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Hagrinas Mivali
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:02 am
Post subject: Legend |
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The following are possible grades for a report card:
O - OUTSTANDING may be earned by consistently following class rules,
demonstrating overall responsibility, and supporting the learning process.
S - SATISFACTORY may be earned by generally following class rules,
demonstrating responsibility, and supporting the learning process.
N - NEEDS IMPROVEMENT may be earned by displaying a lack of responsibility,
a poor attitude and sometimes disrupting the learning process.
U - UNSATISFACTORY may be earned by showing a disregard for rules and
authority, being disrespectful and frequently disrupting the learning
process.
For some reason, the phrase "UNSATISFACTORY may be earned" seems to be
giving credit where none is due. Am I being too fussy here?
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Harvey Van Sickle
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:02 am
Post subject: Re: Legend |
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On 18 Nov 2004, Hagrinas Mivali wrote
| Quote: | The following are possible grades for a report card:
O - OUTSTANDING may be earned by consistently following class
rules, demonstrating overall responsibility, and supporting the
learning process. S - SATISFACTORY may be earned by generally
following class rules, demonstrating responsibility, and
supporting the learning process. N - NEEDS IMPROVEMENT may be
earned by displaying a lack of responsibility, a poor attitude and
sometimes disrupting the learning process. U - UNSATISFACTORY may
be earned by showing a disregard for rules and authority, being
disrespectful and frequently disrupting the learning process.
For some reason, the phrase "UNSATISFACTORY may be earned" seems
to be giving credit where none is due. Am I being too fussy here?
|
It's an usual form, but I think you are being too fussy --
idiomatically, at least.
I can imagine a formulation along the lines of of "He attended
university, but earned only a failing grade".
--
Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van) |
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Freddy
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:02 am
Post subject: Re: Legend |
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"Harvey Van Sickle" <harvey.news@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95A5DFBCDAED2whhvans@194.168.222.124...
| Quote: | On 18 Nov 2004, Hagrinas Mivali wrote
The following are possible grades for a report card:
O - OUTSTANDING may be earned by consistently following class
rules, demonstrating overall responsibility, and supporting the
learning process. S - SATISFACTORY may be earned by generally
following class rules, demonstrating responsibility, and
supporting the learning process. N - NEEDS IMPROVEMENT may be
earned by displaying a lack of responsibility, a poor attitude and
sometimes disrupting the learning process. U - UNSATISFACTORY may
be earned by showing a disregard for rules and authority, being
disrespectful and frequently disrupting the learning process.
For some reason, the phrase "UNSATISFACTORY may be earned" seems
to be giving credit where none is due. Am I being too fussy here?
It's an usual form, but I think you are being too fussy --
idiomatically, at least.
I can imagine a formulation along the lines of of "He attended
university, but earned only a failing grade".
'The offence earned him a jail sentence.' Common enough.
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Arcadian Rises
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:02 am
Post subject: Re: Legend |
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| Quote: | From: "Hagrinas Mivali"
U - UNSATISFACTORY may be earned by showing a disregard for rules and
authority, being disrespectful and frequently disrupting the learning
process.
For some reason, the phrase "UNSATISFACTORY may be earned" seems to be
giving credit where none is due. Am I being too fussy here?
|
I don't think you being fussy, given the meaning of "earn":
Main Entry: [1]earn
Pronunciation: '&rn
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English ernen, from Old English earnian; akin to Old High
German arnOn to reap, Czech jesen autumn
Date: before 12th century
1 a : to receive as return for effort and especially for work done or services
rendered b : to bring in by way of return <bonds earning 10% interest>
2 a : to come to be duly worthy of or entitled or suited to <she earned a
promotion> b : to make worthy of or obtain for <the suggestion earned him a
promotion>
- earn·er noun
Pronunciation Key
© 2001 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
Merriam-Webster Privacy Policy
=======
IMO "received" would be a better choice. |
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CyberCypher
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:00 am
Post subject: Re: Legend |
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Hagrinas Mivali wrote on 19 Nov 2004:
| Quote: | The following are possible grades for a report card:
O - OUTSTANDING may be earned by consistently following class
rules, demonstrating overall responsibility, and supporting the
learning process. S - SATISFACTORY may be earned by generally
following class rules, demonstrating responsibility, and
supporting the learning process. N - NEEDS IMPROVEMENT may be
earned by displaying a lack of responsibility, a poor attitude and
sometimes disrupting the learning process. U - UNSATISFACTORY may
be earned by showing a disregard for rules and authority, being
disrespectful and frequently disrupting the learning process.
