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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:01 am
Post subject: Re: Where there is discord, may we bring harmony |
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On 19 Nov 2004 10:48:23 GMT, Chris Malcolm <cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>
wrote:
| Quote: | Charles Riggs <chriggs@comc?st.net> wrote:
On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:13:26 -0800, "Skitt" <skitt99@comcast.net
wrote:
John Dean wrote:
Wonder how dropping out of school and getting busted for smoking pot
will impact when they reinstate the draft?
Pot smokers make poor fighters.
They might be very good fighters if someone could get them to fight.
As did the original Assassins, aka (sort of) Hashishins. They used a
method which involved persuading young lunatics while stoned out of
their brains that killing person X was a holy act which, should they
be killed in turn, meant they would be transported immediately to
Heaven, along with all the alcohol and virgins a young lunatic could
wish for.
Can you imagine? It must have taken a lot of pot to make folk believe
anything as silly and incredible as that!
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Showing again the advantages of moderation (in moderation). With pot,
I've never got beyond the point where I was happy with everyone nearby
and with everything in front of me that was eatable. That was fine by
me.
Unlike alcohol, coke, and heroin, I think it'd be difficult to
overindulge in cannabis at one sitting. Also unlike those, it is not
generally habit-forming nor does it lead, except for the odd Hashishin
apparently, to violence. A nearly ideal drug, I'd say.
--
Charles Riggs
They are no accented letters in my email address
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Robert Bannister
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 6:00 am
Post subject: Re: Where there is discord, may we bring harmony |
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John Varela wrote:
| Quote: | I am overjoyed at the failure of Osama bin Laden's
carefully timed video of invective against the US and its
President in hopes of using Islamic scare tactics on the
American people.
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You don't realise how clever Osama is: The whole idea was to rally the
American people into reelecting Bush, so that more people would swarm to
Al Qaeda.
--
Rob Bannister |
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Jim Ward
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 6:00 am
Post subject: Re: Where there is discord, may we bring harmony |
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Eris is the goddess of discord. She often posts on AUE.
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Chris Malcolm
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 6:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Where there is discord, may we bring harmony |
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Robert Bannister <robban@it.net.au> wrote:
| Quote: | John Varela wrote:
I am overjoyed at the failure of Osama bin Laden's
carefully timed video of invective against the US and its
President in hopes of using Islamic scare tactics on the
American people.
You don't realise how clever Osama is: The whole idea was to rally the
American people into reelecting Bush, so that more people would swarm to
Al Qaeda.
|
It's hardly clever: it's box-standard revolutionary tactics. But of
course you wouldn't expect most Bush voters to know that, otherwise
Bush's mirror tactic of scaring folk with Osama to get them to vote
for him wouldn't work either. Each requires the other to maintain
their support base. If Al Qaeda didn't exist the neo-cons would have
had to invent it by propaganda, just as if US foreign policy wasn't in
the hands of cowboys Osama would have had to convince his supporters
that it was.
--
Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] |
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don groves
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:03 am
Post subject: Re: Where there is discord, may we bring harmony |
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In article <30bfauF2uopg4U2@uni-berlin.de>, Chris Malcolm at
cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk exposited:
| Quote: | Robert Bannister <robban@it.net.au> wrote:
John Varela wrote:
I am overjoyed at the failure of Osama bin Laden's
carefully timed video of invective against the US and its
President in hopes of using Islamic scare tactics on the
American people.
You don't realise how clever Osama is: The whole idea was to rally the
American people into reelecting Bush, so that more people would swarm to
Al Qaeda.
It's hardly clever: it's box-standard revolutionary tactics. But of
course you wouldn't expect most Bush voters to know that, otherwise
Bush's mirror tactic of scaring folk with Osama to get them to vote
for him wouldn't work either. Each requires the other to maintain
their support base. If Al Qaeda didn't exist the neo-cons would have
had to invent it by propaganda, just as if US foreign policy wasn't in
the hands of cowboys Osama would have had to convince his supporters
that it was.
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Right on. Just as religions need their Satan; as Heaven needs its
Hell.
--
dg (domain=ccwebster) |
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:03 am
Post subject: Re: Where there is discord, may we bring harmony |
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don groves wrote:
| Quote: | Right on. Just as religions need their Satan; as Heaven needs its
Hell.
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I suppose atheism needs God (or god) as a concept.
