| Author |
Message |
Richard Maurer
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:06 pm
Post subject: Face the music -- big time |
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"Face the music" is used when someone knows they are
going to get chewed out or punished. Perhaps it came from
military origins, where the accused had to stand facing some
music while his fate was being decided.
But three days of KP or even 10 lashes on a bare back
is piddlin compared to what some serious musicians can blow.
From Revelations chapter 8:
6. And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets
prepared themselves to sound.
7. The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire
mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth:
and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass
was burnt up.
8. And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain
burning with fire was cast into the sea:
and the third part of the sea became blood;
9. And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea,
and had life, died;
and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
10. And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star
from heaven, burning as it were a lamp,
and it fell upon the third part of the rivers,
and upon the fountains of waters;
11. And the name of the star is called Wormwood:
and the third part of the waters became wormwood;
and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
12. And the fourth angel sounded,
and the third part of the sun was smitten,
and the third part of the moon,
and the third part of the stars;
so as the third part of them was darkened,
and the day shone not for a third part of it,
and the night likewise.
13. And I beheld, and heard an angel flying
through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice,
Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason
of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels,
which are yet to sound!
The only problem is: Who would exaggerate so much,
when sportswriters hadn't yet been invented?
-- ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Face the music -- big time |
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Richard Maurer wrote:
[...]> Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason
| Quote: | of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels,
which are yet to sound!
The only problem is: Who would exaggerate so much,
when sportswriters hadn't yet been invented?
|
Music writers can be just as bad.
Mike. |
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Jess Askin
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:06 am
Post subject: Re: Face the music -- big time |
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"Richard Maurer" <rcpb1_maurer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:01c4c8a5$b57acee0$83c9480c@default...
| Quote: | "Face the music" is used when someone knows they are
going to get chewed out or punished. Perhaps it came from
military origins, where the accused had to stand facing some
music while his fate was being decided.
But three days of KP or even 10 lashes on a bare back
is piddlin compared to what some serious musicians can blow.
From Revelations chapter 8:
6. And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets
prepared themselves to sound.
7. The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire
mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth:
and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass
was burnt up.
8. And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain
burning with fire was cast into the sea:
and the third part of the sea became blood;
9. And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea,
and had life, died;
and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
10. And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star
from heaven, burning as it were a lamp,
and it fell upon the third part of the rivers,
and upon the fountains of waters;
11. And the name of the star is called Wormwood:
and the third part of the waters became wormwood;
and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
12. And the fourth angel sounded,
and the third part of the sun was smitten,
and the third part of the moon,
and the third part of the stars;
so as the third part of them was darkened,
and the day shone not for a third part of it,
and the night likewise.
13. And I beheld, and heard an angel flying
through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice,
Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason
of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels,
which are yet to sound!
|
We'll soon find out whether it was an exaggeration.
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Bill Bonde ( ``And the La
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:06 am
Post subject: Re: Face the music -- big time |
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Richard Maurer wrote:
| Quote: |
"Face the music" is used when someone knows they are
going to get chewed out or punished. Perhaps it came from
military origins, where the accused had to stand facing some
music while his fate was being decided.
Something from Vanilla Ice no doubt. But in that case, the phrase is, |
expect to be Under Pressure.
--
So I was feeding the hummingbirds but not changing the feeder sugar
water quickly enough and it fermented into something like that stuff
that Hunter S Thompson was drinking in the Rum Diary, anyway, so I had
these drunk birds flying everywhere just like mosquitoes in Minnesota,
dashing up one side of me, darting down the other, crashing into the
windows, falling off their perches, didn't even know they perched,
flying backwards, flying backwards, it was like something out of the
Exorcist. After a while though, I got bored with it all. Next Summer I'm
going to Alaska to feed french bread soaked in Wild Turkey to polar
bears. Wish me luck! |
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Alan Jones
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Face the music -- big time |
|
|
"Richard Maurer" <rcpb1_maurer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:01c4c8a5$b57acee0$83c9480c@default...
| Quote: | "Face the music" is used when someone knows they are
going to get chewed out or punished. Perhaps it came from
military origins, where the accused had to stand facing some
music while his fate was being decided.
|
Perhaps. But could it be related to the old custom of "rough music", a
cacophony of ladles, buckets, fire-irons and the like banged and clattered
outside the house of someone strongly disapproved of by the townspeople? If
the subject of this abuse decided to open the door and stare the protesters
down, instead of cowering behind the shuttered windows, he would be
"facing the music".
