| Author |
Message |
Areff
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:20 pm
Post subject: Re: zeeeee-ro |
|
|
Michael J Hardy wrote:
| Quote: | I also pronounce the first syllable of "zero" to rhyme with "ear",
and that means that I do NOT say "zee-ro", i.e., I do NOT pronounce
it like "feet".
|
Same here. Either the others really do say "zee-row" or else they don't
understand what we're talking about.
Phonetically, I suspect it's something like [zi@r oU] for "zero", as
opposed to [zij roU] for "zee-row".
| Quote: | But now I see people saying they pronounce it as
in "ear" when what they mean seems to be that they DO pronounce it
as in "feet".
|
I pronounce "hero" like "hear-o", not like "he-row".
| Quote: | Actually me "mirror", "ear", and "zero" seems to me to be about
half way between "feet" and "fit". -- Mike Hardy
|
I'd say the same for me if I could substitute "nearer" for "mirror". I
most naturally use a "fit"-like vowel for "mirror".
--
Steny '08!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
raymond o'hara
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 1:46 pm
Post subject: Re: zeeeee-ro |
|
|
"Michael J Hardy" <mjhardy@mit.edu> wrote in message
news:4193eb40$0$561$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu...
| Quote: | What is the geographic distribution of this pronunciation,
which makes the vowel in the first syllable sound like the
vowel in "feet"? I've always been accustomed to pronouncing
it with the vowel heard in the first syllable of "mirror",
which I expect Richard Fontana would tell me is the same as
the short "i" in "fit". -- Mike Hardy
|
In eastern Mass. we say it 'zair o' .iIve never heard it said 'zee ro' or
in any way mirroring the pronunciation mirror. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steve Hayes
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:06 pm
Post subject: Re: zeeeee-ro |
|
|
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 14:39:53 +1300, "Freddy" <ant@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
| Quote: | Ditto. In this part of the world the first vowel is pronounced as ear.
|
Hear hear. Here too.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jonathan Jordan
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:06 pm
Post subject: Re: zeeeee-ro |
|
|
"raymond o'hara" <reoh@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:8%Ykd.398039$D%.93286@attbi_s51...
| Quote: |
"Michael J Hardy" <mjhardy@mit.edu> wrote in message
news:4193eb40$0$561$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu...
What is the geographic distribution of this pronunciation,
which makes the vowel in the first syllable sound like the
vowel in "feet"? I've always been accustomed to pronouncing
it with the vowel heard in the first syllable of "mirror",
which I expect Richard Fontana would tell me is the same as
the short "i" in "fit". -- Mike Hardy
In eastern Mass. we say it 'zair o' .iIve never heard it said 'zee
ro' or
in any way mirroring the pronunciation mirror.
|
Do you have the "chair"/"cheer" merger? (=AreffE "Are you ChICh or
ChINCh?")
Jonathan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jonathan Jordan
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:06 pm
Post subject: Re: zeeeee-ro |
|
|
"Michael J Hardy" <mjhardy@mit.edu> wrote in message
news:419420e1$0$568$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu...
| Quote: | Freddy (ant@paradise.net.nz) wrote:
"Skitt" <skitt99@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:2vi8j1F2c4gfbU1@uni-berlin.de...
Michael J Hardy wrote:
What is the geographic distribution of this pronunciation,
which makes the vowel in the first syllable sound like the
vowel in "feet"? I've always been accustomed to pronouncing
it with the vowel heard in the first syllable of "mirror",
which I expect Richard Fontana would tell me is the same as
the short "i" in "fit". -- Mike Hardy
I haven't heard anyone say it with the "hit" vowel, but that does
not mean much. Maybe I have heard it in rapid speech.
--
Ditto. In this part of the world the first vowel is pronounced
as ear.
I also pronounce the first syllable of "zero" to rhyme with "ear",
and that means that I do NOT say "zee-ro", i.e., I do NOT pronounce
it like "feet". But now I see people saying they pronounce it as
in "ear" when what they mean seems to be that they DO pronounce it
as in "feet".
