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MC
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 7:37 pm
Post subject: Episcopalian Nomenclature |
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What is the usual, conventional, customary or preferred way to refer to
an Episcopalian minister in AmE: Priest? Vicar? Minister? Something else?
Also, would one use the term "curate" to describe a junior cleric?
--
Without a great storyteller, a director's
just a schmuck with a viewfinder.
--Frank Darabont
KILL TROLLS: http://www.schmuckwithanunderwood.com/trolls.htm
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Don Phillipson
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Episcopalian Nomenclature |
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"MC" <copespaz@mapca.inter.net> wrote in message
news:copespaz-5C20B5.09373710102004@news.snafu.de...
| Quote: | What is the usual, conventional, customary or preferred way to refer to
an Episcopalian minister in AmE: Priest? Vicar? Minister? Something else?
|
It depends what his post is. Incumbent is the usual word
(meaning the holder of a post, omitting what it may be.)
For Episcopalians, priest and minister are generic terms
for someone qualified and ordained (British "clerk in holy
orders.") Vicar is the usual term for parish priest.
| Quote: | Also, would one use the term "curate" to describe a junior cleric?
|
Usually yes. It usually means the junior of a two-priest team
in a parish. The term would not be used to designate a junior
cleric in a different organization, e.g. a cathedral.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada) |
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Martin Ambuhl
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:27 am
Post subject: Re: Episcopalian Nomenclature |
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MC wrote:
| Quote: | What is the usual, conventional, customary or preferred way to refer to
an Episcopalian minister in AmE: Priest? Vicar? Minister? Something else?
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Prebendary.
| Quote: | Also, would one use the term "curate" to describe a junior cleric?
|
Yes, one could, but one might wonder what the difference was between a
"curate" (assistant to a parish priest) and an "assistant curate."
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MC
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:33 am
Post subject: Re: Episcopalian Nomenclature |
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In article <2std96F1ok5caU1@uni-berlin.de>,
Martin Ambuhl <mambuhl@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | MC wrote:
What is the usual, conventional, customary or preferred way to refer to
an Episcopalian minister in AmE: Priest? Vicar? Minister? Something else?
Prebendary.
Also, would one use the term "curate" to describe a junior cleric?
Yes, one could, but one might wonder what the difference was between a
"curate" (assistant to a parish priest) and an "assistant curate."
|
Thanks.
--
Without a great storyteller, a director's
just a schmuck with a viewfinder.
--Frank Darabont
KILL TROLLS: http://www.schmuckwithanunderwood.com/trolls.htm |
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MC
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:33 am
Post subject: Re: Episcopalian Nomenclature |
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In article <C1fad.2934$Cb5.21704@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>,
"Don Phillipson" <d.phillipson@ttrryytteell.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "MC" <copespaz@mapca.inter.net> wrote in message
news:copespaz-5C20B5.09373710102004@news.snafu.de...
What is the usual, conventional, customary or preferred way to refer to
an Episcopalian minister in AmE: Priest? Vicar? Minister? Something else?
It depends what his post is. Incumbent is the usual word
(meaning the holder of a post, omitting what it may be.)
For Episcopalians, priest and minister are generic terms
for someone qualified and ordained (British "clerk in holy
orders.") Vicar is the usual term for parish priest.
Also, would one use the term "curate" to describe a junior cleric?
Usually yes. It usually means the junior of a two-priest team
in a parish. The term would not be used to designate a junior
cleric in a different organization, e.g. a cathedral.
|
Thanks.
--
Without a great storyteller, a director's
just a schmuck with a viewfinder.
--Frank Darabont
KILL TROLLS: http://www.schmuckwithanunderwood.com/trolls.htm |
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graham
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:49 am
Post subject: Re: Episcopalian Nomenclature |
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"Don Phillipson" <d.phillipson@ttrryytteell.com> wrote in message
news:C1fad.2934$Cb5.21704@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
| Quote: | "MC" <copespaz@mapca.inter.net> wrote in message
news:copespaz-5C20B5.09373710102004@news.snafu.de...
