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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:56 pm
Post subject: Re: "Go Dutch" |
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On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:12:23 +0200, Poet Fury <devnull@genjerdan.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:12:36 -0700, Carmen L. Abruzzi wrote:
jerry wrote:
Why do people use that word, "Dutch"? I want to know the history about that.
Once upon a time, about the seventeenth century, the
Anglophones loved to denigrate the Dutch as sleazy, wanton
bastards without even a modicum of decency.
And deceitful, apparently. A Dutch uncle is not a real uncle, a Dutch oven
is not a real oven, Dutch courage is not real courage, and a Dutch treat is
no treat at all.
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All true, but the Dutch girls have such lovely legs, tits, and faces,
all is forgiven.
--
Charles Riggs
Actually, there isn't an accented
letter in my email address
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Poet Fury
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:47 am
Post subject: Re: "Go Dutch" |
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On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 18:56:22 +0100, Charles Riggs wrote:
| Quote: | All true, but the Dutch girls have such lovely legs, tits, and faces,
all is forgiven.
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As long as you don't get them in Dutch... ;-)
--
http://www.genjerdan.com/nvm/tdis/index.html
Of course it's music. It has notes in it, doesn't it? |
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meirman
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:46 am
Post subject: Re: "Go Dutch" |
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In alt.english.usage on Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:10:44 +0200
nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) posted:
| Quote: | Carmen L. Abruzzi <carmenlabruzzi@yahoo.com> wrote:
jerry wrote:
Why do people use that word, "Dutch"? I want to know the history about that.
Once upon a time, about the seventeenth century, the
Anglophones loved to denigrate the Dutch as sleazy, wanton
bastards without even a modicum of decency. Of course, it
was all wishful thinking.
The English had been beaten by the Dutch
(under their Memorable admiral Van Broom)
in three successive Anglo-Dutch wars,
and the English were just bad losers.
But 'Dutch treat' isn't all there is to 'Dutch'
in English and American usage.
The little monograph by Spruijt on the subject, 'Total Dutch'
lists over a thousand different ones.
(including related info, like attemps at explanations for the
'Dutch' nicknames of some American presidents and gangsters.)
Not all of it derives from the 'Dutch' though:
much American usage of 'Dutch'
comes from later German immigrants,
and derives from 'Deutsch' rather than Dutch.
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For example, Pennsylvania Dutch are not Dutch. They're from Germany,
like you point out.
And ftr, Pa. Dutch includes many more people than the Amish and
Mennonites and any other group recognizable by their dress. Most Pa.
Dutch in the Philadelphia, Allentown area and west of there are
indistinguishable by appearance and habits from other Pennsylvanians
(except maybe on Sunday Mornings (I don't know), and for some customs
at home.)
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
now in Baltimore 20 years
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meirman
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:49 pm
Post subject: Re: "Go Dutch" |
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In alt.english.usage on Tue, 05 Oct 2004 11:23:31 -0400 Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> posted:
| Quote: | On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 15:48:17 +0100, the renowned Peter Duncanson
mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:12:23 +0200, Poet Fury <devnull@genjerdan.com> wrote:
and a Dutch treat is
no treat at all.
A Dutch treat *is* a treat to the person who is paying for only him/herself,
and not for others as well.
To "treat" someone is to pay for *their* food, drink or entertainment.
A "Dutch treat" is thus not a treat. No point getting your Dutch up
about it- many terms involving nationalities are negative. I hope I'm
not in Dutch with Donna now.
I don't see anything negative about Dutch oven, Dutch auction, Dutch
door, Dutch hoe or "going Dutch".
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"Going Dutch" refers to Dutch treat. You're saying because it doesn't
have the word "treat" in it, it's ok, but Dutch treat is not, even
though they mean the same thing?
| Quote: | According to AH4, "Dutch Cheese"
"Chiefly Northern U.S." is used to refer to cottage cheese.
We also have "Dutchman" (something use to conceal faulty
construction), and "Dutch metal" (a cheap immitation of gold leaf made
from copper and zinc).
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
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s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
now in Baltimore 20 years |
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J. J. Lodder
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 3:03 pm
Post subject: Re: "Go Dutch" |
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Charles Riggs <chriggs@Čircom.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:12:23 +0200, Poet Fury <devnull@genjerdan.com
wrote:
On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:12:36 -0700, Carmen L. Abruzzi wrote:
jerry wrote:
Why do people use that word, "Dutch"? I want to know the history about tha
t.
Once upon a time, about the seventeenth century, the
Anglophones loved to denigrate the Dutch as sleazy, wanton
bastards without even a modicum of decency.
And deceitful, apparently. A Dutch uncle is not a real uncle, a Dutch oven
is not a real oven, Dutch courage is not real courage, and a Dutch treat is
no treat at all.
All true, but the Dutch girls have such lovely legs, tits, and faces,
all is forgiven.
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And by statistics also the broadest hips in the world,
and they are not even McDonalds.
They'll walk right over you,
when they don't like your talk about their ...,
Jan |
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J. J. Lodder
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 3:03 pm
Post subject: Re: "Go Dutch" |
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Poet Fury <devnull@genjerdan.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:12:36 -0700, Carmen L. Abruzzi wrote:
jerry wrote:
Why do people use that word, "Dutch"? I want to know the history about that
..
Once upon a time, about the seventeenth century, the
Anglophones loved to denigrate the Dutch as sleazy, wanton
bastards without even a modicum of decency.
And deceitful, apparently. A Dutch uncle is not a real uncle, a Dutch oven
is not a real oven, Dutch courage is not real courage, and a Dutch treat is
no treat at all.
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How about Hornblower's men,
who always needed (and got) 'a tot of rum'
before going into action?
