fin. Kalevanpoika (cf Lith
kalvis = 'smith'). The first time Tallinn was mentioned in a written
source, was in 1154, on the world map of Al-Idrisi. Its name was
spelled by Al-Idrisi as Qaluwani, probably heard from some Russian
merchants. Kalyvan' was the Russian name for Tallinn until the 18th
century. Peter I called it either Revel or Kolyvan'.
|
Reval means "fox place". Tallinn means "Danish town". The city's
original name was allegedly Lindanisa (Linda's father) but Linda's
father was indeed Kalev (gen. Kalevan).
Arpad |
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Paul J Kriha
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:48 pm
Post subject: Re: More stupidities |
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| Quote: | "Igor Sklar" <yaroslavl@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:870e846a.0409080942.ea4dd33@posting.google.com...
I wish that many old Russian names were retained in the language, for
example Stekolnya ("Glass City") for Stockholm, Chud' ('weird folk')
for Estonia, Kolyvan' for Tallinn, and
Samoyeds ('self-eaters') for the Nenets 
|
Changing the subject ever so slightly....
Regarding Samoyeds, was the name really meant to mean 'self-eaters'
or was it 'lonely-eaters' or 'people-who-eat-alone'?
I'd find 'people-who-eat-alone' more likely case, but then I don't really
know anything about what Samoyeds were up to in them old days.
Paul JK |
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piotr panek
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:10 pm
Post subject: Re: More stupidities |
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Dnia 04-09-12 12:17, w li¶cie od osoby znanej jako Timo Valtonen było:
| Quote: | "Igor Sklar" <yaroslavl@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:870e846a.0409080942.ea4dd33@posting.google.com...
I wish that many old Russian names were retained in the language, for
example Stekolnya ("Glass City") for Stockholm, Chud' ('weird folk')
for Estonia, Kolyvan' for Tallinn, and Samoyeds ('self-eaters') for
the Nenets :)
Or Chukhoniya for Finland... or perhaps Chukhnostan
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And Privislanskij Kraj for Poland :-)
Actually, I wouldn't mind if Russian called Poles "Lachi" or any
historical name until it weren't be "colonial" name. I cannot judge if
Kolyvan' is the old Ruthenian (as I defined Ruthenian in other posts)
name or the name into which Tallin was changed after Russian conquest in
the Northern War period... But since Poland was conquested by Russia for
a century, I am very sensitive (or maybe irritative ) in the Russian
place name topics :-)
piotrek
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piotr panek
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:21 pm
Post subject: Re: More stupidities |
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Dnia 04-09-13 08:48, w li¶cie od osoby znanej jako Paul J Kriha było:
| Quote: |
Changing the subject ever so slightly....
Regarding Samoyeds, was the name really meant to mean 'self-eaters'
or was it 'lonely-eaters' or 'people-who-eat-alone'?
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In old Polish poem "Rozmowa mistrza Polikarpa ze ¶mierci±" the Death has
a face "krzywa jak u samojedzi", with a footnote (from XX century of
course), that "samojedĽ" means a self-eater... So or the author of the
footnote is wrong, or "samojedĽ" really in old Slavic languages meant a
self-eater.
pzdr
piotrek |
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Sericinus hunter
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:27 pm
Post subject: Re: More stupidities |
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Paul J Kriha wrote:
| Quote: | "Igor Sklar" <yaroslavl@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:870e846a.0409080942.ea4dd33@posting.google.com...
I wish that many old Russian names were retained in the language, for
example Stekolnya ("Glass City") for Stockholm, Chud' ('weird folk')
for Estonia, Kolyvan' for Tallinn, and
Samoyeds ('self-eaters') for the Nenets :)
Changing the subject ever so slightly....
Regarding Samoyeds, was the name really meant to mean 'self-eaters'
or was it 'lonely-eaters' or 'people-who-eat-alone'?
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Likely neither. Vasmer favors saami version of this word origin. |
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Igor Sklar
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 8:04 pm
Post subject: Re: More stupidities |
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Sericinus hunter wrote...
| Quote: | Paul J Kriha wrote...
yaroslavl@gmail.com (Igor Sklar) wrote in message
news:<870e846a.0409080942.ea4dd33@posting.google.com>...
I wish that many old Russian names were retained in the language, for
example Stekolnya ("Glass City") for Stockholm, Chud' ('weird folk')
for Estonia, Kolyvan' for Tallinn, and Samoyeds ('self-eaters') for
the Nenets :)
Changing the subject ever so slightly....
Regarding Samoyeds, was the name really meant to mean 'self-eaters'
or was it 'lonely-eaters' or 'people-who-eat-alone'?
Likely neither. Vasmer favors saami version of this word origin.
