| Author |
Message |
Robbie
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 12:53 am
Post subject: This & Next |
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When, as in referring to a future day, does NEXT become THIS?
Example : Yesterday [Tuesday the 16th.] a TV channel was promoting its
upcoming attractions and referred to Monday the 22nd. as *this Monday* and
Monday the 29th. as *next Monday*.
(If anyone had asked me on that Tuesday what I'd be doing NEXT Monday I'd
have *assumed* that they meant the following Monday i.e. the 22nd but , of
course, I would have _known_ for sure that they meant the following Monday
if they'd used the term THIS.)
Does the fact that two consecutive Mondays were being referred to - despite
the longish periods concerned - make any difference?
Robbie
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raymond o'hara
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:19 am
Post subject: Re: This & Next |
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"Robbie" <r_mitchell@delscom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cng368$g91$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
| Quote: | When, as in referring to a future day, does NEXT become THIS?
Example : Yesterday [Tuesday the 16th.] a TV channel was promoting its
upcoming attractions and referred to Monday the 22nd. as *this Monday* and
Monday the 29th. as *next Monday*.
(If anyone had asked me on that Tuesday what I'd be doing NEXT Monday I'd
have *assumed* that they meant the following Monday i.e. the 22nd but , of
course, I would have _known_ for sure that they meant the following
Monday
if they'd used the term THIS.)
Does the fact that two consecutive Mondays were being referred to -
despite
the longish periods concerned - make any difference?
Robbie
|
I usually say "this coming monday", it takes longer but removes ambiguity. |
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Jess Askin
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:19 am
Post subject: Re: This & Next |
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"Robbie" <r_mitchell@delscom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cng368$g91$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
| Quote: | When, as in referring to a future day, does NEXT become THIS?
Example : Yesterday [Tuesday the 16th.] a TV channel was promoting its
upcoming attractions and referred to Monday the 22nd. as *this Monday* and
Monday the 29th. as *next Monday*.
(If anyone had asked me on that Tuesday what I'd be doing NEXT Monday I'd
have *assumed* that they meant the following Monday i.e. the 22nd but , of
course, I would have _known_ for sure that they meant the following
Monday
if they'd used the term THIS.)
Does the fact that two consecutive Mondays were being referred to -
despite
the longish periods concerned - make any difference?
|
Yes, I would say that most likely they purposely used this terminology
because they were talking about two successive Mondays. But in general, in
American English at least, there doesn't seem to be any real consensus about
what "this Monday" and "next Monday" mean. If today is Monday the 15th,
"next Monday" can only mean the 22nd; "this Monday" wouldn't be used. As the
week goes on, the probability that "next Monday" means the 22nd decreases.
By Sunday the 21st, "next Monday" would almost certainly mean the 29th. But
usage also differs on different days of the week: on Friday the 19th, "next
Monday" could still mean the 22nd, but on Monday the 15th, "next Thursday"
most likely means Thursday the 25th, rather than Thursday the 18th.
Confusing? You bet; conversations like the following are quite common:
"Do you want to have lunch next Monday?"
"Do you mean this Monday or next Monday?"
"Next Monday -- you know, the Monday after next."
[Daytimers and Blackberrys are pulled out]
"Is that Monday the 22nd or Monday the 29th?"
"What's today?", etc.
In British English, they can say "Monday week" -- does that prevent these
embarrassing exchanges?
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Robbie
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:33 am
Post subject: Re: This & Next |
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"Jess Askin" <nospam@dontbother.net> wrote in message
news:cng4n6$tqj$1@news.netins.net...
| Quote: |
"Robbie" <r_mitchell@delscom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cng368$g91$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
When, as in referring to a future day, does NEXT become THIS?
Example : Yesterday [Tuesday the 16th.] a TV channel was promoting its
upcoming attractions and referred to Monday the 22nd. as *this Monday*
and
Monday the 29th. as *next Monday*.
(If anyone had asked me on that Tuesday what I'd be doing NEXT Monday
I'd
have *assumed* that they meant the following Monday i.e. the 22nd but ,
of
course, I would have _known_ for sure that they meant the following
Monday
if they'd used the term THIS.)
Does the fact that two consecutive Mondays were being referred to -
despite
the longish periods concerned - make any difference?
Yes, I would say that most likely they purposely used this terminology
because they were talking about two successive Mondays. But in general, in
American English at least, there doesn't seem to be any real consensus
about
what "this Monday" and "next Monday" mean. If today is Monday the 15th,
"next Monday" can only mean the 22nd; "this Monday" wouldn't be used. As
the
week goes on, the probability that "next Monday" means the 22nd decreases.
By Sunday the 21st, "next Monday" would almost certainly mean the 29th.