Actually me "mirror", "ear", and "zero" seems to me to be about
half way between "feet" and "fit". -- Mike Hardy
|
For those of us who don't have tense-lax neutralisation before /r/,
the vowels in "ear" and "mirror" are different. The vowel in "mirror"
is /I/, the "short i" of "fit". I also use this vowel in "squirrel",
"satirical", and "Sirius", amongst other words.
For me, the vowel in "ear" is like the vowel in the first syllable of
"theatre" (which for me is a two-syllable word). It's a diphthong,
something like [I@] or [i@]. I use this vowel in "zero", "nearer" and
"serious".
I would say that "zeer-o" represents my pronunciation better than
"zee-ro", but both are closer than "zirro".
Jonathan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steven Howell
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:06 pm
Post subject: Re: zeeeee-ro |
|
|
On 11 Nov 2004 22:44:16 GMT, mjhardy@mit.edu (Michael J Hardy) wrote:
| Quote: | What is the geographic distribution of this pronunciation,
which makes the vowel in the first syllable sound like the
vowel in "feet"? I've always been accustomed to pronouncing
it with the vowel heard in the first syllable of "mirror",
which I expect Richard Fontana would tell me is the same as
the short "i" in "fit". -- Mike Hardy
|
I do that. The first vowel in "zero" for me is the same as the one in "hit".
"Nero" and "clear" are like that too. I am from western Tennessee in the U.S.,
while my parents are from southern Mississippi and central Illinois.
--
Steven Howell
Why do we park in driveways and drive on parkways? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Lawler
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:07 pm
Post subject: Re: zeeeee-ro |
|
|
Joe Fineman <joe_f@verizon.net> writes:
| Quote: | mjhardy@mit.edu (Michael J Hardy) writes:
What is the geographic distribution of this pronunciation, which
makes the vowel in the first syllable sound like the vowel in
"feet"? I've always been accustomed to pronouncing it with the
vowel heard in the first syllable of "mirror", which I expect
Richard Fontana would tell me is the same as the short "i" in "fit".
|
That's a very expensive question to answer accurately, Michael.
You'd need a worldwide dialectological survey.
But it's an interesting question.
There's implications for phonological theory in the answer.
| Quote: | I think of "zee-ro" as telephone talk, like "fo-wer" and "sev-ven".
When I am not dictating, my usage agrees with yours.
|
That's probably a factor in legitimizing the pronunciation.
And since it's a practical use, it will arise again and again,
thus providing an external force to keep it in circulation.
| Quote: | However, there may be people who routinely break words with a primary
followed by a secondary stress into distinct syllables, so that if the
second syllable begins with r, it does not color the preceding vowel.
I have heard "hee-ro" and "tow-roid". I suspect everybody does that
if the word is a compound like "hayride".
|
I think that's right. At first I thought this might have something to do
with the way some English dialects extend and generalize the first-syllable
stress tendency in disyllabic nouns, e.g, adDRESS (v) / ADdress (n), to
words where it doesn't ordinarily occur in standard English: POlice,
UMbrella, INsurance, CIGarette, etc. These are known in the trade as the
'Police-Umbrella' (or PU) dialects.
But on second thought, added stress wouldn't necessarily affect the vowel
quality. Normally tense and lax vowel nuclei neutralize before /r/, but
here's a clear case of non-neutralization. If, as you suggest, the syllable
break for people pronouncing 'zero' this way is /'zi.ro/ instead of
/'zir.o/, then the neutralization wouldn't be triggered, at least by some
accounts of how it happens. That fact in turn could be used to argue for
those accounts.
I'm not enough of a phonologist to be able to say which theories those are
or how good an argument it'd be, but it's at least an interesting
possibility.