BTW, how much is 'a tot'?
Jan
--
"The traditions of the Royal Navy are mutiny, homosexuality, and rum."
(Churchill) |
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Tedfriet
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 3:51 pm
Post subject: Re: "Go Dutch" |
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--
Cree Indian prophecy.
"Harvey Van Sickle" <harvey.news@ntlworld.com> schreef in bericht
news:Xns9579A383353D3whhvans@194.168.222.124...
| Quote: | On 05 Oct 2004, Donna Richoux wrote
Here's a list from Collins of words preceded by "Dutch"; I think the
one's
^^^^^^ |
If I may act the Dutch uncle, shouldn't that be: 'the ones' or just 'those'?
| Quote: | I've marked with an asterisk would normally be taken to
imply falsity or inferiority:
auction
barn
cap (2 meanings)
*courage
*disease (deindustrialisation)
doll
door
elm
*gold
guinea pig
hoe
mattress
medicine
*metal
oven
*rise
rush
*treat
*uncle
*wife
--
Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van)
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Daniel James
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 5:05 pm
Post subject: Re: "Go Dutch" |
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In article news:<a5k5m0licinkpl58b5e6tfemtrosbkrjd1@4ax.com>, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
| Quote: | Sure, and a 'Dutch wife" ...
Jan
"An open frame constructed of cane, originally used in the Dutch East
Indies and other hot countries to rest the limbs in bed; also a
bolster used for the same purpose. Called thus because it was round,
fat and just lay there."
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Also "An artificial sexual partner", according to the NSOED.
I'd rate that as fairly deceitful (but at least it won't argue with you).
Cheers,
Daniel. |
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Spehro Pefhany
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:22 pm
Post subject: Re: "Go Dutch" |
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On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 12:05:08 +0100, the renowned Daniel James
<wastebasket@nospam.aaisp.org> wrote:
| Quote: | In article news:<a5k5m0licinkpl58b5e6tfemtrosbkrjd1@4ax.com>, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
Sure, and a 'Dutch wife" ...
Jan
"An open frame constructed of cane, originally used in the Dutch East
Indies and other hot countries to rest the limbs in bed; also a
bolster used for the same purpose. Called thus because it was round,
fat and just lay there."
Also "An artificial sexual partner", according to the NSOED.
I'd rate that as fairly deceitful (but at least it won't argue with you).
Cheers,
Daniel.
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The Japanese obviously use it in that sense. The Y15,000 plaid-skirted
schoolgirl uniforms for their "Datch Waifu" are a nice accessory. At
least you never have to help it with homework.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
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J. J. Lodder
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:26 pm
Post subject: Re: "Go Dutch" |
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Daniel James <wastebasket@nospam.aaisp.org> wrote:
| Quote: | In article news:<a5k5m0licinkpl58b5e6tfemtrosbkrjd1@4ax.com>, Spehro Pefhany w
rote:
Sure, and a 'Dutch wife" ...
Jan
"An open frame constructed of cane, originally used in the Dutch East
Indies and other hot countries to rest the limbs in bed; also a
bolster used for the same purpose. Called thus because it was round,
fat and just lay there."
Also "An artificial sexual partner", according to the NSOED.
I'd rate that as fairly deceitful (but at least it won't argue with you).
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Replaced by an inflatable plastic Marilyn Monroe these days,
Jan |
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J. J. Lodder
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:34 pm
Post subject: Re: "Go Dutch" |
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Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
He doesn't have the final one: A Dutch way out,
Jan |
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Spehro Pefhany
Guest
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Ben Zimmer
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:34 pm
Post subject: Re: "Go Dutch" |
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Spehro Pefhany wrote:
| Quote: |
On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 18:31:03 +0200, the renowned
nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) wrote:
Sure, and a 'Dutch wife" ...
"An open frame constructed of cane, originally used in the Dutch East
Indies and other hot countries to rest the limbs in bed; also a
bolster used for the same purpose. Called thus because it was round,
fat and just lay there."
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We discussed this in an a.u.e/sci.lang thread not too long ago:
http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=411438E1.2E408E1F@midway.uchicago.edu
The "open frame constructed of cane" has a precedent in a Chinese device
that literally translates as "bamboo wife" (zhu2 fu1 ren2). In Java and
Bali, the frame was known as a "guling" (literally, something rollable).
The Dutch colonists likely adapted the frame to their own pillow-like
"rolkussen", which the British then mischievously named "Dutch wife". |
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Harvey Van Sickle
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:09 pm
Post subject: Re: "Go Dutch" |
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On 06 Oct 2004, Tedfriet wrote
| Quote: | Cree Indian prophecy.
"Harvey Van Sickle" <harvey.news@ntlworld.com> schreef in bericht
news:Xns9579A383353D3whhvans@194.168.222.124...
Here's a list from Collins of words preceded by "Dutch"; I think
the one's
^^^^^^
If I may act the Dutch uncle, shouldn't that be: 'the ones' or
just 'those'?
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You may, since you're absolutely right; I should proof-read more
carefully...
--
Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van) |
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J. J. Lodder
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 1:54 pm
Post subject: Re: "Go Dutch" |
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Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 15:34:43 +0200, the renowned
nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) wrote:
Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
And a list of "Dutch" expressions. Unfortunately, without sources.
http://homepages.cwi.nl/~sjoerd/dutch.html
He doesn't have the final one: A Dutch way out,
Jan
Do you have any idea of the origin of that phrase?
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No idea.
The original meaning is just suicide though, not euthanasia.
The problem with Spruijt is that he gives meaning,
but no sources for them.
Sure made a lot of noise, internationaly,
most of it not very well informed.
Best,
Jan |
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