| Author |
Message |
Orak Listalavostok
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 1:50 am
Post subject: Why is it that only the spanish culture can't learn the Engl |
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I just received the local ballot for the upcoming mayoral election.
Guess what? Surprise! It's printed (AT MY EXPENSE) in English
(the official language of this nation) and, get this, of all
languages, spanish.
Huh? Spanish?
My native language isn't either. Neither is that of my neighbor.
Nor hers. Nor theirs. Few spaniards reside in this town.
Plenty of intelligent Vietnamese. Lots of smart French.
Some Italians. Tons of Chinese. Filipinos. Even Russians.
Yet, few, if any, spanish.
Yet, there it is. Another insult that I PAID FOR!
Shipped right to my door instead of spoken daily
into my telephone handset while calling the dmv.
I just do not understand why this undue American
obsession with the spanish language?
All over America, English and, uh, spanish?
And forcing me to pay for that?
Now, if the spanish wish to talk in their tongue to
their neighbors, let 'em. But, when I AM PAYING FOR
the ballot, I ask, why spanish? Why not Chinese?
Why not French? Why not Italian? Why not German?.
Why only spanish?
The uninspired of you will call me "racist" and "illiterate"
and "illogical" and "biased" ... (and perhaps worse),
and, while you are welcome to your initial opinion
please note that I'm not taking any money from you ...
and I'm not forcing you to pay for my illiteracy.
Why only the spanish?
The number of asians, for example, in my community so vastly
outweigh the spanish that they dwarf the european community.
Yet they don't require "Press 1 for Asian" on every telephone
call I make to a government agency. They score highly in
school. They go to work instead of standing around the Home Depot
(yes, I do know *why* those guys are there at the pickup entrances).
The writing as clear as day. The spanish are somehow different
than the asians, the blacks, the caucasians, the natives, the
polynesians, etc.
But, what is that which is different about the spanish?
What is so different that I should be required to pay for the
absolute laziness of an entire people? Generation after
generation after generation.
No other culture apparently requires me to constantly
& continually pay for their cultural laziness & stupididy.
Please, can someone (anyone) explain to me why it's
just the spanish that can't seem to understand English?
Orak Listalavostok
PS Flame all you like but please answer the question posed.
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raymond o'hara
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:39 am
Post subject: Re: Why is it that only the spanish culture can't learn the |
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"Orak Listalavostok" <oraklistal@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:44d113e9.0410091150.4f29618c@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | I just received the local ballot for the upcoming mayoral election.
Guess what? Surprise! It's printed (AT MY EXPENSE) in English
(the official language of this nation) and, get this, of all
languages, spanish.
Huh? Spanish?
|
There is no official language of The United States and there are lots of
Spanish speaking citizens. Puerto Rico for instance has Spanish as it's
language and large areas of the Southwest have many native Spanish speakers
whose families lived there before the lands were annexed |
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MC
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:47 am
Post subject: Re: Why is it that only the spanish culture can't learn the |
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In article <w0Y9d.97759$He1.11018@attbi_s01>,
"raymond o'hara" <reoh@comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: | I just received the local ballot for the upcoming mayoral election.
Guess what? Surprise! It's printed (AT MY EXPENSE) in English
(the official language of this nation) and, get this, of all
languages, spanish.
Huh? Spanish?
There is no official language of The United States and there are lots of
Spanish speaking citizens. Puerto Rico for instance has Spanish as it's
language and large areas of the Southwest have many native Spanish speakers
whose families lived there before the lands were annexed
|
its
--
Without a great storyteller, a director's
just a schmuck with a viewfinder.
--Frank Darabont
KILL TROLLS: http://www.schmuckwithanunderwood.com/trolls.htm
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:10 am
Post subject: Re: Why is it that only the spanish culture can't learn the |
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On 9 Oct 2004 12:50:01 -0700, oraklistal@yahoo.com (Orak
Listalavostok) wrote:
| Quote: | I just received the local ballot for the upcoming mayoral election.
Guess what? Surprise! It's printed (AT MY EXPENSE) in English
(the official language of this nation) and, get this, of all
languages, spanish.
Huh? Spanish?
My native language isn't either. Neither is that of my neighbor.
Nor hers. Nor theirs. Few spaniards reside in this town.
Plenty of intelligent Vietnamese. Lots of smart French.
Some Italians. Tons of Chinese. Filipinos. Even Russians.
Yet, few, if any, spanish.
Yet, there it is. Another insult that I PAID FOR!
Shipped right to my door instead of spoken daily
into my telephone handset while calling the dmv.
I just do not understand why this undue American
obsession with the spanish language?
All over America, English and, uh, spanish?
And forcing me to pay for that?
