| Author |
Message |
Masa
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:05 pm
Post subject: Flatbush |
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"Going to send me out to Flatbush, huh? So I won't interfere!"
(Stranger in a Strange Land, R.A.Heinlein)
I wonder about "Flatbush".
I won't say about the context of the sentence because it's too complex.
But anyway someone in power is in a position to put the other out to
Flatbush. Flatbush must be just symbolic here. It must suggest an undesirable
place to many readers.
But I've got no idea how uwelcome that place is to go to, Flatbush or by being
associated from that name Flatbush.
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Flatbush |
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Masa wrote:
| Quote: | "Going to send me out to Flatbush, huh? So I won't interfere!"
(Stranger in a Strange Land, R.A.Heinlein)
I wonder about "Flatbush".
|
Wonder no more, Masa, for Flatbush is my Home Town. It is the Heart of
Brooklyn (Fourth Largest City in America).
| Quote: | I won't say about the context of the sentence because it's too complex.
|
IYSSS.
| Quote: | But anyway someone in power is in a position to put the other out to
Flatbush. Flatbush must be just symbolic here. It must suggest an undesirable
place to many readers.
But I've got no idea how uwelcome that place is to go to, Flatbush or by being
associated from that name Flatbush.
|
I never completed _Stranger in a Strange Land_, and the one time I tried
to read it was long ago. My guess is that Flatbush here is used to suggest
remoteness and small-townishness, though in a big-city context. At the
time Heinlein was writing this (1961?), Flatbush was a quiet, fairly
prosperous, quasi-suburban place an hour's travel from "the city" by
subway.
--
Steny '08! |
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R H Draney
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Flatbush |
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Masa filted:
| Quote: |
"Going to send me out to Flatbush, huh? So I won't interfere!"
(Stranger in a Strange Land, R.A.Heinlein)
I wonder about "Flatbush".
I won't say about the context of the sentence because it's too complex.
But anyway someone in power is in a position to put the other out to
Flatbush. Flatbush must be just symbolic here. It must suggest an undesirable
place to many readers.
But I've got no idea how uwelcome that place is to go to, Flatbush or by being
associated from that name Flatbush.
|
I don't have any experience with Flatbush myself, but some places *are* symbolic
that way: Coventry and Thule, for two...around here one often speaks of being
sent to Florence, but that's because it's the home of the State Prison....r
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Don Phillipson
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:06 am
Post subject: Re: Flatbush |
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"Masa" <autosu@infoseek.jp> wrote in message
news:86daf69f.0411121033.32c4c4a0@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | "Going to send me out to Flatbush, huh? So I won't interfere!"
(Stranger in a Strange Land, R.A.Heinlein)
I wonder about "Flatbush".
|
Flatbush is a remote suburb of Brooklyn.
Its significance here is probably remoteness
(distance). New Yorkers would suppose
everybody knew this.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada) |
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Brian Wickham
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:06 am
Post subject: Re: Flatbush |
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On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:46:34 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
<d.phillipson@ttrryytteell.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "Masa" <autosu@infoseek.jp> wrote in message
news:86daf69f.0411121033.32c4c4a0@posting.google.com...
"Going to send me out to Flatbush, huh? So I won't interfere!"
(Stranger in a Strange Land, R.A.Heinlein)
I wonder about "Flatbush".
Flatbush is a remote suburb of Brooklyn.
Its significance here is probably remoteness
(distance). New Yorkers would suppose
everybody knew this.
|
I'm a New Yorker and I don't find this to be a common locution,
although I do know what Heinlein meant. The proper term in NY police
argot would be "Staten Island", as in "You'll be pounding a beat in
Staten Island".
Brian |
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Don Aitken
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:06 am
Post subject: Re: Flatbush |
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On 12 Nov 2004 10:41:14 -0800, R H Draney <dadoctah@spamcop.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | Masa filted:
"Going to send me out to Flatbush, huh? So I won't interfere!"
(Stranger in a Strange Land, R.A.Heinlein)
I wonder about "Flatbush".
I won't say about the context of the sentence because it's too complex.
But anyway someone in power is in a position to put the other out to
Flatbush. Flatbush must be just symbolic here. It must suggest an undesirable
place to many readers.
But I've got no idea how uwelcome that place is to go to, Flatbush or by being
associated from that name Flatbush.
