| Author |
Message |
Dr. Jai Maharaj
Guest
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Jim Ward
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Internet(s) - the plural - dare I ask if W knew this mil |
|
|
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:09:30 GMT, usenet@mantra.com (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
wrote:
| Quote: | Forwarded message
Internet(s)--the plural!!--dare i ask if W. knew this
military project??
|
Didn't the Internet start off as a military project? The Pentagon is
always trying to build its own secure Internet, one problem is that
the real Internet moves too fast and the Pentagon is always being left
behind with old technology. The same thing would happen if the
Pentagon tried to make its own cars and trucks. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Charles Riggs
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Internet(s) - the plural - dare I ask if W knew this mil |
|
|
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 07:11:34 -0500, Jim Ward
<tomcatpolka@NyOaShPoAoM.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:09:30 GMT, usenet@mantra.com (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
wrote:
Forwarded message
Internet(s)--the plural!!--dare i ask if W. knew this
military project??
Didn't the Internet start off as a military project?
|
Yes, the Internet was derived from Arpanet, a military net.
| Quote: | The Pentagon is
always trying to build its own secure Internet, one problem is that
the real Internet moves too fast and the Pentagon is always being left
behind with old technology. The same thing would happen if the
Pentagon tried to make its own cars and trucks.
|
It is not the military's goal to provide itself with state-of-the-art
technology. It seeks reliable and proven technology most likely to win
out over the enemy. At that, the US military does a superlative job.
By the way, the military doesn't build anything, not internets,
weapons or trucks. Contractors do that, right, Skitt? Very often these
days the government has little to do even with the design process.
They leave that to the experts.
--
Charles Riggs
They are no accented letters in my email address
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RT
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Internet(s) - the plural - dare I ask if W knew this mil |
|
|
"Jim Ward" wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:09:30 GMT, usenet@mantra.com (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
wrote:
Forwarded message
Internet(s)--the plural!!--dare i ask if W. knew this
military project??
Didn't the Internet start off as a military project?
|
No. It started among the 'academia' circles. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
don groves
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Internet(s) - the plural - dare I ask if W knew this mil |
|
|
In article <9aubp0htha7l3v3f95m0sivbftkjgocv22@4ax.com>, Jim Ward
at tomcatpolka@NyOaShPoAoM.com exposited:
| Quote: | On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:09:30 GMT, usenet@mantra.com (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
wrote:
Forwarded message
Internet(s)--the plural!!--dare i ask if W. knew this
military project??
Didn't the Internet start off as a military project? The Pentagon is
always trying to build its own secure Internet, one problem is that
the real Internet moves too fast and the Pentagon is always being left
behind with old technology. The same thing would happen if the
Pentagon tried to make its own cars and trucks.
|
http://www.zakon.org/robert/internet/timeline/
--
dg (domain=ccwebster) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Skitt
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:00 am
Post subject: Re: Internet(s) - the plural - dare I ask if W knew this mil |
|
|
Charles Riggs wrote:
| Quote: | Jim Ward wrote:
(Dr. Jai Maharaj) wrote:
Forwarded message
Internet(s)--the plural!!--dare i ask if W. knew this
military project??
Didn't the Internet start off as a military project?
Yes, the Internet was derived from Arpanet, a military net.
The Pentagon is
always trying to build its own secure Internet, one problem is that
the real Internet moves too fast and the Pentagon is always being
left behind with old technology. The same thing would happen if the
Pentagon tried to make its own cars and trucks.
It is not the military's goal to provide itself with state-of-the-art
technology. It seeks reliable and proven technology most likely to win
out over the enemy. At that, the US military does a superlative job.
By the way, the military doesn't build anything, not internets,
weapons or trucks. Contractors do that, right, Skitt? Very often these
days the government has little to do even with the design process.
They leave that to the experts.
|
It used to be that the design process and the manufacturing were done by the
contractors. In one recent venture, the Navy took the design responsibility
away from the contractor that had provided it for all the previous
generations of that product and gave it to a university in Texas as a
research project. That way it was free, you see. Now the contractor has to
try to make the quite botched design workable. I'm glad that I retired from
that contractor in time (having been intimately involved in the previous
generations of that product, I already knew what the outcome was going to
be).
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jim Ward
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:00 am
Post subject: Re: Internet(s) - the plural - dare I ask if W knew this mil |
|
|
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 10:04:42 -0800, don groves <dgroves@domain.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | http://www.zakon.org/robert/internet/timeline/
|
Ahh! So Teddy Kennedy built the Internet! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bryan Hackney
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:01 am
Post subject: Re: Internet(s) - the plural - dare I ask if W knew this mil |
|
|
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
"Internet" is a fallacy. Internets (plural) is technically correct, for reasons I
explained when it happened. Whether it was a mispeak I don't know (it probably was),
but GW Bush made a mistake (perhaps) that ended up being technically correct.
This fact limited the chortling from the opposition. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DE781
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:00 am
Post subject: Re: Internet(s) - the plural - dare I ask if W knew this mil |
|
|
Jahaari:
| Quote: | Forwarded message
Internet(s)--the plural!!--dare i ask if W. knew this
military project??
http://tinyurl.com/6p5yl
|
Actually an INTERESTING article from Jahaari, even though it's like totally
mondoliciously OT. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jordan Abel
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:00 am
Post subject: Re: Internet(s) - the plural - dare I ask if W knew this mil |
|
|
RT wrote:
| Quote: | "Jim Ward" wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:09:30 GMT, usenet@mantra.com (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
wrote:
Forwarded message
Internet(s)--the plural!!--dare i ask if W. knew this
military project??