What is the usual, conventional, customary or preferred way to refer to
an Episcopalian minister in AmE: Priest? Vicar? Minister? Something else?
It depends what his post is. Incumbent is the usual word
(meaning the holder of a post, omitting what it may be.)
For Episcopalians, priest and minister are generic terms
for someone qualified and ordained (British "clerk in holy
orders.") Vicar is the usual term for parish priest.
Also, would one use the term "curate" to describe a junior cleric?
Usually yes. It usually means the junior of a two-priest team
in a parish. The term would not be used to designate a junior
cleric in a different organization, e.g. a cathedral.
--
When I was young, we always used the word "parson". When did that term fall |
out of favour to be replaced by "priest"?
Graham |
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Gary Eickmeier
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 7:00 am
Post subject: Re: Episcopalian Nomenclature |
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MC wrote:
| Quote: | What is the usual, conventional, customary or preferred way to refer to
an Episcopalian minister in AmE: Priest? Vicar? Minister? Something else?
Also, would one use the term "curate" to describe a junior cleric?
I am not Episcopalian, but I have shot enough weddings at All Saints |
Episcopal to know that they are more Catholic than the Catholics, and
they call themselves priests, addressed as "father."
Gary Eickmeier |
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don groves
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:22 am
Post subject: Re: Episcopalian Nomenclature |
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In article <dXkad.2617$vZ5.1382@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>, Gary
Eickmeier at geickmei@tampabay.rr.com poured forth...
| Quote: |
MC wrote:
What is the usual, conventional, customary or preferred way to refer to
an Episcopalian minister in AmE: Priest? Vicar? Minister? Something else?
Also, would one use the term "curate" to describe a junior cleric?
I am not Episcopalian, but I have shot enough weddings at All Saints
Episcopal to know that they are more Catholic than the Catholics, and
they call themselves priests, addressed as "father."
|
More Catholic than the Catholics? If you'd said more catholic
than the Catholics, at least there could be a discussion.
--
dg (domain=ccwebster) |
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Christopher Green
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 9:38 am
Post subject: Re: Episcopalian Nomenclature |
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On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 01:00:57 GMT, Gary Eickmeier
<geickmei@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
MC wrote:
What is the usual, conventional, customary or preferred way to refer to
an Episcopalian minister in AmE: Priest? Vicar? Minister? Something else?
|
Priest, unless he's a bishop or a deacon; see below.
| Quote: | Also, would one use the term "curate" to describe a junior cleric?
|
See below. "Curate" describes the senior minister of a "mission", not
a junior cleric.
| Quote: | I am not Episcopalian, but I have shot enough weddings at All Saints
Episcopal to know that they are more Catholic than the Catholics, and
they call themselves priests, addressed as "father."
|
Must be High Church Episcopalian, then. They do carefully preserve a
lot of traditions that go back to before Henry VIII, and even some
that are Orthodox rather than Roman Catholic.
The general term for a minister authorized to celebrate the sacraments
is "priest"; a second class of ordained minister is "deacon". Both use
the honorific "Reverend". They have further titles depending on their
position: the minister in charge of a parish is "Rector"; the minister
in charge of a mission is "Curate". (A parish is a self-supporting
congregation; a mission is not self-supporting.)
The chief minister of a cathedral is "Dean" and uses the honorific
"Very Reverend". A bishop, who presides over a diocese, uses the
honorific "Right Reverend". Some bishops have an assistant styled
"Archdeacon", who uses the honorific "Venerable".
The Episcopal Church can get a bit title-happy. "The celebrant today
is the Ven. John Sisk, Archdeacon of Chicago, assisted by the Very
Rev. Todd Simmick, Dean of the Cathedral, and the Rev. Canon Joan
Black of the Cathedral staff. Today's preacher is the Rt. Rev. Anne
Remmick, Bishop of Maine."
It is customary, but by no means universal, to address Episcopal
priests as "Father". Unlike some other Protestant denominations, they
are not addressed as "Reverend"; that is used only as part of their
title.