But
usage also differs on different days of the week: on Friday the 19th,
"next
Monday" could still mean the 22nd, but on Monday the 15th, "next Thursday"
most likely means Thursday the 25th, rather than Thursday the 18th.
Confusing? You bet; conversations like the following are quite common:
"Do you want to have lunch next Monday?"
"Do you mean this Monday or next Monday?"
"Next Monday -- you know, the Monday after next."
[Daytimers and Blackberrys are pulled out]
"Is that Monday the 22nd or Monday the 29th?"
"What's today?", etc.
In British English, they can say "Monday week" -- does that prevent these
embarrassing exchanges?
Yes, I think that you're quite correct - i.e. the proximity of the day makes |
the difference and what's more the proximity is not necessarily measured in
days.
For example, you mention *this* & *next* Monday when spoken of on a Friday
and , generally, at least, in western cultures, there is that intervening
week-end adds a further delay [at least in the mind].
For me , Monday or next Monday or this coming Monday will always mean the
Monday that follows; whereas *Monday week* would always mean the next Monday
PLUS a week whether it were stated the previous Tuesday or at 23h30 the
Sunday the day before.
Perhaps the French have it right with their *lundi prochain* and *lundi
huit-jours* approach.
Robbie |
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Jess Askin
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:33 am
Post subject: Re: This & Next |
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|
"raymond o'hara" <reoh@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:vCMmd.418140$D%.324747@attbi_s51...
| Quote: |
"Robbie" <r_mitchell@delscom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cng368$g91$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
When, as in referring to a future day, does NEXT become THIS?
Example : Yesterday [Tuesday the 16th.] a TV channel was promoting its
upcoming attractions and referred to Monday the 22nd. as *this Monday*
and
Monday the 29th. as *next Monday*.
(If anyone had asked me on that Tuesday what I'd be doing NEXT Monday
I'd
have *assumed* that they meant the following Monday i.e. the 22nd but ,
of
course, I would have _known_ for sure that they meant the following
Monday
if they'd used the term THIS.)
Does the fact that two consecutive Mondays were being referred to -
despite
the longish periods concerned - make any difference?
Robbie
I usually say "this coming monday", it takes longer but removes
ambiguity. |
Would you say that on a Monday? How about a Sunday evening? Saturday? |
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Alan Jones
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:33 am
Post subject: Re: This & Next |
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|
"Jess Askin" <nospam@dontbother.net> wrote in message
news:cng4n6$tqj$1@news.netins.net...
| Quote: |
"Robbie" <r_mitchell@delscom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cng368$g91$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
When, as in referring to a future day, does NEXT become THIS?
Example : Yesterday [Tuesday the 16th.] a TV channel was promoting its
upcoming attractions and referred to Monday the 22nd. as *this Monday*
and
Monday the 29th. as *next Monday*.
(If anyone had asked me on that Tuesday what I'd be doing NEXT Monday I'd
have *assumed* that they meant the following Monday i.e. the 22nd but ,
of
course, I would have _known_ for sure that they meant the following
Monday
if they'd used the term THIS.)
Does the fact that two consecutive Mondays were being referred to -
despite
the longish periods concerned - make any difference?
Yes, I would say that most likely they purposely used this terminology
because they were talking about two successive Mondays. But in general, in
American English at least, there doesn't seem to be any real consensus
about
what "this Monday" and "next Monday" mean. If today is Monday the 15th,
"next Monday" can only mean the 22nd; "this Monday" wouldn't be used. As
the
week goes on, the probability that "next Monday" means the 22nd decreases.
By Sunday the 21st, "next Monday" would almost certainly mean the 29th.
But
usage also differs on different days of the week: on Friday the 19th,
"next
Monday" could still mean the 22nd, but on Monday the 15th, "next Thursday"
most likely means Thursday the 25th, rather than Thursday the 18th.
Confusing? You bet; conversations like the following are quite common:
"Do you want to have lunch next Monday?"
"Do you mean this Monday or next Monday?"
"Next Monday -- you know, the Monday after next."
[Daytimers and Blackberrys are pulled out]
"Is that Monday the 22nd or Monday the 29th?"
"What's today?", etc.
In British English, they can say "Monday week" -- does that prevent these
embarrassing exchanges?
|
Alas, no. We forget about the expression "Monday week" and get into just the
same state of confusion. I now stick to using dates after various
misunderstandings of "this" and "next"..
Alan Jones |
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JC Dill
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:33 am
Post subject: Re: This & Next |
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On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:19:46 -0600, "Jess Askin"
<nospam@dontbother.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Yes, I would say that most likely they purposely used this terminology
because they were talking about two successive Mondays.
|
The "next Monday" is next after the first mentioned Monday. If you
have a line full of men and woman, you could speak about the first
woman in line, and then the "next woman", would clearly be the next
one in line. Etc.
jc |
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Nell
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:33 am
Post subject: Re: This & Next |
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|
Jess Askin wrote:
| Quote: | "raymond o'hara" <reoh@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:vCMmd.418140$D%.324747@attbi_s51...
