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Dave Jenkins
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 1:24 am
Post subject: "Indisputably" or "Undisputedly" |
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Here's the sentence fragment that gives rise to my questions:
"Esperanto is [indisputably/undisputedly] easier to learn than..."
Is one of those words to be preferred in this context over the other?
And why? My sense is that "indisputably" works better here, but I
can't say just why.
Thanks!
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don groves
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:28 am
Post subject: Re: "Indisputably" or "Undisputedly" |
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In article <b0c722a6.0409071124.64cf7a58@posting.google.com>,
david.f.jenkins@usa.net wrote...
| Quote: | Here's the sentence fragment that gives rise to my questions:
"Esperanto is [indisputably/undisputedly] easier to learn than..."
Is one of those words to be preferred in this context over the other?
And why? My sense is that "indisputably" works better here, but I
can't say just why.
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My sense of the words is that "in"disputable connotes something
that is beyond dispute (in the mind of the speaker) while
"un"disputed(ly) connotes something that has never been disputed
(to the speaker's knowledge).
--
dg
(Now I'll look them up) |
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Don Phillipson
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:16 am
Post subject: Re: "Indisputably" or "Undisputedly" |
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"Dave Jenkins" <david.f.jenkins@usa.net> wrote in message
news:b0c722a6.0409071124.64cf7a58@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | Here's the sentence fragment that gives rise to my questions:
"Esperanto is [indisputably/undisputedly] easier to learn than..."
Is one of those words to be preferred in this context over the other?
And why? My sense is that "indisputably" works better here, but I
can't say just why.
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Indisputably suggests that no one could (in future) dissent.
Undisputedly suggests that no one has yet or in the
past dissented: e.g. Nelly Smith is the undisputed rose-
growing champion of our village.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
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meirman
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:09 am
Post subject: Re: "Indisputably" or "Undisputedly" |
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In alt.english.usage on 7 Sep 2004 12:24:45 -0700
david.f.jenkins@usa.net (Dave Jenkins) posted:
| Quote: | Here's the sentence fragment that gives rise to my questions:
"Esperanto is [indisputably/undisputedly] easier to learn than..."
Is one of those words to be preferred in this context over the other?
And why? My sense is that "indisputably" works better here, but I
can't say just why.
|
It depends what the facts are. The first means that no one is able to
dispute what you are about to say. (whether anyone wants to or not.)
The second means that no one does dispute what you are about to say.
(whether it would be possible to do so or not.)
I haven't heard the rest of the sentence. If it ends in "Chinese", I
would say that both adverbes are generally true (except for those who
grow up in China).
If it ends in "all other languages", I'd say both are false.
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 20 years |
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Dave Jenkins
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:41 pm
Post subject: Re: "Indisputably" or "Undisputedly" |
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meirman <meirman@invalid.com> wrote in message news:<bmmsj0dusoj27omlqf5m8502s3g3p3q4rj@4ax.com>...
| Quote: | In alt.english.usage on 7 Sep 2004 12:24:45 -0700
david.f.jenkins@usa.net (Dave Jenkins) posted:
Here's the sentence fragment that gives rise to my questions:
"Esperanto is [indisputably/undisputedly] easier to learn than..."
Is one of those words to be preferred in this context over the other?
And why? My sense is that "indisputably" works better here, but I
can't say just why.
It depends what the facts are. The first means that no one is able to
dispute what you are about to say. (whether anyone wants to or not.)
The second means that no one does dispute what you are about to say.
(whether it would be possible to do so or not.)
I haven't heard the rest of the sentence. If it ends in "Chinese", I
would say that both adverbes are generally true (except for those who
grow up in China).
If it ends in "all other languages", I'd say both are false.
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Here's the sentence: "Esperanto is [indisputably/undisputedly] easier
to learn than learn than "historically grown" languages [French,
English, etc.]."