Didn't the Internet start off as a military project?
No. It started among the 'academia' circles.
|
You're thinking of the world wide web. [i.e. http/html]. "the
Internet" [including TCP/IP and I forget which were the original high-level
protocols] was developed by ARPA. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Charles Riggs
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Internet(s) - the plural - dare I ask if W knew this mil |
|
|
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 12:22:46 -0800, "Skitt" <skitt99@comcast.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | Charles Riggs wrote:
By the way, the military doesn't build anything, not internets,
weapons or trucks. Contractors do that, right, Skitt? Very often these
days the government has little to do even with the design process.
They leave that to the experts.
It used to be that the design process and the manufacturing were done by the
contractors. In one recent venture, the Navy took the design responsibility
away from the contractor that had provided it for all the previous
generations of that product and gave it to a university in Texas as a
research project. That way it was free, you see. Now the contractor has to
try to make the quite botched design workable. I'm glad that I retired from
that contractor in time (having been intimately involved in the previous
generations of that product, I already knew what the outcome was going to
be).
|
A trend that I saw while working for the Navy was to sometimes buy
commercial equipment -- communications gear, for example -- as is,
when something suitable was already on the market. Buying items that
are produced in quantity can save the taxpayer a great deal of money,
so I was all for it. One has to be careful, of course, but let no-one
tell you the equipment the government buys all depends on how good the
specification and statement of work are. Hogwash. You don't get
quality goods from a shoddy contractor no matter how well the contract
is written, as you, Skitt, will agree I am sure. Conversely, it would
be difficult to buy crap from Collins Radio, no matter how poor the
paperwork. Trouble was, when you did and then forced them to jump
through the testing hoops laid on by government 04 people, the
products were unreasonably expensive. O4 people are much like mules,
so a lot of expensive frills were often added.
At the other extreme, I played a small part in an experiment where
Navy civilians and military people working together designed a ship
from ground up, then contracted out its construction. NAVSEC was
heavily involved in that project. I don't think the experiment was
ever repeated again. I'm not knocking the expertise of the engineers
and others at the Naval Ship and Engineering Center, then located in
Greater Laurel, I'm saying we weren't set up to do that sort of work.
--
Charles Riggs
They are no accented letters in my email address |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Evan Kirshenbaum
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Internet(s) - the plural - dare I ask if W knew this mil |
|
|
Jordan Abel <jmabel@purdue.edu> writes:
| Quote: | RT wrote:
"Jim Ward" wrote:
Internet(s)--the plural!!--dare i ask if W. knew this military
project??
Didn't the Internet start off as a military project?
No. It started among the 'academia' circles.
You're thinking of the world wide web. [i.e. http/html]. "the
Internet" [including TCP/IP and I forget which were the original
high-level protocols] was developed by ARPA.
|
DARPA paid the bills and coordinated the design, but the actual
development was at BBN and UCLA and other universities and research
institutions. So "a military project", but not developed by them.
Don Groves' link:
http://www.zakon.org/robert/internet/timeline/
provides a pretty good history.
As for the military building "its own Internet", that first happened
in 1983, when MILNET was split off of the ARPANET (taking over half
the nodes with it).
Of course, plural "internets" is a long-established usage. When I
joined HP in 1989, it had its own internet containing (at least)
hundreds of subnets and probably tens of thousands of machines. It
was not part of the global Internet. That is, there were a few
machines (called "open subnet" machines) that were on both, and from
those machines you could see either network, but I don't believe any
traffic was routed from one internet to the other. (E-mail forwarding
ran on the open subnet machines.)
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Theories are not matters of fact,
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |they are derived from observing
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |fact. If you don't have data, you
|don't get good theories. You get
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |theology instead.
(650)857-7572 | --John Lawler
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chris Malcolm
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Internet(s) - the plural - dare I ask if W knew this mil |
|
|
Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Jordan Abel <jmabel@purdue.edu> writes:
RT wrote:
"Jim Ward" wrote:
Internet(s)--the plural!!--dare i ask if W. knew this military
project??
Didn't the Internet start off as a military project?
No. It started among the 'academia' circles.
You're thinking of the world wide web. [i.e. http/html]. "the
Internet" [including TCP/IP and I forget which were the original
high-level protocols] was developed by ARPA.
DARPA paid the bills and coordinated the design, but the actual
development was at BBN and UCLA and other universities and research
institutions. So "a military project", but not developed by them.
Don Groves' link:
http://www.zakon.org/robert/internet/timeline/
provides a pretty good history.
|
When the internet included Britain it joined up to the existing
UK JANET (Joint Academic NETwork) which had always been academic.
--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steve Hayes
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 6:06 am
Post subject: Re: Internet(s) - the plural - dare I ask if W knew this mil |
|
|
On 19 Nov 2004 11:22:30 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | When the internet included Britain it joined up to the existing
UK JANET (Joint Academic NETwork) which had always been academic.
|
Which had backwards addresses.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark Brader
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 6:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Internet(s) - the plural - dare I ask if W knew this mil |
|
|
Chris Malcolm:
| Quote: | When the internet included Britain it joined up to the existing
UK JANET (Joint Academic NETwork) which had always been academic.
|
Steve Hayes:
| Quote: | Which had backwards addresses.
|
Forwards, rather. It's Internet addresses, like postal addresses, that
are backwards.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Don't try this at work."
msb@vex.net -- Dennis Ritchie |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in