This "rough music" was also called a skimmington ride or skimmity ride,
apparently from the use of milk-skimming ladles in the noise-making. I
remember there's one in Hardy's "The Mayor of Casterbridge", which was a set
text for my Higher School Cert.
Alan Jones |
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Richard Maurer
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:02 pm
Post subject: Skimmington ride |
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|
Alan Jones wrote:
Perhaps. But could it be related to the old custom of "rough music",
a cacophony of ladles, buckets, fire-irons and the like banged
and clattered outside the house of someone strongly disapproved
of by the townspeople? If the subject of this abuse decided
to open the door and stare the protesters down, instead of cowering
behind the shuttered windows, he would be "facing the music".
This "rough music" was also called a skimmington ride or
skimmity ride, apparently from the use of milk-skimming ladles
in the noise-making. I remember there's one in Hardy's
"The Mayor of Casterbridge", which was a set text
for my Higher School Cert.
Is that the same Skimmington ride
("when they last rode the Skimmington")
which appears in Sir Walter Scott's _The Waverly Novels_ 1855
edition as it appears in The Making of America Collection?
* A species of triumphal procession in honour of female supremacy,
when it rose to stich a height as to attract the attention
of the neighbourhood. It is described at full length in Hudibras,
(Part II., Conto ii.) As the procession passed on,
those who attended it in an official capacity were wont
to sweep the threshold of the houses in which Fame
affirmed the mistresses to exercise paramount authority,
which was given and received as a hint that their inmates might,
in their turn, be made the subject of a similar ovation. The
Skimmington, which in some degree resembled the proceeding
of Mumbo Jumbo in an African village, has been
long discontinued in England, apparently because female rule
has become either milder or less frequent than among our ancestors.
-- ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A subthread of Face the music -- big time |
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Alan Jones
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Skimmington ride |
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|
"Richard Maurer" <rcpb1_maurer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:01c4c966$006b5da0$3fc6480c@default...
| Quote: | Alan Jones wrote:
Perhaps. But could it be related to the old custom of "rough music",
a cacophony of ladles, buckets, fire-irons and the like banged
and clattered outside the house of someone strongly disapproved
of by the townspeople? If the subject of this abuse decided
to open the door and stare the protesters down, instead of cowering
behind the shuttered windows, he would be "facing the music".
This "rough music" was also called a skimmington ride or
skimmity ride, apparently from the use of milk-skimming ladles
in the noise-making. I remember there's one in Hardy's
"The Mayor of Casterbridge", which was a set text
for my Higher School Cert.
Is that the same Skimmington ride
("when they last rode the Skimmington")
which appears in Sir Walter Scott's _The Waverly Novels_ 1855
edition as it appears in The Making of America Collection?
* A species of triumphal procession in honour of female supremacy,
when it rose to stich a height as to attract the attention
of the neighbourhood. It is described at full length in Hudibras,
(Part II., Conto ii.) As the procession passed on,
those who attended it in an official capacity were wont
to sweep the threshold of the houses in which Fame
affirmed the mistresses to exercise paramount authority,
which was given and received as a hint that their inmates might,
in their turn, be made the subject of a similar ovation. The
Skimmington, which in some degree resembled the proceeding
of Mumbo Jumbo in an African village, has been
long discontinued in England, apparently because female rule
has become either milder or less frequent than among our ancestors.
|
I didn't know that the skimmington was anything to do with female supremacy,
or that it was triumphal. In the Hardy novel it's neither, being an attack
on the Mayor's wife who had formerly been the mistress of the man whom the
Mayor had ruined and supplanted. The Mayor is away when the ride takes
place, forewarned by other councillors that something unpleasant is planned;
they don't warn his wife, for whom they have no sympathy. She is driven by
the shame and shock of it into a seizure which eventually brings about her
death.
Alan Jones |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Face the music -- big time |
|
|
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 09:03:02 GMT, "Alan Jones" <atj@blueyonder.co.uk>
wrote:
| Quote: |
"Richard Maurer" <rcpb1_maurer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:01c4c8a5$b57acee0$83c9480c@default...
