| Author |
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:00 pm
Post subject: Re: They Themself |
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Citizen Ted wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:23:15 +0000, John Hall
nospam_nov03@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
In article <gKTkd.634$9A.37507@news.xtra.co.nz>,
Kiwi Gill <apext@xtra.co.nz> writes:
I have started to accept the singular "they" but the singular
"themself" takes a bit of swallowing.
"The student must complete all questions themself."
I'm reliably informed that it was used centuries ago and is now
making a re-appearance.
Any thoughts?
It's presumably an attempt to be "gender neutral", but it seems very
odd to me.
I have seen instances where the female gender is preferentially
identified in pronouns. I'm currently poring over "Mastering Audio" by
Bob Katz, a technical tome about post-mix audio engineering. In it, he
often makes statements like: "The engineer can decide how she wants to
employ dithering techniques, provided she is careful not to introduce
white noise into her mix". I can understand Mr. Katz' interest in
championing women in this male-dominated field, as women are
increasingly interested in the technical aspects of music and should
be encouraged to make continual inroads.
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I don't believe they (the authors) think as deeply as that. I remember
sitting through a paper at an Information Science conference where the
author, a male computer scientist, would consistently refer to the
librarian - the putative user of the class of software being discussed - as
"she". I spent the entire paper listening carefully, but I was unable to
exclude the possibility that the author believed all librarians to be
female - and this was possibly the opposite of his intention!
--
John Briggs
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Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 12:37 am
Post subject: Re: They Themself |
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On Monday, in article
<9p8hp0drgcq6d57ef3fcskpjiq83ct1sq1@4ax.com>
philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net "Phil C." wrote:
| Quote: | part in our familiar version. In this verse you notice it: "Look not
upon the wine when it is red; when it giveth HIS color aright in the
cup."
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I could have sworn that Bernard Miles (in "Me and Old Charlie") told me
"Look not upon the wine when it be red; for it biteth like the serpent
and stingeth like the adder".
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk
"I don't use Linux. I prefer to use an OS supported by a large multi-
national vendor, with a good office suite, excellent network/internet
software and decent hardware support." |
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Kiwi Gill
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Post subject: Re: They Themself |
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"John Mazor" <mazorj@erols.com> wrote in message
news:A7adnQFnzqwWaQrcRVn-gA@rcn.net...
| Quote: | "Kiwi Gill" <apext@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3GDld.1506$9A.66570@news.xtra.co.nz...
"Molly Mockford" wrote
And I have noticed that the type of man who says "I don't want to be
referred to as a chair - I'm not a piece of wood" is generally
perfectly
content to form part of a board.
Particularly if he is given a platform as well...
And the floor.
That would amount to an open door policy... |
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Molly Mockford
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:01 pm
Post subject: Re: They Themself |
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At 08:44:54 on Wed, 17 Nov 2004, Kiwi Gill <apext@xtra.co.nz> wrote in
<EMsmd.2911$9A.110815@news.xtra.co.nz>:
| Quote: |
"John Mazor" <mazorj@erols.com> wrote in message
news:A7adnQFnzqwWaQrcRVn-gA@rcn.net...
"Kiwi Gill" <apext@xtra.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3GDld.1506$9A.66570@news.xtra.co.nz...
"Molly Mockford" wrote
And I have noticed that the type of man who says "I don't want to be
referred to as a chair - I'm not a piece of wood" is generally
perfectly
content to form part of a board.
Particularly if he is given a platform as well...
And the floor.
That would amount to an open door policy...
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And would probably raise the roof.
--
Molly Mockford
I think I've been too long on my own, but the little green goblin that
lives under the sink says I'm OK - and he's never wrong, so I must be!
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) |
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David Picton
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:08 am
Post subject: Re: They Themself |
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tony@softins.clara.co.uk (Tony Mountifield) wrote in message news:<cn304p$dp2$1@softins.clara.co.uk>...
| Quote: | In article <sd7ld.926$9A.47987@news.xtra.co.nz>,
Kiwi Gill <apext@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
generic 'he' now being unacceptable.
Not to everyone.
But on the original point, I have heard "themselves" used as a gender-
neutral singular, and have most likely even used it that way myself.
|
COD11 lists 'themself' but adds a usage note:
The standard reflexive form corresponding to 'they' and 'them' is
'themselves'. The singular form 'themself' has been used recently to
correspond to the singular form of 'they' when referring to a person
of unspecified sex, as in 'helping someone to help themself'. However
.... 'themselves' should be used instead ...
It seems to me that 'themself' will eventually be accepted, but it
clearly isn't widely regarded as standard usage at present.
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Kiwi Gill
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:13 am
Post subject: Re: They Themself |
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"David Picton" <djpicton@bigmailbox.net> wrote in message
news:2ad9e934.0411231200.2736fca@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | tony@softins.clara.co.uk (Tony Mountifield) wrote in message
news:<cn304p$dp2$1@softins.clara.co.uk>...
In article <sd7ld.926$9A.47987@news.xtra.co.nz>,
Kiwi Gill <apext@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
generic 'he' now being unacceptable.
Not to everyone.
But on the original point, I have heard "themselves" used as a gender-
neutral singular, and have most likely even used it that way myself.
COD11 lists 'themself' but adds a usage note:
The standard reflexive form corresponding to 'they' and 'them' is
'themselves'. The singular form 'themself' has been used recently to
correspond to the singular form of 'they' when referring to a person
of unspecified sex, as in 'helping someone to help themself'. However
... 'themselves' should be used instead ...
It seems to me that 'themself' will eventually be accepted, but it
clearly isn't widely regarded as standard usage at present.
Interesting to hear. Thank you. |
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