"Robbie" <r_mitchell@delscom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cng368$g91$1@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
When, as in referring to a future day, does NEXT become THIS?
Example : Yesterday [Tuesday the 16th.] a TV channel was promoting its
upcoming attractions and referred to Monday the 22nd. as *this Monday*
and
Monday the 29th. as *next Monday*.
(If anyone had asked me on that Tuesday what I'd be doing NEXT Monday
I'd
have *assumed* that they meant the following Monday i.e. the 22nd but ,
of
course, I would have _known_ for sure that they meant the following
Monday
if they'd used the term THIS.)
Does the fact that two consecutive Mondays were being referred to -
despite
the longish periods concerned - make any difference?
Robbie
I usually say "this coming monday", it takes longer but removes
ambiguity.
Would you say that on a Monday? How about a Sunday evening? Saturday?
On Sunday evening, I'd say "tomorrow", on Saturday "day after tomorrow", |
if that's the Monday I mean, other wise I'd say "a week from Monday".
Nell |
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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:33 am
Post subject: Re: This & Next |
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|
JC Dill wrote:
| Quote: | "Jess Askin" wrote:
Yes, I would say that most likely they purposely used this
terminology because they were talking about two successive Mondays.
The "next Monday" is next after the first mentioned Monday.
|
What "first mentioned" Monday? When I'm saying "next Monday", that's the
only one I'm mentioning. When you say "I'm going to catch the next bus", do
you wait for the second one?
In a context where you mention "this Monday" -- and it is clearly understood
that you were not referring to the one that just passed in this week, but
rather one that is only a few days ahead -- then, and only then, would "next
Monday" be clearly the following one, more than a week ahead.
| Quote: | If you have a line full of men and woman, you could speak about the
first woman in line, and then the "next woman", would clearly be
the next one in line. Etc.
|
Well, yeah, and the next, and the next, and so on, but in that case you
clearly *mentioned* a first woman. When you are "next in line", though, you
are at the head of the line.
I am talking from the logical point, though, and I'm fully aware that
language does not follow logic. That, at times, presents me with problems.
Next! (No, not you -- the one behind you.)
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:34 am
Post subject: Re: This & Next |
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|
JC Dill wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:19:46 -0600, "Jess Askin"
nospam@dontbother.net> wrote:
Yes, I would say that most likely they purposely used this
terminology because they were talking about two successive
Mondays.
The "next Monday" is next after the first mentioned Monday. If you
have a line full of men and woman, you could speak about the first
woman in line, and then the "next woman", would clearly be the next
one in line. Etc.
|
No, I reckon that's "the next Monday", not "next Monday".
I may be hallucinating this, but I vaguely think people in Wales
sometimes say "Monday after".
Mike. |
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JC Dill
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:34 am
Post subject: Re: This & Next |
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|
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:57:42 -0800, "Skitt" <skitt99@comcast.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | JC Dill wrote:
"Jess Askin" wrote:
Yes, I would say that most likely they purposely used this
terminology because they were talking about two successive Mondays.
The "next Monday" is next after the first mentioned Monday.
What "first mentioned" Monday?
|
The two consecutive Monday's mentioned in Jess's example. I was
commenting on how "next Monday" can't really be misinterpreted in that
case.
| Quote: | When I'm saying "next Monday", that's the
only one I'm mentioning.
|
That wasn't the only one they were discussing in Jess's example.
| Quote: | When you say "I'm going to catch the next bus", do
you wait for the second one?
|
If you say "I'm not taking this bus, I'm taking the next bus" then
it's quite clear which bus you mean.
| Quote: | In a context where you mention "this Monday" -- and it is clearly understood
that you were not referring to the one that just passed in this week, but
rather one that is only a few days ahead -- then, and only then, would "next
Monday" be clearly the following one, more than a week ahead.
|
Right.
| Quote: | If you have a line full of men and woman, you could speak about the
first woman in line, and then the "next woman", would clearly be
the next one in line. Etc.
Well, yeah, and the next, and the next, and so on, but in that case you
clearly *mentioned* a first woman. When you are "next in line", though, you
are at the head of the line.
I am talking from the logical point, though, and I'm fully aware that
language does not follow logic. That, at times, presents me with problems.