"Face the music" is used when someone knows they are
going to get chewed out or punished. Perhaps it came from
military origins, where the accused had to stand facing some
music while his fate was being decided.
Perhaps. But could it be related to the old custom of "rough music", a
cacophony of ladles, buckets, fire-irons and the like banged and clattered
outside the house of someone strongly disapproved of by the townspeople? If
the subject of this abuse decided to open the door and stare the protesters
down, instead of cowering behind the shuttered windows, he would be
"facing the music".
This "rough music" was also called a skimmington ride or skimmity ride,
apparently from the use of milk-skimming ladles in the noise-making. I
remember there's one in Hardy's "The Mayor of Casterbridge", which was a set
text for my Higher School Cert.
I recently used the word "shivaree" (there are different spellings) in |
a post. A shivaree is a post-wedding celebration exactly like the
above except for the "disapproved" part. A shivaree is held on the
first night of marriage. The noise and crowd is the same, and the new
bride and groom are expected to come out. |
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Donna Richoux
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Face the music -- big time |
|
|
Alan Jones <atj@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | "Richard Maurer" <rcpb1_maurer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:01c4c8a5$b57acee0$83c9480c@default...
"Face the music" is used when someone knows they are
going to get chewed out or punished. Perhaps it came from
military origins, where the accused had to stand facing some
music while his fate was being decided.
Perhaps. But could it be related to the old custom of "rough music", a
cacophony of ladles, buckets, fire-irons and the like banged and clattered
outside the house of someone strongly disapproved of by the townspeople? If
the subject of this abuse decided to open the door and stare the protesters
down, instead of cowering behind the shuttered windows, he would be
"facing the music".
This "rough music" was also called a skimmington ride or skimmity ride,
apparently from the use of milk-skimming ladles in the noise-making. I
remember there's one in Hardy's "The Mayor of Casterbridge", which was a set
text for my Higher School Cert.
"Face the music" is in the AUE FAQ: |
This expression, meaning "accept the unpleasant consequences", is
first recorded in the U.S. around 1850. It may derive from musical
theatre: a nervous actor would have to summon all his courage to
face the audience across the orchestra pit. Or it may be one of
three military references: an infantryman taking his place in the
line of assembly; a cavalier keeping his restive horse still while
the band starts to play; or a soldier being drummed out of his
regiment.
Discussion in 2003 turned up some slightly earlier quotations -- all
from US politicians in Washington -- and some other theories, but
nothing definitive. Ben's Proquest citations are in Message-ID:
<3FB73C31.B5ED23F7@midway.uchicago.edu>
--
Best -- Donna Richoux |
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Ben Zimmer
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Skimmington ride |
|
|
Alan Jones wrote:
| Quote: |
"Richard Maurer" <rcpb1_maurer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:01c4c966$006b5da0$3fc6480c@default...
Alan Jones wrote:
Perhaps. But could it be related to the old custom of "rough music",
a cacophony of ladles, buckets, fire-irons and the like banged
and clattered outside the house of someone strongly disapproved
of by the townspeople? If the subject of this abuse decided
to open the door and stare the protesters down, instead of cowering
behind the shuttered windows, he would be "facing the music".
This "rough music" was also called a skimmington ride or
skimmity ride, apparently from the use of milk-skimming ladles
in the noise-making. I remember there's one in Hardy's
"The Mayor of Casterbridge", which was a set text
for my Higher School Cert.
Is that the same Skimmington ride
("when they last rode the Skimmington")
which appears in Sir Walter Scott's _The Waverly Novels_ 1855
edition as it appears in The Making of America Collection?
* A species of triumphal procession in honour of female supremacy,
when it rose to stich a height as to attract the attention
of the neighbourhood. It is described at full length in Hudibras,
(Part II., Conto ii.) As the procession passed on,
those who attended it in an official capacity were wont
to sweep the threshold of the houses in which Fame
affirmed the mistresses to exercise paramount authority,
which was given and received as a hint that their inmates might,
in their turn, be made the subject of a similar ovation. The
Skimmington, which in some degree resembled the proceeding
of Mumbo Jumbo in an African village, has been
long discontinued in England, apparently because female rule
has become either milder or less frequent than among our ancestors.