For some reason, the phrase "UNSATISFACTORY may be earned" seems
to be giving credit where none is due. Am I being too fussy here?
|
Yeah. If you earn something, then you deserve it, whether that's an
"outstanding" or an "unsat".
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet. |
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John Dean
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:01 am
Post subject: Re: Legend |
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Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
| Quote: | On 18 Nov 2004, Hagrinas Mivali wrote
The following are possible grades for a report card:
O - OUTSTANDING may be earned by consistently following class
rules, demonstrating overall responsibility, and supporting the
learning process. S - SATISFACTORY may be earned by generally
following class rules, demonstrating responsibility, and
supporting the learning process. N - NEEDS IMPROVEMENT may be
earned by displaying a lack of responsibility, a poor attitude and
sometimes disrupting the learning process. U - UNSATISFACTORY may
be earned by showing a disregard for rules and authority, being
disrespectful and frequently disrupting the learning process.
For some reason, the phrase "UNSATISFACTORY may be earned" seems
to be giving credit where none is due. Am I being too fussy here?
It's an usual form, but I think you are being too fussy --
idiomatically, at least.
I can imagine a formulation along the lines of of "He attended
university, but earned only a failing grade".
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Kinda like enjoying poor health. And earning a reprimand.
--
John Dean
Oxford |
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Arcadian Rises
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:01 am
Post subject: Re: Legend |
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| Quote: | From: "John Dean" john-dean@frag.lineone.net
I can imagine a formulation along the lines of of "He attended
university, but earned only a failing grade".
Kinda like enjoying poor health. And earning a reprimand.
--
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....and being blessed with a philandering husband, or with the lucrative gift of
kleptomania. |
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Django Cat
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:02 am
Post subject: Re: Legend |
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On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:55:38 -0800, "Hagrinas Mivali"
<remove.to.reply@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
| Quote: | The following are possible grades for a report card:
O - OUTSTANDING may be earned by consistently following class rules,
demonstrating overall responsibility, and supporting the learning process.
S - SATISFACTORY may be earned by generally following class rules,
demonstrating responsibility, and supporting the learning process.
N - NEEDS IMPROVEMENT may be earned by displaying a lack of responsibility,
a poor attitude and sometimes disrupting the learning process.
U - UNSATISFACTORY may be earned by showing a disregard for rules and
authority, being disrespectful and frequently disrupting the learning
process.
For some reason, the phrase "UNSATISFACTORY may be earned" seems to be
giving credit where none is due. Am I being too fussy here?
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When I was at school it was:-
SATISFACTORY - I haven't a clue who this kid is.
DC |
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Athel Cornish-Bowden
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Legend |
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Harvey Van Sickle <harvey.news@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<
[ ... ]
| Quote: | It's an usual form, but I think you are being too fussy --
idiomatically, at least.
I'm not much of a one for oying in general, but what did you actually |
mean:
"It's a usual form, and I think you are being too fussy" (where
"usual" might be better replaced by "common")
or "It's an unusual form, but I think you are being too fussy"?
From my experience it would clearly be the second, but that's a
dangerous conclusion, because for all I know there may indeed be many
institutions around the world where this usage is standard even though
I've rarely if ever seen it.
athel
--
Athel Cornish-Bowden
athel@ibsm.cnrs-mrs.fr
http://bip.cnrs-mrs.fr/bip10/homepage.htm |
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Harvey Van Sickle
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Legend |
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On 19 Nov 2004, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote
| Quote: | Harvey Van Sickle <harvey.news@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:
[ ... ]
It's an usual form, but I think you are being too fussy --
idiomatically, at least.