Now, if the spanish wish to talk in their tongue to
their neighbors, let 'em. But, when I AM PAYING FOR
the ballot, I ask, why spanish? Why not Chinese?
Why not French? Why not Italian? Why not German?.
Why only spanish?
The uninspired of you will call me "racist" and "illiterate"
and "illogical" and "biased" ... (and perhaps worse),
and, while you are welcome to your initial opinion
please note that I'm not taking any money from you ...
and I'm not forcing you to pay for my illiteracy.
Why only the spanish?
The number of asians, for example, in my community so vastly
outweigh the spanish that they dwarf the european community.
|
I, for one, am on your side. Not that I agree with you in any way,
but I just have to admire anyone that can construct a sentence that
says that the Asians are heavier than the Spanish, and that Asians in
your community are so large that they make the Europeans look like
dwarfs. In my part of the country, the Asians tend to be thin and the
Spanish - especially the ladies - seem to be far from half-vast. I've
never met a dwarf, but I once petted a reindeer. I don't know if it
was a European reindeer or not, though. I couldn't place the accent.
Your diatribe impresses me so much that I'll offer to pay for your
ballot. Send me your address and I'll reimburse you for the cost of
the ballot. I'll even overlook your erroneous statement that English
is the official language of the United States.
| Quote: | Yet they don't require "Press 1 for Asian" on every telephone
call I make to a government agency. They score highly in
school. They go to work instead of standing around the Home Depot
(yes, I do know *why* those guys are there at the pickup entrances).
The writing as clear as day. The spanish are somehow different
than the asians, the blacks, the caucasians, the natives, the
polynesians, etc.
But, what is that which is different about the spanish?
What is so different that I should be required to pay for the
absolute laziness of an entire people? Generation after
generation after generation.
No other culture apparently requires me to constantly
& continually pay for their cultural laziness & stupididy.
Please, can someone (anyone) explain to me why it's
just the spanish that can't seem to understand English?
Orak Listalavostok
PS Flame all you like but please answer the question posed.
|
I'd like to, but without knowing what city or state you live in, it's
pretty difficult to know if Spanish is prevalent enough in the area to
warrant this special attention. There's a certain tin-foil hat style
to your writing that suggests that you're a Californian, and Spanish
is known to be spoken in certain parts of California (even if not your
particular town), but that's just a guess. |
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CyberCypher
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:27 am
Post subject: Re: Why is it that only the spanish culture can't learn the |
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MC wrote on 10 Oct 2004:
| Quote: | In article <w0Y9d.97759$He1.11018@attbi_s01>,
"raymond o'hara" <reoh@comcast.net> wrote:
I just received the local ballot for the upcoming mayoral
election. Guess what? Surprise! It's printed (AT MY EXPENSE) in
English (the official language of this nation) and, get this,
of all languages, spanish.
Huh? Spanish?
There is no official language of The United States and there
are lots of
Spanish speaking citizens.
|
Should that be "Spanish-speaking citizens" or "Spanish speaking-
citizens"?
| Quote: | Puerto Rico for instance has Spanish
as it's language and large areas of the Southwest have many
native Spanish speakers whose families lived there before the
lands were annexed
its
"their" |
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet. |
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MC
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:06 am
Post subject: Re: Why is it that only the spanish culture can't learn the |
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In article <Xns957E41BA9DA89cctxt2002@130.133.1.4>,
CyberCypher <cybercypher@19-16-25-13-01-03.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Puerto Rico for instance has Spanish
as it's language and large areas of the Southwest have many
native Spanish speakers whose families lived there before the
lands were annexed
its
"their"
|
Puerto Rico is plural?
--
Suicide is much easier and more acceptable
in Hollywood than growing old gracefully.
--Julie Burchill
KILL TROLLS: http://www.schmuckwithanunderwood.com/trolls.htm |
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Christopher Green
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:13 am
Post subject: Re: Why is it that only the spanish culture can't learn the |
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On 9 Oct 2004 12:50:01 -0700, oraklistal@yahoo.com (Orak
Listalavostok) wrote:
| Quote: | I just received the local ballot for the upcoming mayoral election.
Guess what? Surprise! It's printed (AT MY EXPENSE) in English
(the official language of this nation) and, get this, of all
languages, spanish.
|
In California, ballots are usually printed in English, Spanish,
Chinese, Vietnamese, Japanese, Korean and Tagalog.
I would say the right of people to vote in the language they best
understand and are least likely to become confused or make mistakes
outweights the cost to the state of having to provide voting materials
in more than one language.