Next! (No, not you -- the one behind you.)
|
I rarely have problems knowing what "next" means in context. In my
circle, we don't usually refer to "next Monday" or "next weekend"
unless it's modified (the next weekend you have free, the next Monday
when you are in the office, etc.). e.g.: Do you want to go to lunch
on Monday? Do you want to go to lunch Friday, next week? Do you want
to go to lunch the next Friday you are in the office? Do you want to
go hiking the weekend of the 29th? Do you want to go skiing the next
weekend you don't have to work?
jc |
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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 1:34 am
Post subject: Re: This & Next |
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|
JC Dill wrote:
| Quote: | "Skitt" wrote:
JC Dill wrote:
"Jess Askin" wrote:
Yes, I would say that most likely they purposely used this
terminology because they were talking about two successive Mondays.
The "next Monday" is next after the first mentioned Monday.
What "first mentioned" Monday?
The two consecutive Monday's mentioned in Jess's example. I was
commenting on how "next Monday" can't really be misinterpreted in that
case.
|
Oh, that's different. Never mind.
-
Emily Litella
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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Hagrinas Mivali
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:01 am
Post subject: Re: This & Next |
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|
Skitt wrote:
| Quote: | JC Dill wrote:
"Jess Askin" wrote:
Yes, I would say that most likely they purposely used this
terminology because they were talking about two successive Mondays.
The "next Monday" is next after the first mentioned Monday.
What "first mentioned" Monday? When I'm saying "next Monday", that's
the only one I'm mentioning. When you say "I'm going to catch the
next bus", do you wait for the second one?
|
I generally go by car, because that's just how things are around here.
The answer to the question depends on the circumstances, and how the
sentence is stressed. If I were waiting with somebody at the bus stop and we
were anticipating the arrival of the 12:05 bus, and the person asked if I
was planning on taking the bus, I would say "I'm going to catch the next
bus" only if I planned to skip the 12:05 bus. |
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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:01 am
Post subject: Re: This & Next |
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|
Hagrinas Mivali wrote:
| Quote: | Skitt wrote:
JC Dill wrote:
"Jess Askin" wrote:
Yes, I would say that most likely they purposely used this
terminology because they were talking about two successive Mondays.
The "next Monday" is next after the first mentioned Monday.
What "first mentioned" Monday? When I'm saying "next Monday", that's
the only one I'm mentioning. When you say "I'm going to catch the
next bus", do you wait for the second one?
I generally go by car, because that's just how things are around here.
The answer to the question depends on the circumstances, and how the
sentence is stressed. If I were waiting with somebody at the bus stop
and we were anticipating the arrival of the 12:05 bus, and the person
asked if I was planning on taking the bus, I would say "I'm going to
catch the next bus" only if I planned to skip the 12:05 bus.
|
I'd say that if the 12:05 bus were at the stop or leaving. Otherwise, if
the 12:05 bus was not yet in sight, that would mean that I would take it
(the 12:05 bus when it arrives). Language is a crazy thing, but there are
times when lawyers are glad that it is the way it is.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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Hagrinas Mivali
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 6:02 am
Post subject: Re: This & Next |
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|
Skitt wrote:
| Quote: | Hagrinas Mivali wrote:
Skitt wrote:
JC Dill wrote:
"Jess Askin" wrote:
Yes, I would say that most likely they purposely used this
terminology because they were talking about two successive
Mondays.
The "next Monday" is next after the first mentioned Monday.
What "first mentioned" Monday? When I'm saying "next Monday",
that's the only one I'm mentioning. When you say "I'm going to
catch the next bus", do you wait for the second one?
I generally go by car, because that's just how things are around
here.
The answer to the question depends on the circumstances, and how the
sentence is stressed. If I were waiting with somebody at the bus stop
and we were anticipating the arrival of the 12:05 bus, and the person
asked if I was planning on taking the bus, I would say "I'm going to
catch the next bus" only if I planned to skip the 12:05 bus.
I'd say that if the 12:05 bus were at the stop or leaving.
Otherwise, if the 12:05 bus was not yet in sight, that would mean
that I would take it (the 12:05 bus when it arrives). Language is a
crazy thing, but there are times when lawyers are glad that it is the
way it is.
|
In New York City and New Jersey, milk containers are printed with two
phrases to let people know the last legal sale date. One says that the milk
may be sold until midnight of the date stamped, and the other says that the
milk may not be sold after the date stamped. Which one applies depends upon
which state you buy the milk in.
I don't know what the legislators were drinking, but it may not have been
milk.
According to the New York Times Style Guide, midnight of a day occurs at the
end of the day. That's probably the way most people would use it. But once
the clock strikes midnight, it's a new day. The day starts at midnight.
12:00:00 to 12:00:59 would be called midnight and is the first minute of the
day. I'm not really sure what the lawyers had in mind.
According to US law, for a bank, a midnight deadline is midnight on the next
banking day following the banking day on which it receives the relevant item
or notice or from which the time for taking action commences to run,
whichever is later.
I think the best bet is to buy milk in New Jersey. |
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