| Author |
Message |
Robin Bignall
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Ad[verbs/jectives] |
|
|
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 20:28:42 -0800, don groves <dgroves@domain.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | In article <cngpbj$jrg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, John Dean at
john-dean@frag.lineone.net exposited:
don groves wrote:
The instructor of the poetry seminar I'm currently attending is
of the opinion that adverbs and adjectives are overused and often
reflect poor writing. She claims most adverbs are needed only due
to the weakness of the chosen verb and most adjectives due to the
inaccuracy of the noun. Choosing stronger verbs and more accurate
nouns will eliminate many (most?) adverbs and adjectives.
My tendency is to agree but comments from this esteemed assembly
will be greatly appreciated.
I'd like to know what's on her list of 'poems where adverbs are needed
only due to the weakness of the chosen verb' and poems where adjectives
are needed only 'due to the inaccuracy of the noun'.
Because, frankly, it sounds like horseshit.
I don't think she means poetry specifically, rather writing in
general. She also teaches writing courses. I'll look back through
my old papers and find an example or two...
|
I suspect she's referring to prose in which all reporters have to be
'ace' reporters, all girls have to smile 'prettily', and the like. The
over-sprinkling of adjectives and adverbs turns prose into a series of
clichés, and is most off-putting. It's one of the characteristics of a
poor novelist, in my opinion.
--
wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall
Hertfordshire
England |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Ad[verbs/jectives] |
|
|
jerry_friedman@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | Mike Lyle wrote:
jerry_friedman@yahoo.com wrote:
[...]
the adjectives, though, _are_ the
sense rather than mere amplification of nouns.
Nonsense. It's clearly better to say
till action, lust
Is perjury, murder, blood, fullness of blame,
Savagery, extremity, rudeness, cruelty, unworthiness of trust.
I don't fancy your metre much!
Does that mean you don't want to see "With the Kids", my
improvement
on Yeats?
|
Thank you so much for offering us the opportunity. It would be
absolutely marvellous, but I'm afraid conditions in publishing these
days make it impossible to add any more exciting young poets to our
very full list.
With our very best wishes,
Mike. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
don groves
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:00 am
Post subject: Re: Ad[verbs/jectives] |
|
|
In article <f7dpp05vocgoh5ktktn8bfr09oj14kha72@4ax.com>, Robin
Bignall at docrobin@ntlworld.com exposited:
| Quote: | On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 20:28:42 -0800, don groves <dgroves@domain.net
wrote:
In article <cngpbj$jrg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, John Dean at
john-dean@frag.lineone.net exposited:
don groves wrote:
The instructor of the poetry seminar I'm currently attending is
of the opinion that adverbs and adjectives are overused and often
reflect poor writing. She claims most adverbs are needed only due
to the weakness of the chosen verb and most adjectives due to the
inaccuracy of the noun. Choosing stronger verbs and more accurate
nouns will eliminate many (most?) adverbs and adjectives.
My tendency is to agree but comments from this esteemed assembly
will be greatly appreciated.
I'd like to know what's on her list of 'poems where adverbs are needed
only due to the weakness of the chosen verb' and poems where adjectives
are needed only 'due to the inaccuracy of the noun'.
Because, frankly, it sounds like horseshit.
I don't think she means poetry specifically, rather writing in
general. She also teaches writing courses. I'll look back through
my old papers and find an example or two...
I suspect she's referring to prose in which all reporters have to be
'ace' reporters, all girls have to smile 'prettily', and the like. The
over-sprinkling of adjectives and adverbs turns prose into a series of
clichés, and is most off-putting. It's one of the characteristics of a
poor novelist, in my opinion.
|
True, but it can apply to poetry as well, imho.
--
dg (domain=ccwebster) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
don groves
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:00 am
Post subject: Re: Ad[verbs/jectives] |
|
|
In article <cni718$mkn$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, John Dean at john-
dean@frag.lineone.net exposited:
| Quote: | don groves wrote:
In article <cngpbj$jrg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, John Dean at
john-dean@frag.lineone.net exposited:
don groves wrote:
The instructor of the poetry seminar I'm currently attending is
of the opinion that adverbs and adjectives are overused and often
reflect poor writing. She claims most adverbs are needed only due
to the weakness of the chosen verb and most adjectives due to the
inaccuracy of the noun. Choosing stronger verbs and more accurate
nouns will eliminate many (most?) adverbs and adjectives.
My tendency is to agree but comments from this esteemed assembly
will be greatly appreciated.
I'd like to know what's on her list of 'poems where adverbs are
needed only due to the weakness of the chosen verb' and poems where
adjectives are needed only 'due to the inaccuracy of the noun'.
Because, frankly, it sounds like horseshit.
I don't think she means poetry specifically, rather writing in
general. She also teaches writing courses. I'll look back through
my old papers and find an example or two...