--
Steny '08! |
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don groves
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:03 am
Post subject: Re: Where there is discord, may we bring harmony |
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In article <30cggtF2u9953U4@uni-berlin.de>, Areff at
me@privacy.net exposited:
| Quote: | don groves wrote:
Right on. Just as religions need their Satan; as Heaven needs its
Hell.
I suppose atheism needs God (or god) as a concept.
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I would think so, as something to disbelieve.
I'm no expert but only Buddhism comes to mind as not having an
"anti-Buddha". Is this true of non-Western religions in general?
Are there others?
--
dg (domain=ccwebster) |
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Mickwick
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:05 am
Post subject: Re: Where there is discord, may we bring harmony |
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In alt.usage.english, Chris Malcolm wrote:
| Quote: | It's hardly clever: it's box-standard revolutionary tactics. But of
course you wouldn't expect most Bush voters to know that, otherwise
Bush's mirror tactic of scaring folk with Osama to get them to vote
for him wouldn't work either. Each requires the other to maintain
their support base. If Al Qaeda didn't exist the neo-cons would have
had to invent it by propaganda, just as if US foreign policy wasn't in
the hands of cowboys Osama would have had to convince his supporters
that it was.
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Ho ho.
I bloody hope so, anyway.
But, intentionally funny or not, where are AUE's moral guardians? Where
is mb, where is Matti? Is Mr Malcolm's analysis not potentially
inflammatory? Is it not actually insensitive?
(Moreover, is it not wholly bogus? Yes, it is, but I can't be arsed to
explain why.)
--
Mickwick |
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Peter Moylan
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:05 am
Post subject: Re: Where there is discord, may we bring harmony |
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don groves infrared:
| Quote: | Right on. Just as religions need their Satan; as Heaven needs its
Hell.
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Something I've always wondered: could Satanism exist without
Christianity?
As I understand it - and someone will surely correct me if I'm wrong
- modern Judaism treats Satan as someone of no more than historical
importance; a god of a now-defunct religion. It took the Christians
to elevate him back to his former glory.
If that's the case, then Satanism is merely another Christian sect.
--
Peter Moylan peter at ee dot newcastle dot edu dot au
http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au (OS/2 and eCS information and software) |
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Matti Lamprhey
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Where there is discord, may we bring harmony |
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"Mickwick" <mickwick@use.reply.to> wrote...
| Quote: | In alt.usage.english, Chris Malcolm wrote:
It's hardly clever: it's box-standard revolutionary tactics. But of
course you wouldn't expect most Bush voters to know that, otherwise
Bush's mirror tactic of scaring folk with Osama to get them to vote
for him wouldn't work either. Each requires the other to maintain
their support base. If Al Qaeda didn't exist the neo-cons would have
had to invent it by propaganda, just as if US foreign policy wasn't
in the hands of cowboys Osama would have had to convince his
supporters that it was.
Ho ho.
I bloody hope so, anyway.
But, intentionally funny or not, where are AUE's moral guardians?
Where is mb, where is Matti? Is Mr Malcolm's analysis not potentially
inflammatory? Is it not actually insensitive?
(Moreover, is it not wholly bogus? Yes, it is, but I can't be arsed to
explain why.)
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I wish you would.
Matti |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Where there is discord, may we bring harmony |
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Peter Moylan typed thus:
| Quote: | don groves infrared:
Right on. Just as religions need their Satan; as Heaven needs its
Hell.
Something I've always wondered: could Satanism exist without
Christianity?
As I understand it - and someone will surely correct me if I'm wrong
- modern Judaism treats Satan as someone of no more than historical
importance; a god of a now-defunct religion. It took the Christians
to elevate him back to his former glory.
If that's the case, then Satanism is merely another Christian sect.
|
Pagans and Wiccans in the UK are sometimes accused of worshiping
Satan, and worse, of Satanic abuse of children. They are often heard
on the radio complaining that Satan is a Christian concept and so is
not a factor in their religions.
--
David
=====
replace the first component of address
with the definite article. |
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Mickwick
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Where there is discord, may we bring harmony |
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In alt.usage.english, Matti Lamprhey wrote:
| Quote: | "Mickwick" <mickwick@use.reply.to> wrote...
In alt.usage.english, Chris Malcolm wrote:
It's hardly clever: it's box-standard revolutionary tactics. But of
course you wouldn't expect most Bush voters to know that, otherwise
Bush's mirror tactic of scaring folk with Osama to get them to vote
for him wouldn't work either. Each requires the other to maintain
their support base. If Al Qaeda didn't exist the neo-cons would have
had to invent it by propaganda, just as if US foreign policy wasn't
in the hands of cowboys Osama would have had to convince his
supporters that it was.
|
[...]
| Quote: | (Moreover, is it not wholly bogus? Yes, it is, but I can't be arsed to
explain why.)