I don't have any experience with Flatbush myself, but some places *are* symbolic
that way: Coventry and Thule, for two...around here one often speaks of being
sent to Florence, but that's because it's the home of the State Prison....r
|
I think most areas have a place like that. When my mother was really
exasperated she would say "Go to Siddick!" Siddick is a small mining
village a few miles from where she was brought up. When I asked her,
she had no idea what was so bad about Siddick, and had never actually
been there. It was just something everyone in her family said. It
probably helps that it *sounds* unattractive.
--
Don Aitken
Mail to the addresses given in the headers is no longer being
read. To mail me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com". |
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:06 am
Post subject: Re: Flatbush |
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Don Aitken wrote:
| Quote: | On 12 Nov 2004 10:41:14 -0800, R H Draney <dadoctah@spamcop.net
wrote:
Masa filted:
"Going to send me out to Flatbush, huh? So I won't interfere!"
(Stranger in a Strange Land, R.A.Heinlein)
I wonder about "Flatbush".
I won't say about the context of the sentence because it's too complex.
But anyway someone in power is in a position to put the other out to
Flatbush. Flatbush must be just symbolic here. It must suggest an undesirable
place to many readers.
But I've got no idea how uwelcome that place is to go to, Flatbush or by being
associated from that name Flatbush.
I don't have any experience with Flatbush myself, but some places *are* symbolic
that way: Coventry and Thule, for two...around here one often speaks of being
sent to Florence, but that's because it's the home of the State Prison....r
I think most areas have a place like that. When my mother was really
exasperated she would say "Go to Siddick!" Siddick is a small mining
village a few miles from where she was brought up. When I asked her,
she had no idea what was so bad about Siddick, and had never actually
been there. It was just something everyone in her family said. It
probably helps that it *sounds* unattractive.
|
But Flatbush was (in 1961) regarded as a very attractive place.
--
Steny '08! |
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Jim Ward
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Flatbush |
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On 13 Nov 2004 01:27:20 GMT, Areff <me@privacy.net> wrote:
| Quote: | But Flatbush was (in 1961) regarded as a very attractive place.
|
They even had Lords at one time:
http://imdb.com/title/tt0071772/
(Henry Winkler's breakout role) |
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Mark Barratt
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:00 am
Post subject: Re: Flatbush |
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Brian Wickham wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:46:34 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
d.phillipson@ttrryytteell.com> wrote:
"Masa" <autosu@infoseek.jp> wrote in message
news:86daf69f.0411121033.32c4c4a0@posting.google.com...
"Going to send me out to Flatbush, huh? So I won't
interfere!" >> (Stranger in a Strange Land, R.A.Heinlein)
I wonder about "Flatbush".
Flatbush is a remote suburb of Brooklyn.
Its significance here is probably remoteness
(distance). New Yorkers would suppose
everybody knew this.
I'm a New Yorker and I don't find this to be a common locution,
although I do know what Heinlein meant. The proper term in NY
police argot would be "Staten Island", as in "You'll be
pounding a beat in Staten Island".
|
But Heinlein wasn't a New Yorker. He was born and grew up in
Missouri, and lived in California and Colorado.
As a non-American, I would have guessed that Flatbush was a
one-horse town somewhere in the west, not a NYC neighbourhood.
Maybe it is, too...
Hmm. Mapquest only finds two Flatbushes in the entire USA,
surprisingly. The other one is also in New York state, halfway
between NYC and Albany.
It still sounds like nowheresville, though.
--
Mark Barratt
Budapest |
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:00 am
Post subject: Re: Flatbush |
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Mark Barratt wrote:
| Quote: | But Heinlein wasn't a New Yorker. He was born and grew up in
Missouri, and lived in California and Colorado.
|
According to the "RAH FAQ", he lived briefly in New York City around 1930.
Not only that, but Heinlein's wife Virginia, who was married to Heinlein
from 1948 till his death in 1988, was born in Brooklyn (FLCIA) in 1916.
The biographical details in the RAH FAQ don't give any information on
where she lived prior to 1942 (when she lived in Philadelphia, apparently
coinciding with her service in the WAVES. One might conclude that prior
to 1942 she lived in New York City -- perhaps Brooklyn. Perhaps there's
other stuff that's Googleable.
