| Author |
Message |
Y
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:00 am
Post subject: Use "on" or "in"? |
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Which sentence would one use and why:
(a) Execute all the limit orders in the book
(b) Execute all the limit orders on the book
It seems to me that (b) is the best choice. However, I've heard (a) a
lot.
The context is that of a market maker operating from a trading floor.
He has a "book" of buyers and sellers with each buyer/seller entering
an order on this book. Each order is waiting to be filled or executed.
It seems to me one would say the orders are [written] on the book not
[written] in it. In other words, the preposition ON implies the orders
are on the surface of the book. IN would imply inside-of the book and
that is not what one means in this context.
Dis/Agree, why? |
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Bill Bonde ( ``And the La
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:00 am
Post subject: Re: Use "on" or "in"? |
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Y wrote:
| Quote: |
Which sentence would one use and why:
(a) Execute all the limit orders in the book
(b) Execute all the limit orders on the book
It seems to me that (b) is the best choice. However, I've heard (a) a
lot.
The context is that of a market maker operating from a trading floor.
He has a "book" of buyers and sellers with each buyer/seller entering
an order on this book. Each order is waiting to be filled or executed.
It seems to me one would say the orders are [written] on the book not
[written] in it. In other words, the preposition ON implies the orders
are on the surface of the book. IN would imply inside-of the book and
that is not what one means in this context.
Dis/Agree, why?
The right answer is going to depend on what is used on the trading |
floor, not some hyper-logical assessment from people who might have
nothing to do with the markets at all. And the right answer might be
either one. We see both 'on orbit' and 'in orbit' used by knowledgeable
speakers. Logically, 'on' is used if you are writing on the outer
surface of something, say paper, a notepad. If you open something up and
write within, then you'd use 'in'. But, again, logic and prepositions
often take widely different ways home after the dance.
--
"Throw me that lipstick, darling, I wanna redo my stigmata."
+-Jennifer Saunders, "Absolutely Fabulous" |
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Don Phillipson
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:02 am
Post subject: Re: Use "on" or "in"? |
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"Y" <knarty55@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:91aa520c.0411151305.1d815c06@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | Which sentence would one use and why:
(a) Execute all the limit orders in the book
(b) Execute all the limit orders on the book
It seems to me that (b) is the best choice. However, I've heard (a) a
lot.
The context is that of a market maker operating from a trading floor.
He has a "book" of buyers and sellers with each buyer/seller entering
an order on this book. Each order is waiting to be filled or executed.
|
Because this is a question about the jargon
of one specialized trade, its answer must be
sought in that jargon: the conventions of
general English should not be assumed to apply
(most obviously "on the book.")
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada) |
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alexV
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:03 am
Post subject: Re: Use "on" or "in"? |
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"Y" <knarty55@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:91aa520c.0411151305.1d815c06@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | Which sentence would one use and why:
(a) Execute all the limit orders in the book
(b) Execute all the limit orders on the book
It seems to me that (b) is the best choice. However, I've heard (a) a
lot.
The context is that of a market maker operating from a trading floor.
He has a "book" of buyers and sellers with each buyer/seller entering
an order on this book. Each order is waiting to be filled or executed.
It seems to me one would say the orders are [written] on the book not
[written] in it. In other words, the preposition ON implies the orders
are on the surface of the book. IN would imply inside-of the book and
that is not what one means in this context.
Dis/Agree, why?
|
I should say "in the book" would fit the situation better. On the book has a
more abstract sense like: the law in on the book. The latter does not mean
that the specific law is written in a particular book. It is just a known
law. |
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Stan Brown
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:00 am
Post subject: Re: Use "on" or "in"? |
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"Y" <knarty55@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.usage.english:
| Quote: | It seems to me one would say the orders are [written] on the book not
[written] in it. In other words, the preposition ON implies the orders
are on the surface of the book. IN would imply inside-of the book and
that is not what one means in this context.
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It seems exactly the opposite to me. To write "on" the book would be
to write on the cover; I would certainly write an order "in" the
book (meaning "on" a page inside the book).
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
"And if you're afraid of butter, which many people are nowa-
days, (long pause) you just put in cream." --Julia Child |
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Sean O'Leathlobhair
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Use "on" or "in"? |
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knarty55@yahoo.com (Y) wrote in message news:<91aa520c.0411151305.1d815c06@posting.google.com>...
| Quote: | Which sentence would one use and why:
(a) Execute all the limit orders in the book
(b) Execute all the limit orders on the book
It seems to me that (b) is the best choice. However, I've heard (a) a
lot.
The context is that of a market maker operating from a trading floor.
He has a "book" of buyers and sellers with each buyer/seller entering
an order on this book. Each order is waiting to be filled or executed.
It seems to me one would say the orders are [written] on the book not
[written] in it. In other words, the preposition ON implies the orders
are on the surface of the book. IN would imply inside-of the book and
that is not what one means in this context.
Dis/Agree, why?
|
I cannot help with this context but here are some other in / on uses
that may help.