I'm not much of a one for oying in general, but what did you
actually mean:
"It's a usual form, and I think you are being too fussy" (where
"usual" might be better replaced by "common")
or "It's an unusual form, but I think you are being too fussy"?
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Oh, the latter -- it was a straight typo for "unusual".
| Quote: | From my experience it would clearly be the second, but that's a
dangerous conclusion, because for all I know there may indeed be
many institutions around the world where this usage is standard
even though I've rarely if ever seen it.
|
I feel the same: I don't know if it's standard anywhere, but I don't
think it would strike me as grossly illiterate if I heard it spoken.
--
Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van) |
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John Dean
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Legend |
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Arcadian Rises wrote:
| Quote: | From: "John Dean" john-dean@frag.lineone.net
I can imagine a formulation along the lines of of "He attended
university, but earned only a failing grade".
Kinda like enjoying poor health. And earning a reprimand.
--
...and being blessed with a philandering husband, or with the
lucrative gift of kleptomania.
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.... or endowed with a talent for prevaricating ...
--
John Dean
Oxford |
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Mark Barratt
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:03 am
Post subject: Re: Legend |
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Arcadian Rises wrote:
| Quote: | From: "Hagrinas Mivali"
U - UNSATISFACTORY may be earned by showing a disregard for
rules and authority, being disrespectful and frequently
disrupting the learning process.
For some reason, the phrase "UNSATISFACTORY may be earned"
seems to be giving credit where none is due. Am I being too
fussy here?
I don't think you being fussy, given the meaning of "earn":
Main Entry: [1]earn
Pronunciation: '&rn
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English ernen, from Old English earnian; akin
to Old High German arnOn to reap, Czech jesen autumn
Date: before 12th century
1 a : to receive as return for effort and especially for work
done or services rendered b : to bring in by way of return
bonds earning 10% interest> 2 a : to come to be duly worthy of
or entitled or suited to <she earned a promotion> b : to make
worthy of or obtain for <the suggestion earned him a promotion
- earn·er noun
Pronunciation Key
© 2001 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
Merriam-Webster Privacy Policy
=======
IMO "received" would be a better choice.
|
I'm with you on that last, but only because the ambiguity between
the marked and unmarked senses of "earn" make Hagrinas's
quotation sound odd.
Look again at the dictionary definition above and you'll see that
the unmarked sense (1.) carries no automatic positive
connotation. Consider the sentence:
"Last week I didn't go to work, and I earned nothing".
This is an entirely neutral sentence, where "earned" conveys no
sense of deserving or being rewarded. Used in this way the
original quote "Unsatisfactory grade may be earned by..." is
entirely correct.
--
Mark Barratt
Budapest |
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Arcadian Rises
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 6:06 am
Post subject: Re: Legend |
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| Quote: | From: "Mark Barratt"
Arcadian Rises wrote:
IMO "received" [U=unsatisfactory] would be a better choice.
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| Quote: |
I'm with you on that last, but only because the ambiguity between
the marked and unmarked senses of "earn" make Hagrinas's
quotation sound odd.
Look again at the dictionary definition above and you'll see that
the unmarked sense (1.) carries no automatic positive
connotation. Consider the sentence:
"Last week I didn't go to work, and I earned nothing".
This is an entirely neutral sentence, where "earned" conveys no
sense of deserving or being rewarded.
|
Perhaps this is not a good example, because the second sentence is the
consequence of the first; "and" is just for color, "therefore" is the required
word.
| Quote: | Used in this way the
original quote "Unsatisfactory grade may be earned by..." is
entirely correct.
--
Used in this way the
original quote "Unsatisfactory grade may be earned by..." is
entirely correct.
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You persuaded me to change my mind.
Come to think of it, the unsatisfactory grade is earned by some actions, even
efforts, like being disrespectful, disruptive, or showing disregard for rules
and authority. The student wasn't just sitting around quiet and doing nothing,
which would've probably gotten him a B- for showing respect for authority. |
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