If Virginia Heinlein was a Brooklynite, she might have been a Flatbush
resident, or would at least be very familiar with Flatbush (The Heart of
Brooklyn). She might've told Bob a thing or two about it.
| Quote: | As a non-American, I would have guessed that Flatbush was a
one-horse town somewhere in the west, not a NYC neighbourhood.
|
Calling Flatbush "a [sic] NYC [sic] neighbourhood [sic]" is not entirely
inaccurate, but it seems sort of wrong anyway. I'd describe it as a
Brooklyn neighborhood (unless I was speaking about its earlier history as
a town in Kings County). In actuality it contains lots of neighborhoods,
but it's a neighborhood in a broader sense.
| Quote: | It still sounds like nowheresville, though.
|
I don't see why. It's just an Anglicization of the Dutch _Vlacke Bos_,
you know (ObJJ: pre-reform spelling).
--
Steny '08! |
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:00 am
Post subject: Re: Flatbush |
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Areff wrote:
| Quote: | Not only that, but Heinlein's wife Virginia, who was married to Heinlein
from 1948 till his death in 1988, was born in Brooklyn (FLCIA) in 1916.
The biographical details in the RAH FAQ don't give any information on
where she lived prior to 1942 (when she lived in Philadelphia, apparently
coinciding with her service in the WAVES. One might conclude that prior
to 1942 she lived in New York City -- perhaps Brooklyn. Perhaps there's
other stuff that's Googleable.
|
Some other websites confirm that Virginia Gerstenfeld Heinlein was raised
in Brooklyn (Fourth Largest City in America). She was the daughter of a
"Brooklyn dentist". If he practiced dentistry in Brooklyn, I wonder if he
did so in The Clock Building (aka The Williamsburgh [sic] Savings Bank
Tower) (Tallest Building in Brooklyn), which was built during Virginia's
childhood and which was long known for its tendency to house dentists and
the like.
--
Steny '08! |
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Don Aitken
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:00 am
Post subject: Re: Flatbush |
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On 14 Nov 2004 04:03:25 GMT, Areff <me@privacy.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Areff wrote:
Not only that, but Heinlein's wife Virginia, who was married to Heinlein
from 1948 till his death in 1988, was born in Brooklyn (FLCIA) in 1916.
The biographical details in the RAH FAQ don't give any information on
where she lived prior to 1942 (when she lived in Philadelphia, apparently
coinciding with her service in the WAVES. One might conclude that prior
to 1942 she lived in New York City -- perhaps Brooklyn. Perhaps there's
other stuff that's Googleable.
Some other websites confirm that Virginia Gerstenfeld Heinlein was raised
in Brooklyn (Fourth Largest City in America). She was the daughter of a
"Brooklyn dentist". If he practiced dentistry in Brooklyn, I wonder if he
did so in The Clock Building (aka The Williamsburgh [sic] Savings Bank
Tower) (Tallest Building in Brooklyn), which was built during Virginia's
childhood and which was long known for its tendency to house dentists and
the like.
|
Until quite recently we could have asked her; she was a regular
contributor to alt.fan.heinlein until very shortly before her death. I
have posted a query there in case anyone has any relevant ideas.
--
Don Aitken
Mail to the addresses given in the headers is no longer being
read. To mail me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com". |
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Michael Hamm
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:34 am
Post subject: Re: Flatbush |
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Today, Areff <me@privacy.net> abed:
| Quote: | Calling Flatbush "a [sic] NYC [sic] neighbourhood [sic]" is not entirely
inaccurate, but it seems sort of wrong anyway. I'd describe it as a
Brooklyn neighborhood (unless I was speaking about its earlier history
as a town in Kings County). In actuality it contains lots of
neighborhoods, but it's a neighborhood in a broader sense.
|
For some (or no) reason, orthodox Jews from south Brooklyn like to say
that they're from Borough Park or from Flatbush (except those from the
Kensington area, who like to say that they're from Ditmas Park, and those
from Bensonhurst, who are too old to know better and say that they're from
bensonhurst (or Mapleton Park). Anyway, where was I? Ah, right, most of
them like to say that they're from Borough Bpark or that they're from
Flatbush), so "Flatbush" has extended its boundaries, in the speech of
orthodox Jews, south to Sheepshead Bay, east to about East 40th, and west
to MacDonald.
Michael Hamm
AM, Math, Wash. U. St. Louis
msh210@math.wustl.edu Standard disclaimers:
http://math.wustl.edu/~msh210/ ... legal.html |
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