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True. But the folk etymology explaining the word as "self-eaters" is
nothing new. The first such explanation dates back to 1480s ("Skazanie
o chelovetseh neznaemyh v vostochnoi strane").
The word is first attested in the Russian Primary Chronicle for 1096
as samoyad' (literally, 'self-eaters': samo='self-' + yad='eat').
regards |
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Paul J Kriha
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:51 am
Post subject: Re: More stupidities |
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Igor Sklar <yaroslavl@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:870e846a.0409130604.17dafac3@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | Sericinus hunter wrote...
Paul J Kriha wrote...
yaroslavl@gmail.com (Igor Sklar) wrote in message
news:<870e846a.0409080942.ea4dd33@posting.google.com>...
I wish that many old Russian names were retained in the language, for
example Stekolnya ("Glass City") for Stockholm, Chud' ('weird folk')
for Estonia, Kolyvan' for Tallinn, and Samoyeds ('self-eaters') for
the Nenets :)
Changing the subject ever so slightly....
Regarding Samoyeds, was the name really meant to mean 'self-eaters'
or was it 'lonely-eaters' or 'people-who-eat-alone'?
Likely neither. Vasmer favors saami version of this word origin.
True. But the folk etymology explaining the word as "self-eaters" is
nothing new. The first such explanation dates back to 1480s ("Skazanie
o chelovetseh neznaemyh v vostochnoi strane").
The word is first attested in the Russian Primary Chronicle for 1096
as samoyad' (literally, 'self-eaters': samo='self-' + yad='eat').
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I wouldn't be surprised if the name was of Saami origin and
the Slavic speakers had interpreted it as 'self-eater' as soon
as they encountered it one thousand years ago.
Is there any evidence what-so-ever that Samoyeds engaged in
any kind of self-eating pasttime?
Paul JK |
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piotr panek
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 2:26 pm
Post subject: Re: More stupidities |
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Dnia 04-09-14 07:51, w li¶cie od osoby znanej jako Paul J Kriha było:
| Quote: |
Likely neither. Vasmer favors saami version of this word origin.
True. But the folk etymology explaining the word as "self-eaters" is
nothing new. The first such explanation dates back to 1480s ("Skazanie
o chelovetseh neznaemyh v vostochnoi strane").
The word is first attested in the Russian Primary Chronicle for 1096
as samoyad' (literally, 'self-eaters': samo='self-' + yad='eat').
I wouldn't be surprised if the name was of Saami origin and
the Slavic speakers had interpreted it as 'self-eater' as soon
as they encountered it one thousand years ago.
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Exactly. Even if the very origin wasn't "cannibals", probably it was a
simply association: "saami"-"samo jedi" or sth. like that. But on the
other hand, it explains the first part ("sam"), while "jedi" is not
explained. How it happend, that "sami" changed into "samojedi"
(self-eaters), but not into "samotnicy" (lonely people) or sth. like that?
| Quote: |
Is there any evidence what-so-ever that Samoyeds engaged in
any kind of self-eating pasttime?
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It is not important. They might have never proceed cannibalism, but
people who considered them barbarians (eg. Germans, Balts and Slavs or
even Tartars) would accuse them anyway...
piotrek |
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Igor Sklar
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 3:35 pm
Post subject: Re: More stupidities |
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piotr panek wrote...
| Quote: | Even if the very origin wasn't "cannibals", probably it was a
simply association: "saami"-"samo jedi" or sth. like that. But on the
other hand, it explains the first part ("sam"), while "jedi" is not
explained. How it happend, that "sami" changed into "samojedi"
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Samojad' <- Saam. Norw. gen. "Same-aednam" <- Saam. "Same-jiennam", i.e. Lapland.
regards |
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piotr panek
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2004 4:49 pm
Post subject: Re: More stupidities |
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Dnia 04-09-14 11:35, w li¶cie od osoby znanej jako Igor Sklar było:
| Quote: | piotr panek wrote...
Even if the very origin wasn't "cannibals", probably it was a
simply association: "saami"-"samo jedi" or sth. like that. But on the
other hand, it explains the first part ("sam"), while "jedi" is not
explained. How it happend, that "sami" changed into "samojedi"
Samojad' <- Saam. Norw. gen. "Same-aednam" <- Saam. "Same-jiennam", i.e. Lapland.
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Thank you. Seems reasonable.
So there are at least two possibilities:
- Proto-Eastern Slavs meet tribe/land called "samojednam" or sth. like
that, and adopted this name. Later (maybe very early) as this word
looked like "self-eater", they start to use word "samojed'" already used
as a name of tribe, in the meaning of "a cannibal".
- Proto-Eastern Slavs had had a word "samojed'" = "cannibal" and while
met Northern Finnic tribes called "samejennam", they thought they call
themselves "cannibals"
piotrek |
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