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Jim Lyons
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:14 pm
Post subject: Compound Verb Help Please |
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Would someone be kind enough to tell me if it would, in the interest
of brevity, be OK to write sentence 1 as sentence 2:
Sentence 1: "The colonists would have believed and evidently did
believe that ....."
Sentence 2: "The colonists would have and evidently did believe that
......"
Thanks very much for the help. The instruction you provide here have
been of great value to me.
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CyberCypher
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Compound Verb Help Please |
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Jim Lyons wrote on 12 Nov 2004:
| Quote: | Would someone be kind enough to tell me if it would, in the interest
of brevity, be OK to write sentence 1 as sentence 2:
Sentence 1: "The colonists would have believed and evidently did
believe that ....."
Sentence 2: "The colonists would have and evidently did believe that
....."
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I don't see why you wouldn't want to rewrite it simply as "The
colonists evidently believed that ..." Why stick in the "would have
believed" (which, IMHO you would have to give in full) if they
"evidently did believe"? It's verbose.
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet. |
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Adrian Bailey
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Compound Verb Help Please |
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"Jim Lyons" <lyons432> wrote in message
news:svg9p01qj5ju6e3ja9rjlth6jn7c44ic05@4ax.com...
| Quote: | Would someone be kind enough to tell me if it would, in the interest
of brevity, be OK to write sentence 1 as sentence 2:
Sentence 1: "The colonists would have believed and evidently did
believe that ....."
Sentence 2: "The colonists would have and evidently did believe that
....."
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No.
Adrian
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Mark Brader
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:06 am
Post subject: Re: Compound Verb Help Please |
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Jim Lyons writes:
| Quote: | Would someone be kind enough to tell me if it would, in the interest
of brevity, be OK to write sentence 1 as sentence 2:
Sentence 1: "The colonists would have believed and evidently did
believe that ....."
Sentence 2: "The colonists would have and evidently did believe that
....."
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No. But you can say "would have believed, and evidently did, that".
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | Any company large enough to have a research lab
msb@vex.net | is large enough not to listen to it. --Alan Kay |
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Jim Lyons
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Compound Verb Help Please |
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On 12 Nov 2004 15:22:27 GMT, CyberCypher
<cybercypher@19-16-25-13-01-03.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Jim Lyons wrote on 12 Nov 2004:
Would someone be kind enough to tell me if it would, in the interest
of brevity, be OK to write sentence 1 as sentence 2:
Sentence 1: "The colonists would have believed and evidently did
believe that ....."
Sentence 2: "The colonists would have and evidently did believe that
....."
I don't see why you wouldn't want to rewrite it simply as "The
colonists evidently believed that ..." Why stick in the "would have
believed" (which, IMHO you would have to give in full) if they
"evidently did believe"? It's verbose.
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Thanks for the responses. Actually, I should have mentioned that I was
wording Sentence 1 for emphasis, because the reason the colonists
believed what they did has never been clear. So the sentence would be
preceded by something like, "If the colonists had seen ships coming
into the harbor, they would have believed and evidently did believe
--or just "evidently dfd," as Mark suggested -- that the British were
attacking by sea."
Does this make the sentence acceptable or more acceptable now?
Jim
Jim |
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John Lawler
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Compound Verb Help Please |
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Mark Brader <msb@vex.net> writes:
| Quote: | Jim Lyons writes:
Would someone be kind enough to tell me if it would, in the interest
of brevity, be OK to write sentence 1 as sentence 2:
Sentence 1: "The colonists would have believed and evidently did
believe that ....."
Sentence 2: "The colonists would have and evidently did believe that
....."
No. But you can say "would have believed, and evidently did, that".
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Yes, surprisingly. I don't quite understand why this one works while
Sentence 2 doesn't. But it's certainly grammatical, while Sentence 2 isn't.
Note that while commas are optional in Sentence 1, some punctuation to set
the second phrase off is absolutely necessary in Mark's sentence. Though I
think this is a place where dashes would work even better:
The colonists would have believed -- and evidently did -- that ...
-John Lawler http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler U of Michigan Linguistics
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!), but: "That's funny ..."
-- Isaac Asimov (1920-1992) |
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CyberCypher
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Compound Verb Help Please |
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Jim Lyons wrote on 13 Nov 2004:
| Quote: | On 12 Nov 2004 15:22:27 GMT, CyberCypher
cybercypher@19-16-25-13-01-03.com> wrote:
Jim Lyons wrote on 12 Nov 2004:
Would someone be kind enough to tell me if it would, in the
interest of brevity, be OK to write sentence 1 as sentence 2:
Sentence 1: "The colonists would have believed and evidently did
believe that ....."
Sentence 2: "The colonists would have and evidently did believe
that ....."
I don't see why you wouldn't want to rewrite it simply as "The
colonists evidently believed that ..." Why stick in the "would
have believed" (which, IMHO you would have to give in full) if
they "evidently did believe"? It's verbose.
Thanks for the responses. Actually, I should have mentioned that I
was wording Sentence 1 for emphasis, because the reason the
colonists believed what they did has never been clear. So the
sentence would be preceded by something like, "If the colonists
had seen ships coming into the harbor, they would have believed
and evidently did believe --or just "evidently dfd," as Mark
suggested -- that the British were attacking by sea."
Does this make the sentence acceptable or more acceptable now?
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Yes, given the context you provide here, it seems perfectly acceptable
now. I agree with Mark's suggestion about not repeating "believe".
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet. |
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Paul Wolff
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:01 am
Post subject: Re: Compound Verb Help Please |
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In message <Rqold.362$i6.117@news.itd.umich.edu>, John Lawler
<jlawler@umich.edu> writes
| Quote: | Mark Brader <msb@vex.net> writes:
Jim Lyons writes:
Would someone be kind enough to tell me if it would, in the interest
of brevity, be OK to write sentence 1 as sentence 2:
Sentence 1: "The colonists would have believed and evidently did
believe that ....."
Sentence 2: "The colonists would have and evidently did believe that
....."
No. But you can say "would have believed, and evidently did, that".
Yes, surprisingly. I don't quite understand why this one works while
Sentence 2 doesn't.
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Because we can say "Yes I did" in reply to "Would you have [done
something]?", when the person answering had actually experienced the
situation posited.
Although I admit this doesn't truly explain *why*. Because we can, and
do?
--
Paul
In bocca al Lupo! |
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Jordan Abel
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:00 am
Post subject: Re: Compound Verb Help Please |
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Adrian Bailey wrote:
| Quote: | "Jim Lyons" <lyons432> wrote in message
news:svg9p01qj5ju6e3ja9rjlth6jn7c44ic05@4ax.com...
Would someone be kind enough to tell me if it would, in the interest
of brevity, be OK to write sentence 1 as sentence 2:
Sentence 1: "The colonists would have believed and evidently did
believe that ....."
Sentence 2: "The colonists would have and evidently did believe that
....."
No.
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I don't see what's wrong with the wording - though the commas should
realistically be the same color as the font, or at least have more contrast
against the background. |
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Stan Brown
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:01 am
Post subject: Re: Compound Verb Help Please |
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"" <Jim Lyons <lyons432>> wrote in alt.usage.english:
| Quote: | Would someone be kind enough to tell me if it would, in the interest
of brevity, be OK to write sentence 1 as sentence 2:
Sentence 1: "The colonists would have believed and evidently did
believe that ....."
Sentence 2: "The colonists would have and evidently did believe that
....."
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No, because "would have believe" is not a correct verb form.
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
"And if you're afraid of butter, which many people are nowa-
days, (long pause) you just put in cream." --Julia Child |
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