As you point out, he probably ought to say "... _most_ "historically
grown" languages..." |
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Christopher Green
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 6:32 am
Post subject: Re: "Indisputably" or "Undisputedly" |
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david.f.jenkins@usa.net (Dave Jenkins) wrote in message news:<b0c722a6.0409080541.9ef53d6@posting.google.com>...
| Quote: | meirman <meirman@invalid.com> wrote in message news:<bmmsj0dusoj27omlqf5m8502s3g3p3q4rj@4ax.com>...
In alt.english.usage on 7 Sep 2004 12:24:45 -0700
david.f.jenkins@usa.net (Dave Jenkins) posted:
Here's the sentence fragment that gives rise to my questions:
"Esperanto is [indisputably/undisputedly] easier to learn than..."
Is one of those words to be preferred in this context over the other?
And why? My sense is that "indisputably" works better here, but I
can't say just why.
It depends what the facts are. The first means that no one is able to
dispute what you are about to say. (whether anyone wants to or not.)
The second means that no one does dispute what you are about to say.
(whether it would be possible to do so or not.)
I haven't heard the rest of the sentence. If it ends in "Chinese", I
would say that both adverbes are generally true (except for those who
grow up in China).
If it ends in "all other languages", I'd say both are false.
Here's the sentence: "Esperanto is [indisputably/undisputedly] easier
to learn than learn than "historically grown" languages [French,
English, etc.]."
As you point out, he probably ought to say "... _most_ "historically
grown" languages..."
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Because the "undisputedly" alternative is probably false (for any
language, regardless of whether Esperanto is easier to learn or not,
you are likely to find at least one person willing to defend the
opinion that Esperanto is not easier to learn), you're left with the
"indisputably" alternative.
But the statement "Esperanto is easier to learn than (some language)"
is testable, for at least some practical definitions of "easier to
learn". So in the absence of widely-accepted experimental results
demonstrating that Esperanto is easier to learn than every other
language of interest, "indisputably" is not only false but gives the
impression that the writer is willing to ride roughshod over anyone
willing to offer facts in dispute of the point.
In the OP's context, "undisputedly" and "indisputably" are
argumentative, impractical to substantiate, and likely to offend many
readers. In short, neither belongs: the sentence is better off without
either one.
--
Chris Green |
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George Hardy
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:20 pm
Post subject: Re: "Indisputably" or "Undisputedly" |
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david.f.jenkins@usa.net (Dave Jenkins) wrote in message news:<b0c722a6.0409071124.64cf7a58@posting.google.com>...
| Quote: | Here's the sentence fragment that gives rise to my questions:
"Esperanto is [indisputably/undisputedly] easier to learn than..."
Is one of those words to be preferred in this context over the other?
And why? My sense is that "indisputably" works better here, but I
can't say just why.
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I use "indisputably" and "undisputed". I would never use
"undisputably" or "indisputed" (Are they words?). I can not
remember ever using "undisputedly", but it does not offend
my ear.
GFH |
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Raymond S. Wise
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 12:17 am
Post subject: Re: "Indisputably" or "Undisputedly" |
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George Hardy wrote:
| Quote: | david.f.jenkins@usa.net (Dave Jenkins) wrote in message
news:<b0c722a6.0409071124.64cf7a58@posting.google.com>...
Here's the sentence fragment that gives rise to my questions:
"Esperanto is [indisputably/undisputedly] easier to learn than..."
Is one of those words to be preferred in this context over the other?
And why? My sense is that "indisputably" works better here, but I
can't say just why.
I use "indisputably" and "undisputed". I would never use
"undisputably" or "indisputed" (Are they words?). I can not
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"Undisputably" and "indisputed" are listed in *The Century Dictionary* of
1895 ( www.century-dictionary.com ). It shows "undisputably" to be rare and
"indisputed" to be obsolete. Noah Webster lists "indisputed" as an entry in
his 1828 dictionary, with no usage label or note. He does not have
"undisputably," but he has "undisputable," which he defines as "a. Not
disputable. [But the word now used is indisputable.]"
| Quote: | remember ever using "undisputedly", but it does not offend
my ear.
GFH
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--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com |
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