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Christopher Green
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:01 am
Post subject: Re: Ax instead of Ask |
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On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 03:26:37 GMT, "James F. Chumbley"
<jamesfchumbley@att.net> wrote:
| Quote: | The pronunciation of the word "ask" as "ax" was standard in the form of
fossil English spoken by my Grandmother. She was born in roughly 1885 and
was "raised," not reared, in the American South in the Ozark Plateau, a
region covering the western portions of Missouri and Arkansas. She lived in
Arkansas.
As children of one of her daughters, who spoke and wrote perfect
English, we were horrified to hear Grandmother say "ax." I would give
everything I own today to talk again with her for one single day.
Jim Chumbley
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"Ax" for "ask" is still current in the American South and among
blacks, as well as in a few dialects in England, and in Jamaica and
the Bahamas. It is so prominent in these dialects that they are
sometimes called "axian".
My grandfather, who grew up around Oneonta, Alabama and Maryville,
Tennessee, never used "ax" for "ask", even when he was deliberately
talking cornpone to send Grandmother into a conniption.
--
Chris Green
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Raymond S. Wise
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:01 am
Post subject: Re: Ax instead of Ask |
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"James F. Chumbley" <jamesfchumbley@att.net> wrote in message
news:NlVld.906551$Gx4.659156@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
| Quote: | The pronunciation of the word "ask" as "ax" was standard in the form
of
fossil English spoken by my Grandmother. She was born in roughly 1885 and
was "raised," not reared, in the American South in the Ozark Plateau, a
region covering the western portions of Missouri and Arkansas. She lived
in
Arkansas.
|
I was raised, not "reared," in Central Illinois.
| Quote: | As children of one of her daughters, who spoke and wrote perfect
English, we were horrified to hear Grandmother say "ax." I would give
everything I own today to talk again with her for one single day.
Jim Chumbley
"Polly" <pdo@uwm-dot-edu.no-spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:zOSdneGC77hz9gjcRVn_vQ@giganews.com...
How is is possible to mispronounce such a simple word?
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Several examples have been given of English words in which two sounds were
switched, but no one has as yet mentioned the technical term for it:
"metathesis."
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com |
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Metal56
Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:30 am
Post subject: Re: Ax instead of Ask |
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| Polly wrote: | | How is is possible to mispronounce such a simple word? |
It isn't impossible. How about in the past form:
"ast"
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Phil C.
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Ax instead of Ask |
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:37:29 -0800, "Carmen L. Abruzzi"
<carmenlabruzzi@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | James F. Chumbley wrote:
"Carmen L. Abruzzi" <carmenlabruzzi@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2vnns5F2m1fjqU1@uni-berlin.de...
Yes. Although the original form *was* "ax", it was a tragic incident
during the reign of King Henry Two that led to the mangled "ask"
pronunciation. Some of Henry's knights came to him with their uncertainty
about the loyalty of Henry's recent choice for Archbishop of Canterbury.
"We don't know if he supports your majesty or the Pope", they said. The
king replied, "well, why don't you just ax him?".
After that, the king declared that the word should theretofore be "ask".
I am astounded at this posting. Henry II spoke only French.
Nonsense. Haven't you seen _The Lion in Winter_?
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And not many people know that Stalin spoke English. When he came up
against a problem he couldn't solve, he told one of his underlings to
pick Trotsky's brains. And the rest is history.
--
Phil C. |
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Lady Chatterly
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:00 am
Post subject: Re: Ax instead of Ask |
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In article <b36cp0tmpgfga9e7ivika1kv5o3goq11c7@4ax.com> Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:05:34 -0600, pdo@uwm-dot-edu.no-spam.invalid (Polly)
wrote:
How is is possible to mispronounce such a simple word?
[My second reply to this question.]
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To err is human; to mimic, requires a bot.
| Quote: | Those who pronounce "ask" as "aks" (ax) are simply copying the way their
friends, etc. pronounce the word.
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Okay.
| Quote: | Let's not forget that a person's first language is learnt in spoken form
long before the person learns the artificial skills of reading and writing.
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A pessimist expects nothing on a silver platter except tarnish.
--
Lady Chatterly
"You know what the REALLY sad thing is though? Lady C has about twice
as much personality as most of my obsessed pathetics, like Meat->Tard
for example. It's just 8 shades of sad when a piece of fucking code
has got more creativity than most of the deficients over in lAHMe."
-- Onideus Mad Hatter |
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Carmen L. Abruzzi
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Ax instead of Ask |
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Raymond S. Wise wrote:
| Quote: | [Post rearranged to put messages in chronological order]
"James F. Chumbley" <jamesfchumbley@att.net> wrote in message
news:b6Vld.20749$7i4.13563@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
"Carmen L. Abruzzi" <carmenlabruzzi@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2vnns5F2m1fjqU1@uni-berlin.de...
George Hardy wrote:
Christopher Green <cj.green@att.net> wrote in message
news:<6e1bp0hstg52rn4e1cbfupt4v6rlnbjdmd@4ax.com>...
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:05:34 -0600, pdo@uwm-dot-edu.no-spam.invalid
(Polly) wrote:
How is is possible to mispronounce such a simple word?
Not a mispronunciation. It's an alternative with a history going back
at least as far as Chaucer.
Be that as it may, this mispronunciation is a clear
indication of a poor upbringing. It should be avoided,
even it Chaucer used it.
Yes. Although the original form *was* "ax", it was a tragic incident
during the reign of King Henry Two that led to the mangled "ask"
pronunciation. Some of Henry's knights came to him with their
uncertainty
about the loyalty of Henry's recent choice for Archbishop of Canterbury.