--
Chris Green |
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Dena Jo
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 7:38 am
Post subject: Re: Why is it that only the spanish culture can't learn the |
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[Cross-posting deleted]
On 09 Oct 2004, CyberCypher posted thus:
| Quote: | Puerto Rico for instance has Spanish
as it's language and large areas of the Southwest have many
native Spanish speakers whose families lived there before the
lands were annexed
its
"their"
|
her
--
Dena Jo
Email goes to denajo2 at the dot com variation of the Yahoo domain.
Plonk the bastards:
http://www.schmuckwithanunderwood.com/trolls.html |
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Alan OBrien
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:03 am
Post subject: Re: Why is it that only the spanish culture can't learn the |
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"Christopher Green" <cj.green@att.net> wrote in message
news:i3sgm0pgaohoik47qv7o8dg8kjnooos2sb@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On 9 Oct 2004 12:50:01 -0700, oraklistal@yahoo.com (Orak
Listalavostok) wrote:
I just received the local ballot for the upcoming mayoral election.
Guess what? Surprise! It's printed (AT MY EXPENSE) in English
(the official language of this nation) and, get this, of all
languages, spanish.
|
What is the Spanish for dimpled chad? |
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raymond o'hara
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:28 am
Post subject: Re: Why is it that only the spanish culture can't learn the |
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"Dena Jo" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns957DBD8C5FB96DenaJo@130.133.1.4...
| Quote: | [Cross-posting deleted]
On 09 Oct 2004, CyberCypher posted thus:
Puerto Rico for instance has Spanish
as it's language and large areas of the Southwest have many
native Spanish speakers whose families lived there before the
lands were annexed
its
"their"
her
--
Dena Jo
Email goes to denajo2 at the dot com variation of the Yahoo domain.
Plonk the bastards:
http://www.schmuckwithanunderwood.com/trolls.html
|
It's kind of cute how you language nazies can pounce on a typo but are
non-plussed by racist posts. |
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Michael DeBusk
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:06 am
Post subject: Re: Why is it that only the spanish culture can't learn the |
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[Cross-posting trimmed to two germaine groups]
On 9 Oct 2004 12:50:01 -0700, Orak Listalavostok <oraklistal@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | English (the official language of this nation)
|
English is not the official language of this nation.
| Quote: | Few spaniards reside in this town.
|
Spaniards can't vote in your mayoral election.
| Quote: | Yet, there it is. Another insult that I PAID FOR!
|
Somehow, I doubt that they singled you out to pay for printing the
ballots for the mayoral election. And if they insulted you by printing
it in English and Spanish, you are far too easily insulted.
| Quote: | I just do not understand why this undue American
obsession with the spanish language?
|
Perhaps that's because it's the second most commonly spoken language in
this great nation of ours, and a large percentage of American citizens
speak it as their first language.
If I were running for mayor of your town, I'd want everything possible
to be done so that as many of the voters as possible could clearly
understand the voting instructions.
| Quote: | And forcing me to pay for that?
|
If someone from your town government shows up at your house and holds
you down and takes money out of your pocket and says, "This is to print
stuff in Spanish," let us know.
Maybe it's only they who need it. Or maybe it's they who need it most.
| Quote: | The uninspired of you will call me "racist" and "illiterate"
and "illogical" and "biased" ... (and perhaps worse),
|
Not racist; Mexicans are, at least officially, Caucasian. Not
illiterate; you can quite obviously read and write. Biased, yes, but,
last I checked, that isn't an insult, as we all have biases of one form
or another. Illogical? I don't think so. I find myself uninspired to
insult you at all. Mostly, I think that perhaps you haven't thought
about it from all angles.
| Quote: | and, while you are welcome to your initial opinion
please note that I'm not taking any money from you ...
and I'm not forcing you to pay for my illiteracy.
|
IMHO, you could benefit from a more useful definition of the word
"illiteracy". Anyone who honestly cannot read and write won't have any
problem being unable to read your mayoral ballot regardless of the
language in which it is printed.
| Quote: | Why only the spanish?
|
My opinion? It's the Mexican immigrants who are most likely to need it.
Immigrants from most other countries have had a much better shot at
learning English as a second language than those folks from Mexico.
| Quote: | The number of asians, for example, in my community so vastly
outweigh the spanish that they dwarf the european community.
|
I can't speak for any other country, but I know that in Japan it's
considered a mark of high status to speak English.
| Quote: | They go to work instead of standing around the Home Depot
(yes, I do know *why* those guys are there at the pickup
entrances).
|
If you know why, then why bring it up?
| Quote: | The writing as clear as day.
|
That sentence could use a bit more clarity.
| Quote: | The spanish are somehow different than the asians, the blacks, the
caucasians, the natives, the polynesians, etc.
|
Yes. It's a shame, but that's probably true. Schools in Mexico (and
probably Puerto Rio, but I don't know) really aren't as good as schools
in more wealthy countries.
| Quote: | But, what is that which is different about the spanish?
|
Again, it isn't the Spanish, it's the Mexicans... most of whom are so
poor that Mexico is considered by many to be a third-world country. And
it's close enough that many of us could drive to it.
| Quote: | What is so different that I should be required to pay for the
absolute laziness of an entire people? Generation after
generation after generation.
|
Generation after generation of whom? Of us, perhaps, but not of them.