Sometimes the choice of preposition is governed by logic, in some
cases a restricted range are logical, and in some cases it is
arbitrary.
Consider houses and streets. In the UK we say things such as "I live
in Main St" but I believe that "I live on Main St" is more common in
the US. Both of us could use logic to defend our usage. Us Brits
would point out that we live with the limits of the street, if you
pointed to the house on a map, it would be within the street. The
Americans could say that the house is on top of the street, they don't
live in a basement. We could probably agree that "under" and "over"
would not be appropriate for most houses. A restricted choice with
the final choice arbitrary.
Vehicles are also odd. I am not sure of US usage but here is British
usage. I ride IN a car and ON a bike which can be defended logically.
But I ride ON buses and trains and not IN them. For some odd reason,
we prefer to ride ON large public transport vehicles.
In your case, logic may restrict the choice but may not fully answer
it. Consider whether the book is usually closed on the shelf, in
which case "in" makes sense; or usually open at the current page, in
which case "on" may make more sense. They could also be some history
explaining the usage, the medium used today may not be the same as
when usage was set. If the order book were computerised, what would
you say? If you had already got used to one usage, would you change
your mind if it did not make sense for a computer order book?
So listen to the others and follow them.
Seán O'Leathlóbhair |
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Nigel Greenwood
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Use "on" or "in"? |
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knarty55@yahoo.com (Y) wrote in message news:<91aa520c.0411151305.1d815c06@posting.google.com>...
| Quote: | Which sentence would one use and why:
(a) Execute all the limit orders in the book
(b) Execute all the limit orders on the book
It seems to me that (b) is the best choice. However, I've heard (a) a
lot.
The context is that of a market maker operating from a trading floor.
He has a "book" of buyers and sellers with each buyer/seller entering
an order on this book. Each order is waiting to be filled or executed.
It seems to me one would say the orders are [written] on the book not
[written] in it. In other words, the preposition ON implies the orders
are on the surface of the book. IN would imply inside-of the book and
that is not what one means in this context.
|
I think "on" sounds more idiomatic. The choice of preposition has
nothing to do with its literal locative meaning. The analogy is with
"such & such a client is on our books", meaning registered with us:
this is a standard expression.
"All the limit orders in the book", OTOH, would be too reminiscent of
phrases like "he threw every rule in the book at me", meaning the
whole gamut -- every conceivable rule.
Nigel
ScriptMaster language resources (Persian/Turkish/Modern & Classical
Greek/Russian/Romanian/Esperanto/IPA):
http://www.elgin.free-online.co.uk |
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Peter T. Daniels
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Use "on" or "in"? |
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Sean O'Leathlobhair wrote:
| Quote: | Sometimes the choice of preposition is governed by logic, in some
cases a restricted range are logical, and in some cases it is
arbitrary.
Consider houses and streets. In the UK we say things such as "I live
in Main St"
|
I thought you call it High St?
| Quote: | but I believe that "I live on Main St" is more common in
|
St.
| Quote: | the US. Both of us could use logic to defend our usage. Us Brits
would point out that we live with the limits of the street, if you
pointed to the house on a map, it would be within the street. The
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Certainly not. You do not live within or in or on top of the street; you
live in a house built on a lot alongside a street.
| Quote: | Americans could say that the house is on top of the street, they don't
|
No we could not; vehicles, perhaps, are on top of a street. A house can
be on top of a hill.
| Quote: | live in a basement. We could probably agree that "under" and "over"
would not be appropriate for most houses. A restricted choice with
the final choice arbitrary.
|
"Al Capone's vault" was built out from the basement of the hotel under
the sidewalk ("pavement"), perhaps as far out as under the street.
| Quote: | Vehicles are also odd. I am not sure of US usage but here is British
usage. I ride IN a car and ON a bike which can be defended logically.
But I ride ON buses and trains and not IN them. For some odd reason,
we prefer to ride ON large public transport vehicles.
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No difference. But we ride _in_ the first car ("carriage").
--
Peter T. Daniels grammatim@att.net |
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Stan Brown
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Use "on" or "in"? |
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"Sean O'Leathlobhair" <jwlawler@yahoo.com> wrote in
alt.usage.english:
| Quote: | Consider houses and streets. In the UK we say things such as "I live
in Main St" but I believe that "I live on Main St" is more common in
the US.
|
Very much more common.
If an American says he lives in Main Street, he means that he lives,
as Anna Russell would say, "_IN_ it!" This unlikely state of affairs
could not last long.
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
"And if you're afraid of butter, which many people are nowa-
days, (long pause) you just put in cream." --Julia Child |
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Use "on" or "in"? |
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Stan Brown wrote:
| Quote: | "Sean O'Leathlobhair" <jwlawler@yahoo.com> wrote in
alt.usage.english:
Consider houses and streets. In the UK we say things such as "I live
in Main St" but I believe that "I live on Main St" is more common in
the US.
Very much more common.