"We don't know if he supports your majesty or the Pope", they said. The
king replied, "well, why don't you just ax him?".
After that, the king declared that the word should theretofore be "ask".
I am astounded at this posting. Henry II spoke only French.
*Ahem!* Carmen's post was a joke in the form of a "just so" story. "Aks" for
"ask" goes back at least as far as Old English "ācsian." "Āscian" was
another variant in Old English (I've used a circumflex here instead of a
macron). I doubt that anyone can say with certainty which version actually
came first. Even if "āscian" happened to be the first version attested in
print, that would not prove that it was the first version used in speech.
AHDIER says it comes from Proto-Germanic "aiskon" from PIE |
"ais-", "to wish, desire" with the suffix "-sk-", so it
looks like the [sk] version does have ultimate priority. Of
course, there's no way of knowing how the first speakers of
*English* pronounced the word. |
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George Hardy
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Ax instead of Ask |
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"Carmen L. Abruzzi" <carmenlabruzzi@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<2vnns5F2m1fjqU1@uni-berlin.de>...
| Quote: | Yes. Although the original form *was* "ax", it was a tragic
incident during the reign of King Henry Two that led to the
mangled "ask" pronunciation. Some of Henry's knights came
to him with their uncertainty about the loyalty of Henry's
recent choice for Archbishop of Canterbury. "We don't know
if he supports your majesty or the Pope", they said. The
king replied, "well, why don't you just ax him?".
After that, the king declared that the word should
theretofore be "ask".
|
A great story, but I don't believe a word of it.
GFH |
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Robert Lieblich
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Ax instead of Ask |
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George Hardy wrote:
| Quote: |
"Carmen L. Abruzzi" <carmenlabruzzi@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<2vnns5F2m1fjqU1@uni-berlin.de>...
Yes. Although the original form *was* "ax", it was a tragic
incident during the reign of King Henry Two that led to the
mangled "ask" pronunciation. Some of Henry's knights came
to him with their uncertainty about the loyalty of Henry's
recent choice for Archbishop of Canterbury. "We don't know
if he supports your majesty or the Pope", they said. The
king replied, "well, why don't you just ax him?".
After that, the king declared that the word should
theretofore be "ask".
A great story, but I don't believe a word of it.
|
And it should be "thenceforth," not "theretofore."
--
Bob Lieblich
Picker of nits |
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Joanne Marinelli
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Ax instead of Ask |
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"Robert Lieblich" <Robert.Lieblich@Verizon.net> wrote in message
news:419CC031.B3BE99C1@Verizon.net...
| Quote: | George Hardy wrote:
"Carmen L. Abruzzi" <carmenlabruzzi@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<2vnns5F2m1fjqU1@uni-berlin.de>...
Yes. Although the original form *was* "ax", it was a tragic
incident during the reign of King Henry Two that led to the
mangled "ask" pronunciation. Some of Henry's knights came
to him with their uncertainty about the loyalty of Henry's
recent choice for Archbishop of Canterbury. "We don't know
if he supports your majesty or the Pope", they said. The
king replied, "well, why don't you just ax him?".
After that, the king declared that the word should
theretofore be "ask".
A great story, but I don't believe a word of it.
And it should be "thenceforth," not "theretofore."
--
Bob Lieblich
Picker of nits
|
Well well well. Welcome back. I raised a great objection to your announced
departure you know, but haven't had much time myself to continue on as an
AEU bug a boo. I am over-extended and engaged to be married to a lovable
stroke victim, but I've lurked around the last few days in stuff and
nonsense such as this.
It is the 21st century, but with all the crackles and shackles of this
thread one would think monarchy and liaison had all the fizz and passion of
taxidermy. Who the hell cares if the Prince of Wales wants the trot of
well-used experience. Osama bin Laden has what? Four wives he can thankfully
afford due to Saudi oil?
Joanne
who thinks the British royal family is useless expensive rot |
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Joanne Marinelli
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Ax instead of Ask |
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"Joanne Marinelli" <Jozanny@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MJjnd.934214$Gx4.10526@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
| Quote: |
"Robert Lieblich" <Robert.Lieblich@Verizon.net> wrote in message
news:419CC031.B3BE99C1@Verizon.net...
George Hardy wrote:
"Carmen L. Abruzzi" <carmenlabruzzi@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<2vnns5F2m1fjqU1@uni-berlin.de>...
Yes. Although the original form *was* "ax", it was a tragic
incident during the reign of King Henry Two that led to the
mangled "ask" pronunciation. Some of Henry's knights came
to him with their uncertainty about the loyalty of Henry's
recent choice for Archbishop of Canterbury. "We don't know
if he supports your majesty or the Pope", they said. The
king replied, "well, why don't you just ax him?".
After that, the king declared that the word should
theretofore be "ask".
A great story, but I don't believe a word of it.
And it should be "thenceforth," not "theretofore."
--
Bob Lieblich
Picker of nits
Well well well. Welcome back. I raised a great objection to your announced
departure you know, but haven't had much time myself to continue on as an
AEU bug a boo. I am over-extended and engaged to be married to a lovable
stroke victim, but I've lurked around the last few days in stuff and
nonsense such as this.
It is the 21st century, but with all the crackles and shackles of this
thread one would think monarchy and liaison had all the fizz and passion
of
taxidermy. Who the hell cares if the Prince of Wales wants the trot of
well-used experience. Osama bin Laden has what? Four wives he can
thankfully
afford due to Saudi oil?
Joanne
who thinks the British royal family is useless expensive rot
Shit. Wrong thread, sorry |
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