--
Chris Green
--
Chris Green |
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Den
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 9:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Episcopalian Nomenclature |
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Careful! The term rector has a different meaning in BrEng ... your
definition is for AmEng. In Br Eng the difference between a rector and a
vicar relates, I believe, to where the source of the funds used to pay their
stipend comes from ... tythes and all that!
D
"Christopher Green" <cj.green@att.net> wrote in message
news:miujm0p27nnvc9gsf662b1h6l1sh200ltr@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 01:00:57 GMT, Gary Eickmeier
geickmei@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
MC wrote:
What is the usual, conventional, customary or preferred way to refer to
an Episcopalian minister in AmE: Priest? Vicar? Minister? Something
else?
Priest, unless he's a bishop or a deacon; see below.
Also, would one use the term "curate" to describe a junior cleric?
See below. "Curate" describes the senior minister of a "mission", not
a junior cleric.
I am not Episcopalian, but I have shot enough weddings at All Saints
Episcopal to know that they are more Catholic than the Catholics, and
they call themselves priests, addressed as "father."
Must be High Church Episcopalian, then. They do carefully preserve a
lot of traditions that go back to before Henry VIII, and even some
that are Orthodox rather than Roman Catholic.
The general term for a minister authorized to celebrate the sacraments
is "priest"; a second class of ordained minister is "deacon". Both use
the honorific "Reverend". They have further titles depending on their
position: the minister in charge of a parish is "Rector"; the minister
in charge of a mission is "Curate". (A parish is a self-supporting
congregation; a mission is not self-supporting.)
The chief minister of a cathedral is "Dean" and uses the honorific
"Very Reverend". A bishop, who presides over a diocese, uses the
honorific "Right Reverend". Some bishops have an assistant styled
"Archdeacon", who uses the honorific "Venerable".
The Episcopal Church can get a bit title-happy. "The celebrant today
is the Ven. John Sisk, Archdeacon of Chicago, assisted by the Very
Rev. Todd Simmick, Dean of the Cathedral, and the Rev. Canon Joan
Black of the Cathedral staff. Today's preacher is the Rt. Rev. Anne
Remmick, Bishop of Maine."
It is customary, but by no means universal, to address Episcopal
priests as "Father". Unlike some other Protestant denominations, they
are not addressed as "Reverend"; that is used only as part of their
title.
--
Chris Green
--
Chris Green
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Episcopalian Nomenclature |
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"graham" <stratman@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Cufad.703602$gE.423766@pd7tw3no...
| Quote: |
"Don Phillipson" <d.phillipson@ttrryytteell.com> wrote in message
news:C1fad.2934$Cb5.21704@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
"MC" <copespaz@mapca.inter.net> wrote in message
news:copespaz-5C20B5.09373710102004@news.snafu.de...
What is the usual, conventional, customary or preferred way to refer to
an Episcopalian minister in AmE: Priest? Vicar? Minister? Something
else?
It depends what his post is. Incumbent is the usual word
(meaning the holder of a post, omitting what it may be.)
For Episcopalians, priest and minister are generic terms
for someone qualified and ordained (British "clerk in holy
orders.") Vicar is the usual term for parish priest.
Also, would one use the term "curate" to describe a junior cleric?
Usually yes. It usually means the junior of a two-priest team
in a parish. The term would not be used to designate a junior
cleric in a different organization, e.g. a cathedral.
--
When I was young, we always used the word "parson". When did that term
fall
out of favour to be replaced by "priest"?
|
I associate the words parson and dominie to more Calvinist religions. (That
is, when I am not giggling at the replacement of the "pope's nose" with the
"parson's nose" in serving the sunday roast chicken.) Where are you posting
from? Isn't parson more commonly used in the US than in England or
Scotland? |
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graham
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:07 am
Post subject: Re: Episcopalian Nomenclature |
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"Pat Durkin" <durkinpa@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:ubyad.236$NX5.155@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: |
"graham" <stratman@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Cufad.703602$gE.423766@pd7tw3no...
"Don Phillipson" <d.phillipson@ttrryytteell.com> wrote in message
news:C1fad.2934$Cb5.21704@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
"MC" <copespaz@mapca.inter.net> wrote in message
news:copespaz-5C20B5.09373710102004@news.snafu.de...