The Mexican immigrants I know are neither stupid nor lazy. The guys we
have working on our floors (at the hospital where I work) spoke very
little English when they first arived from Mexico, but now they speak
much better English than I speak Spanish. And our floors have never
looked better; they bust their asses.
| Quote: | No other culture apparently requires me to constantly
& continually pay for their cultural laziness & stupididy.
|
It's neither. It's the fact that they come from a country and a culture
where Spanish is the primary language.
| Quote: | Please, can someone (anyone) explain to me why it's
just the spanish that can't seem to understand English?
|
Anyone who has not learned to speak English will not understand it. The
Mexican immigrants haven't learned it yet. There are quite a few of
them. And people are treating them like shit because they can't show up
at our borders already intimately conversant with our culture.
Why print your ballot in Spanish? I think the best answer to that is:
because it's the intelligent thing to do.
For what it's worth, I *like* seeing signs and such in both English and
Spanish. It helps me to learn Spanish. Since you (if I am understanding
you correctly) speak more than one language, you know the benefits of
being bilingual. It's GOOD for you. Good for the brain and the mind.
And when I see things printed in both, I can't help but believe that
those Mexican immigrants who are learning to speak English are getting
the same sort of benefit.
--
Michael DeBusk, Co-Conspirator to Make the World a Better Place
Did he update http://home.earthlink.net/~debu4335/ yet? |
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Michael DeBusk
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:24 am
Post subject: Re: Why is it that only the spanish culture can't learn the |
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On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 03:03:24 GMT, Alan OBrien
<alaneobrienSPAM@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | What is the Spanish for dimpled chad?
|
La lamentación de los Demócratas ;)
--
Michael DeBusk, Co-Conspirator to Make the World a Better Place
Did he update http://home.earthlink.net/~debu4335/ yet? |
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raymond o'hara
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 12:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Why is it that only the spanish culture can't learn the |
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"Michael DeBusk" > > But, what is that which is different about the
spanish?
| Quote: |
Again, it isn't the Spanish, it's the Mexicans... most of whom are so
poor that Mexico is considered by many to be a third-world country. And
it's close enough that many of us could drive to it.
|
There are many Spanish speakers where i live {Massachusetts}very few are
from Mexico, Puerto Ricans and Dominicans predominate. |
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MC
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 1:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Why is it that only the spanish culture can't learn the |
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In article <T%1ad.153631$wV.98704@attbi_s54>,
"raymond o'hara" <reoh@comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: | It's kind of cute how you language nazies can pounce on a typo but are
non-plussed by racist posts.
|
I'm not a nazy.
--
Without a great storyteller, a director's
just a schmuck with a viewfinder.
--Frank Darabont
KILL TROLLS: http://www.schmuckwithanunderwood.com/trolls.htm |
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Bloke
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Why is it that only the spanish culture can't learn the |
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On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 03:28:51 GMT, "raymond o'hara" <reoh@comcast.net>
wrote:
| Quote: |
"Dena Jo" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns957DBD8C5FB96DenaJo@130.133.1.4...
[Cross-posting deleted]
On 09 Oct 2004, CyberCypher posted thus:
Puerto Rico for instance has Spanish
as it's language and large areas of the Southwest have many
native Spanish speakers whose families lived there before the
lands were annexed
its
"their"
her
--
Dena Jo
Email goes to denajo2 at the dot com variation of the Yahoo domain.
Plonk the bastards:
http://www.schmuckwithanunderwood.com/trolls.html
It's kind of cute how you language nazies can pounce on a typo but are
non-plussed by racist posts.
|
I ask the following questions in relation to several remarks posted,
not just the one copied above. Excuse my ignorance - I'm writing from
Ireland: can one be racist only if one is white, and the subject of
one's prejudice is black? Or is it possible to be racist against those
of a different culture? Or those who use a different language? Can
anti-semitism, for example, be bundled with racism? I don't mean to be
disingenuous - I ask from a real desire to understand this idea
better.
In Ireland we do not have a long history of immigration; though, here
in the North we have found other objects for prejudice and bigotry. I
would have thought that a concern for the language one holds dear
could not be extrapolated to indicate a hatred towards those who speak
another language as their mother tongue. Nazis would have been more
likely to accuse someone of "thought crimes" based on such flimsy
evidence....in my humble opinion.
Bloke |
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