I wish you would.
|
OK.
'Each requires the other to maintain their support base' might be a
valid way of describing how things are (it's trite, it's offensive, it's
inflammatory, but it's arguable) but the paragraph then moves into the
past tense and the reciprocity breaks down, because in the past things
were very different, not least in that one half of the equation wasn't
there. Pres. Bush and the neo-cons are late arrivals in the Al Qaeda
story. Bin Laden has been attacking US targets since 1993 (initially
because of a private feud with the Saudi government: the Americans were
drenched with righteous spittle merely because they happened to be
standing behind the Saudi royal family - standing in the place Bin Laden
had wanted for himself, in fact - and it wouldn't have mattered if every
one of them had been a Howling Howard Dean, they still would have got
drenched) and even the 9/11 attacks were planned during a Democratic
administration.
Now, I suppose you could say that the 9/11 attacks reinvented Pres. Bush
and allowed the neo-cons to regain power; and I suppose it's possible
that Bin Laden is the Evil Genius some claim him to be (Evil Geniuses
don't waffle incoherently like that in the Bond films, but hey!) and
that the attacks were specifically designed to push America to the right
so that ... something clever, anyway - and thus that in a sense Bin
Laden did invent the neo-cons. (Who are these 'cowboys', by the way?
Does Mr Malcolm think that the neo-cons all look like Kinky Friedman?)
But the neo-cons most certainly didn't invent Al Qaeda, so the parallel
is wholly bogus.
One the one hand, you have something that didn't need to be invented
(because it existed), so it wasn't; and on the other you have something
that might have needed to be 'invented' (though Bin Laden's wounded
vanity* and parochial Saudi concerns about infidels polluting the
peninsula's sacred soil were entirely adequate motivators for almost a
decade), so perhaps (perhaps) it was.
See?
*Mr Bin Laden warned the Saudi government about Saddam's plans for
Kuwait and, after the invasion, he offered to lead his private army into
Kuwait to drive out the Iraqis. This offer was spurned; a US-led
coalition was preferred; Mr Bin Laden took his myrmidons to Sudan and
sulked in his tent. When he emerged, his private disappointment had been
dressed up in the ancient Wahhabi obsession with infidels polluting
Islam's holy places, but it does look very much as though all the deaths
in Nairobi, the USS Cole, New York, Washington and elsewhere -
including, indirectly and erroneously, Iraq - can ultimately be blamed
on one man's wounded vanity as much as on traditional Wahhabi
murderousness. (It's certainly more to blame than neo-con policy-makers
shouting in the wilderness during the Clinton and Bush Senior eras, I'd
say.)
--
Mickwick |
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Wood Avens
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Where there is discord, may we bring harmony |
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 09:37:01 -0000, the Omrud <usenet.omrud@gmail.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Peter Moylan typed thus:
don groves infrared:
Right on. Just as religions need their Satan; as Heaven needs its
Hell.
Something I've always wondered: could Satanism exist without
Christianity?
Pagans and Wiccans in the UK are sometimes accused of worshiping
Satan, and worse, of Satanic abuse of children. They are often heard
on the radio complaining that Satan is a Christian concept and so is
not a factor in their religions.
|
There's a useful overview of different perceptions of Satanism at
http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis2.htm.
(A good website for general information on any religion. The
irritating banner ads are their way of keeping the site afloat
financially.)
--
Katy Jennison
spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ |
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Wood Avens
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Where there is discord, may we bring harmony |
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On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:57:30 -0800, don groves <dgroves@domain.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | I'm no expert but only Buddhism comes to mind as not having an
"anti-Buddha". Is this true of non-Western religions in general?
Are there others?
|
Not an answer to your question, but Wicca and other present-day
Western paganisms don't have anti-Deity-of-choice or anti-'good'
figures either.
--
Katy Jennison
spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Where there is discord, may we bring harmony |
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Wood Avens typed thus:
| Quote: | There's a useful overview of different perceptions of Satanism at
http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis2.htm.
(A good website for general information on any religion. The
irritating banner ads are their way of keeping the site afloat
financially.)
|
That's good, thanks. I could spend too long looking around there.
--
David
=====
replace the first component of address
with the definite article. |
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