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I've found many instances of the "in" usage in New York Times articles
from many decades ago (as recently as the 1950s I think), but that could
have been conscious Angloimitationism.
-- |
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Ian Noble
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Use "on" or "in"? |
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On 15 Nov 2004 13:05:39 -0800, knarty55@yahoo.com (Y) wrote:
| Quote: | Which sentence would one use and why:
(a) Execute all the limit orders in the book
(b) Execute all the limit orders on the book
It seems to me that (b) is the best choice. However, I've heard (a) a
lot.
The context is that of a market maker operating from a trading floor.
He has a "book" of buyers and sellers with each buyer/seller entering
an order on this book. Each order is waiting to be filled or executed.
It seems to me one would say the orders are [written] on the book not
[written] in it. In other words, the preposition ON implies the orders
are on the surface of the book. IN would imply inside-of the book and
that is not what one means in this context.
Dis/Agree, why?
Both/neither. In the usage I'm accustomed to, at least, one writes |
things *in* books; however, orders exist "*on* the book(s)".
Cheers - Ian |
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LEE Sau Dan
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Use "on" or "in"? |
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| Quote: | "Peter" == Peter T Daniels <grammatim@worldnet.att.net> writes:
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Peter> Certainly not. You do not live within or in or on top of
Peter> the street;
How about those homeless people who sleep alongside a street?
Peter> you live in a house built on a lot alongside a street.
It is possible to build things below ground. What would you say if
you live in such structures? (There are homeless people who find
shelter inside "pedestrian tunnels" ("subway" is in UK English). Do
they live below a street?)
--
Lee Sau Dan +Z05biGVm- ~{@nJX6X~}
E-mail: danlee@informatik.uni-freiburg.de
Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee |
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LEE Sau Dan
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Use "on" or "in"? |
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| Quote: | "Sean" == Sean O'Leathlobhair <jwlawler@yahoo.com> writes:
|
Sean> Consider houses and streets. In the UK we say things such
Sean> as "I live in Main St" but I believe that "I live on Main
Sean> St" is more common in the US. Both of us could use logic to
Sean> defend our usage. Us Brits would point out that we live
Sean> with the limits of the street, if you pointed to the house
Sean> on a map, it would be within the street. The Americans
Sean> could say that the house is on top of the street, they don't
Sean> live in a basement. We could probably agree that "under"
Sean> and "over" would not be appropriate for most houses. A
Sean> restricted choice with the final choice arbitrary.
Could it be due to slightly different semantics? E.g. US "street"
refers to the part of the ground where people and vehicle pass and no
buildings are built on. So, they use "on", like "on the floor". But
UK "street" includes not only that, but also the buildings, shops,
everything. So, they use "in", like "in the forest". Could it be
like that?
And what do you understand by the word "door"? The opening only? The
piece of wood/metal that closes the opening? An opening TOGETHER with
a piece of wood/metal that can close it? Or what?
Sean> Vehicles are also odd. I am not sure of US usage but here
Sean> is British usage. I ride IN a car and ON a bike which can
Sean> be defended logically. But I ride ON buses and trains and
Sean> not IN them. For some odd reason, we prefer to ride ON
Sean> large public transport vehicles.
These usages are quite idiomatic, i.e. can't be easily understood with
logic. Maybe, they have started off from different perspectives. "On
a bus" may have come from the perspectives of "on the floor", and "in
a car" from the analogy with "in a house (or cage?  )".
--
Lee Sau Dan +Z05biGVm- ~{@nJX6X~}
E-mail: danlee@informatik.uni-freiburg.de
Home page: http://www.informatik.uni-freiburg.de/~danlee |
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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:00 am
Post subject: Re: Use "on" or "in"? |
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Stan Brown wrote:
| Quote: | "Y" wrote:
It seems to me one would say the orders are [written] on the book not
[written] in it. In other words, the preposition ON implies the
orders are on the surface of the book. IN would imply inside-of the
book and that is not what one means in this context.
It seems exactly the opposite to me. To write "on" the book would be
to write on the cover; I would certainly write an order "in" the
book (meaning "on" a page inside the book).
|
It's true that one writes the order in the book, but then -- abracadabra --
it's on the books! English usage is quicker than the eye, and stuff like
that.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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Peter T. Daniels
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:01 am
Post subject: Re: Use "on" or "in"? |
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LEE Sau Dan wrote:
| Quote: |
"Peter" == Peter T Daniels <grammatim@worldnet.att.net> writes:
Peter> Certainly not. You do not live within or in or on top of
Peter> the street;
How about those homeless people who sleep alongside a street?
|
They sleep on the sidewalk.
| Quote: | Peter> you live in a house built on a lot alongside a street.
It is possible to build things below ground. What would you say if
you live in such structures? (There are homeless people who find
shelter inside "pedestrian tunnels" ("subway" is in UK English). Do
they live below a street?)
|
For a while, the authorities were very strict about not sleeping in
subway stations, but they may have relented more recently. Though there
are now additional "security" problems.
--
Peter T. Daniels grammatim@att.net |
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