What is the usual, conventional, customary or preferred way to refer
to
an Episcopalian minister in AmE: Priest? Vicar? Minister? Something
else?
It depends what his post is. Incumbent is the usual word
(meaning the holder of a post, omitting what it may be.)
For Episcopalians, priest and minister are generic terms
for someone qualified and ordained (British "clerk in holy
orders.") Vicar is the usual term for parish priest.
Also, would one use the term "curate" to describe a junior cleric?
Usually yes. It usually means the junior of a two-priest team
in a parish. The term would not be used to designate a junior
cleric in a different organization, e.g. a cathedral.
--
When I was young, we always used the word "parson". When did that term
fall
out of favour to be replaced by "priest"?
I associate the words parson and dominie to more Calvinist religions.
(That
is, when I am not giggling at the replacement of the "pope's nose" with
the
"parson's nose" in serving the sunday roast chicken.) Where are you
posting
from? Isn't parson more commonly used in the US than in England or
Scotland?
I speak of my childhood in rural SE England. The term "priest" was reserved |
for Catholics (and there weren't many of those in the area) and "minister"
or "pastor" for the non-conformists. Admittedly, the local church was
considered to be "low" Anglican.
Graham |
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graham
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:17 am
Post subject: Re: Episcopalian Nomenclature |
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"Christopher Green" <cj.green@att.net> wrote in message
news:miujm0p27nnvc9gsf662b1h6l1sh200ltr@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 01:00:57 GMT, Gary Eickmeier
geickmei@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
Unlike some other Protestant denominations, they
are not addressed as "Reverend"; that is used only as part of their
title.
|
But when are Protestant clerics addressed as "Reverend"? I thought that one
addressed an envelope to the Reverend Mr/Dr Smith but in conversation as
Mr/Dr Smith.
The local radio hosts haven't any idea when to use the title so when they
talk to a minister/pastor/priest etc., they inevitably introduce him with
"Here is the Reverend Smith", begin their questions with "Reverend Smith,
what do you.........."? and finish with "Thankyou, Reverend Smith. That was
the Reverend Smith, pastor etc. of the Whatever Church".
Graham |
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Christopher Green
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:22 am
Post subject: Re: Episcopalian Nomenclature |
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"Den" <nul@nul.nul> wrote in message news:<kVxad.4363$YU4.2996@trnddc06>...
| Quote: | Careful! The term rector has a different meaning in BrEng ... your
definition is for AmEng. In Br Eng the difference between a rector and a
vicar relates, I believe, to where the source of the funds used to pay their
stipend comes from ... tythes and all that!
|
You're quite right... the OP did specifically ask about American
(Domestic and Foreign Missionary Society of the Protestant Episcopal
Church in the United States of America, usually and prudently
shortened to Episcopal Church USA) usage.
--
Chris Green |
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Christopher Green
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:26 am
Post subject: Re: Episcopalian Nomenclature |
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"graham" <stratman@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:<mEDad.714441$gE.452044@pd7tw3no>...
| Quote: | "Christopher Green" <cj.green@att.net> wrote in message
news:miujm0p27nnvc9gsf662b1h6l1sh200ltr@4ax.com...
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 01:00:57 GMT, Gary Eickmeier
geickmei@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
Unlike some other Protestant denominations, they
are not addressed as "Reverend"; that is used only as part of their
title.
But when are Protestant clerics addressed as "Reverend"? I thought that one
addressed an envelope to the Reverend Mr/Dr Smith but in conversation as
Mr/Dr Smith.
The local radio hosts haven't any idea when to use the title so when they
talk to a minister/pastor/priest etc., they inevitably introduce him with
"Here is the Reverend Smith", begin their questions with "Reverend Smith,
what do you.........."? and finish with "Thankyou, Reverend Smith. That was
the Reverend Smith, pastor etc. of the Whatever Church".
Graham
|
If the Rev. Smith were ordained Episcopalian, you would introduce him
as Rev. Smith, but in direct address he would be "Father Smith, ..."
if you were being painfully proper.
--
Chris Green |
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