I didn't know that the skimmington was anything to do with female supremacy,
or that it was triumphal. In the Hardy novel it's neither, being an attack
on the Mayor's wife who had formerly been the mistress of the man whom the
Mayor had ruined and supplanted.
|
According to the OED, the object of abuse in a "skimmington (ride)"
could be either an unfaithful husband or unfaithful wife:
skimmington
1. The man or woman personating the ill-used husband or the
offending wife in the procession (see 2) intended to ridicule
the one or the other. Also transf., a husband whose wife is
unfaithful to him; a shrewish woman. Obs.
2. A ludicrous procession, formerly common in villages and
country districts, usually intended to bring ridicule or odium
upon a woman or her husband in cases where the one was
unfaithful to, or ill-treated, the other. Also attrib. (cf. b).
b. In phrase <to ride (the) skimmington>, to hold a procession
of this kind. |
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Raymond S. Wise
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:01 am
Post subject: Re: Face the music -- big time |
|
|
"Tony Cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:rj2cp0tcqkij5jj52k29vh97ki726hcij3@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 09:03:02 GMT, "Alan Jones" <atj@blueyonder.co.uk
wrote:
"Richard Maurer" <rcpb1_maurer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:01c4c8a5$b57acee0$83c9480c@default...
"Face the music" is used when someone knows they are
going to get chewed out or punished. Perhaps it came from
military origins, where the accused had to stand facing some
music while his fate was being decided.
Perhaps. But could it be related to the old custom of "rough music", a
cacophony of ladles, buckets, fire-irons and the like banged and
clattered
outside the house of someone strongly disapproved of by the townspeople?
If
the subject of this abuse decided to open the door and stare the
protesters
down, instead of cowering behind the shuttered windows, he would be
"facing the music".
This "rough music" was also called a skimmington ride or skimmity ride,
apparently from the use of milk-skimming ladles in the noise-making. I
remember there's one in Hardy's "The Mayor of Casterbridge", which was a
set
text for my Higher School Cert.
I recently used the word "shivaree" (there are different spellings) in
a post. A shivaree is a post-wedding celebration exactly like the
above except for the "disapproved" part. A shivaree is held on the
first night of marriage. The noise and crowd is the same, and the new
bride and groom are expected to come out.
|
As it happens, the shivaree (in French, "charivari") was originally used to
show disapproval of a marriage, for example when a widow's neighbors
disapproved of her having remarried.
See
http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&as_umsgid=9qr8v101q3o@enews4.newsguy.com&lr=&hl=en
or
http://tinyurl.com/5vybm
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com |
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Paul Wolff
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:01 am
Post subject: Re: Face the music -- big time |
|
|
In message <Q--dnbdhiJ-k4wvcRVn-2A@gbronline.com>, Raymond S. Wise
<mplsrayNOSPAM@gbronline.com> writes
| Quote: |
As it happens, the shivaree (in French, "charivari") was originally used to
show disapproval of a marriage, for example when a widow's neighbors
disapproved of her having remarried.
The quondam humorous magazine Punch was subtitled "The London |
Charivari"; but it was not what it was.
http://www.punch.co.uk/historyofpunch.html
--
Paul
In bocca al Lupo! |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Face the music -- big time |
|
|
Paul Wolff wrote:
| Quote: | In message <Q--dnbdhiJ-k4wvcRVn-2A@gbronline.com>, Raymond S. Wise
mplsrayNOSPAM@gbronline.com> writes
As it happens, the shivaree (in French, "charivari") was
originally
used to show disapproval of a marriage, for example when a widow's
neighbors disapproved of her having remarried.
The quondam humorous magazine Punch was subtitled "The London
Charivari"; but it was not what it was.
http://www.punch.co.uk/historyofpunch.html
|
I'm trying to focus my mental image of the old cover, or the thing
above the inside title; but it won't come. I do have a recollection
of some kind of rumbustuous procession with Mr Punch in the lead,
though: that would go with a charivari or a rough music allusion. My
few 19C bound volumes are packed in boxes, so I can't check.
Mike. |
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Richard Maurer
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Face the music -- big time |
|
|
From the FAQ:
Or it may be one of three military references:
an infantryman taking his place in the line of assembly;
a cavalier keeping his restive horse still while the band
starts to play; or a soldier being drummed out of his regiment.
Or it may be the soldiers willing to march to battle behind
a military band.