Ah! I was confused by the reference to 'poetry seminar'.
BTW, is the phrase "stronger verbs" one of hers? Does she use the
adjective because she's picked an inaccurate noun? And did you use
'currently' because you chose a weak verb in 'attending'?
|
She/I has/have never said this applies to *all* modifiers. If you
want to pick out a questionable one in what I wrote, why not
"greatly"? That fits the bill.
--
dg (domain=ccwebster) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:00 am
Post subject: Re: Ad[verbs/jectives] |
|
|
don groves wrote:
| Quote: | In article <f7dpp05vocgoh5ktktn8bfr09oj14kha72@4ax.com>, Robin
Bignall at docrobin@ntlworld.com exposited:
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 20:28:42 -0800, don groves
dgroves@domain.net
wrote:
[...]
I don't think she means poetry specifically, rather writing in
general. She also teaches writing courses. I'll look back through
my old papers and find an example or two...
I suspect she's referring to prose in which all reporters have to
be
'ace' reporters, all girls have to smile 'prettily', and the like.
The over-sprinkling of adjectives and adverbs turns prose into a
series of clichés, and is most off-putting. It's one of the
characteristics of a poor novelist, in my opinion.
True, but it can apply to poetry as well, imho.
|
Even more so, I'd say. Each word is more exposed in verse.
But then somebody'll raise the question of Homeric stock epithets:
aren't these clichés? I don't know; but perhaps the exposure I
mentioned is less in the epic form, just because it's long. Perhaps,
too, an audience needs a break from total concentration: if I were
sitting listening to a bard chanting it out with his trusty lyre for
an hour or two...
Mike. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hagrinas Mivali
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:01 am
Post subject: Re: Ad[verbs/jectives] |
|
|
don groves wrote:
| Quote: | The instructor of the poetry seminar I'm currently attending is
of the opinion that adverbs and adjectives are overused and often
reflect poor writing. She claims most adverbs are needed only due
to the weakness of the chosen verb and most adjectives due to the
inaccuracy of the noun. Choosing stronger verbs and more accurate
nouns will eliminate many (most?) adverbs and adjectives.
My tendency is to agree but comments from this esteemed assembly
will be greatly appreciated.
|
Many people would agree with that. I would agree in many cases. In others,
I'd most vehemently disagree.
The best words to use are the ones that best convey the meaning. When
balancing style and substance, it's best to have both. If some people will
take off points for style, it's best to go with the consensus. The
consensus may be against me on this one, but I'd go with a highly discerning
adverb and broader verb over a moderately discerning verb that comes close
in conveying the meaning. Perhaps I could have come up with better nouns in
that last sentence, but if people want to beat me up for it, I can live with
it.
I'm also looking forward to finding out what verb somebody will point out to
represent my vehement disagreement. Perhaps I need a thesaurus. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark Barratt
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:02 am
Post subject: Re: Ad[verbs/jectives] |
|
|
Hagrinas Mivali wrote:
| Quote: | I'm also looking forward to finding out what verb somebody will
point out to represent my vehement disagreement.
|
That's easy. The verb you want is DISAGREE.
--
Mark Barratt
Budapest |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:02 am
Post subject: Re: Ad[verbs/jectives] |
|
|
Mark Barratt wrote:
| Quote: | Hagrinas Mivali wrote:
I'm also looking forward to finding out what verb somebody will
point out to represent my vehement disagreement.
That's easy. The verb you want is DISAGREE.
|
Is "dissent" a shade stronger than "disagree", do you think?
Mike. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark Barratt
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:02 am
Post subject: Re: Ad[verbs/jectives] |
|
|
Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | Mark Barratt wrote:
Hagrinas Mivali wrote:
I'm also looking forward to finding out what verb somebody
will >> point out to represent my vehement disagreement.
That's easy. The verb you want is DISAGREE.
Is "dissent" a shade stronger than "disagree", do you think?
|
I think it depends on how many exclamation marks you follow it
with.
--
Mark Barratt
Budapest |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
don groves
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:01 am
Post subject: Re: Ad[verbs/jectives] |
|
|
In article <xn0dpx9zns7loh008@news.individual.net>, Mark Barratt
at mark.barratt@enternet.hu exposited:
| Quote: | Mike Lyle wrote:
Mark Barratt wrote:
Hagrinas Mivali wrote:
I'm also looking forward to finding out what verb somebody
will >> point out to represent my vehement disagreement.
That's easy. The verb you want is DISAGREE.
Is "dissent" a shade stronger than "disagree", do you think?
I think it depends on how many exclamation marks you follow it
with.
|
Great idea. Disagree = mildly disagree; disagree! == normal
disagreement; disagree!! = vehemently disagree; and disagree!!! =
violently disagree. Application of this technique would eliminate
lots of adverbs and compact the language.
--
dg (domain=ccwebster) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
FAQ
Memberlist
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in