But I think it first meant (or was resurrected during the Mexican War
to mean) willing to face battle. We see phrases like
"The Music of War"
or
"The Music of Shells"
and before that we had thoughts like "the noises of war".
The first cites occur just after the USA-Mexican War (1846-1848).
Here is a quote from someone who fought in a Kansas battle
in 1856. It was written later than that (1896), but is the only quote
so far that gives an idea of what was meant.
The enemy's fire was very deliberate, but their shooting
seemed better than our own. None of us were hit, however.
Their bullets generally passed over our heads with
a clean-cut "zip," that was far less unpleasant than
the nerve-shaking whiz of the introductory one.
We were learning to "face the music."
"The First Day's Battle at Hickory Point"
From the Diary and Reminiscenses [sic] of
Samuel James Reader
www.kshs.org/publicat/khq/1931/31_1_root.htm
In short, "face the music" is short for "face the music of war".
-- ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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Ben Zimmer
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Face the music -- big time |
|
|
Richard Maurer wrote:
| Quote: |
From the FAQ:
Or it may be one of three military references:
an infantryman taking his place in the line of assembly;
a cavalier keeping his restive horse still while the band
starts to play; or a soldier being drummed out of his regiment.
Or it may be the soldiers willing to march to battle behind
a military band.
But I think it first meant (or was resurrected during the Mexican War
to mean) willing to face battle. We see phrases like
"The Music of War"
or
"The Music of Shells"
and before that we had thoughts like "the noises of war".
The first cites occur just after the USA-Mexican War (1846-1848).
Here is a quote from someone who fought in a Kansas battle
in 1856. It was written later than that (1896), but is the only quote
so far that gives an idea of what was meant.
The enemy's fire was very deliberate, but their shooting
seemed better than our own. None of us were hit, however.
Their bullets generally passed over our heads with
a clean-cut "zip," that was far less unpleasant than
the nerve-shaking whiz of the introductory one.
We were learning to "face the music."
"The First Day's Battle at Hickory Point"
From the Diary and Reminiscenses [sic] of
Samuel James Reader
www.kshs.org/publicat/khq/1931/31_1_root.htm
In short, "face the music" is short for "face the music of war".
|
That is indeed one possibility. When we last discussed this, I found
some cites that would support that theory. One refers to a battle in
the Mexican-American War and also uses "face the music of war":
http://tinyurl.com/59oyv
BATTLE OF BUENA VISTA.
The Southern Quarterly Review. New Orleans: Jan 1851.
Vol. 3, Iss. 5; p. 146
Before these dispositions were completed, the Mexicans
made their appearance - halted beyond the range of our
fire - perceived our resolution to face the music of
war - and prepared at once for the conflict.
But that's just one of several early explanations. James Fenimore
Cooper, some time before his death in 1851, said the phrase had a
theatrical derivation:
http://tinyurl.com/3kb3y
Americanisms; the English of the New world.
Schele De Vere, Maximilian, 1820-1898.
New York, C. Scribner & company, 1872.
Face the music, to, a slang phrase, derived, according
to J. F. Cooper, from the stage, and used by actors in
the green-room, when they are nervously preparing to go
on the boards and literally face the music. Another
explanation traces it back to militia musters, where
every man is expected to appear fully equipped and
armed, when in rank and file, facing the music. The
meaning of the phrase is, generally, to show one's hand,
though it is often used as a summons to pay the bill.
"Rabelais' unpleasant 'quarter' is by our more
picturesque people called facing the music."
(J. F. Cooper.)
The above cites can be found on the "Making of America" database from
the University of Michigan. Checking Cornell's MoA database, which
includes sources not found on Michigan's MoA, I found another early cite
with a different explanation:
http://tinyurl.com/3pw9y
A Political Letter to a Friend in the Country
The American Whig review, Nov 1852.
Volume 16, Issue 95, pp. 569-574
Now that the canvass is over, and the worst is on
us, let us not fear to answer these questions frankly.
Let us face the music of the band that has drummed us
to the place of execution; and whether as ghostly
apparitions, or as survivors of the political
guillotine, let us ascertain the extent of our
punishment, and take counsel how we shall soonest
escape its deadly atmosphere.
I don't think I've seen "face the music" related to an execution before.
But this is yet another cite from an antebellum political source, to add
to the many that I noted in our last thread on the topic:
http://groups.google.com/groups?th=4d8326547606e44 |
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