-John Lawler U of Michigan Linguistics Dept
http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler/disclaimers.html
#include disclaimers.h |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jonathan Jordan
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:23 pm
Post subject: Re: zeeeee-ro |
|
|
"Areff" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:2vj2ntF2mke0kU1@uni-berlin.de...
| Quote: | Michael J Hardy wrote:
What is the geographic distribution of this pronunciation,
which makes the vowel in the first syllable sound like the
vowel in "feet"? I've always been accustomed to pronouncing
it with the vowel heard in the first syllable of "mirror",
which I expect Richard Fontana would tell me is the same as
the short "i" in "fit". -- Mike Hardy
I don't pronounce "zero" in either of those ways. I use the "near"
vowel.
It may be a matter of syllable division: /zir oU/, whereas
"zee-row"
would be /zi roU/.
|
Vaguely related question: is Cairo, Illinois really "Kay-ro" or is it
"Cair-o"? In my accent the "say" vowel, like the "see" vowel, doesn't
normally occur before /r/ - the spelling <air> followed by a vowel
suggests the "Mary" vowel.
Jonathan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ross Howard
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:05 pm
Post subject: Re: zeeeee-ro |
|
|
On 12 Nov 2004 06:20:14 GMT, Areff <me@privacy.net> wrought:
| Quote: | I pronounce "hero" like "hear-o", not like "he-row".
|
So do all BrE speakers. What, then, was Bonnie Tyler doing looking out
for one of the latter. Perhaps we should blame Jim Steinman.[1]
[1. Y'mean the guy who, not content with foisting Meatloaf upon us,
was also responsible for creating the precedent that allowed both
Kenny G and Howard Stern to commit their heinous crimes against
coiffistical decency? For it is he.]
--
Ross Howard |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Skitt
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:06 pm
Post subject: Re: zeeeee-ro |
|
|
Jeff Urs wrote:
| Quote: | "Maria Conlon" writes:
I give. What is "tow-roid"? I'm drawing a blank.
Presumably the word is "toroid", a doughnut shape.
|
For that, "toe-roid" might have been a better pronunciation descriptor.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Skitt
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:06 pm
Post subject: Re: zeeeee-ro |
|
|
Areff wrote:
| Quote: | Michael J Hardy wrote:
What is the geographic distribution of this pronunciation,
which makes the vowel in the first syllable sound like the
vowel in "feet"? I've always been accustomed to pronouncing
it with the vowel heard in the first syllable of "mirror",
which I expect Richard Fontana would tell me is the same as
the short "i" in "fit". -- Mike Hardy
I don't pronounce "zero" in either of those ways. I use the "near"
vowel.
|
Ah, you pronounce it as if it were written "zearo". I see.
| Quote: | It may be a matter of syllable division: /zir oU/, whereas
"zee-row" would be /zi roU/.
|
Yup, the latter it is (for me).
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Skitt
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:06 pm
Post subject: Re: zeeeee-ro |
|
|
Joe Fineman wrote:
| Quote: | (Michael J Hardy) writes:
What is the geographic distribution of this pronunciation, which
makes the vowel in the first syllable sound like the vowel in
"feet"? I've always been accustomed to pronouncing it with the
vowel heard in the first syllable of "mirror", which I expect
Richard Fontana would tell me is the same as the short "i" in "fit".
I think of "zee-ro" as telephone talk, like "fo-wer" and "sev-ven".
When I am not dictating, my usage agrees with yours.
However, there may be people who routinely break words with a primary
followed by a secondary stress into distinct syllables, so that if the
second syllable begins with r, it does not color the preceding vowel.
I have heard "hee-ro" and "tow-roid". I suspect everybody does that
if the word is a compound like "hayride".
|
I try to enunciate words clearly, so my speech is not a good example of how
some people might speak. I should stay out of pronunciation threads.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raymond o'hara
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 10:06 pm
Post subject: Re: zeeeee-ro |
|
|
"Jonathan Jordan" <jonathan.jordan@sheffield.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:2vjc5lF2mk8j0U1@uni-berlin.de...
| Quote: | "raymond o'hara" <reoh@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:8%Ykd.398039$D%.93286@attbi_s51...
"Michael J Hardy" <mjhardy@mit.edu> wrote in message
news:4193eb40$0$561$b45e6eb0@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu...
What is the geographic distribution of this pronunciation,
which makes the vowel in the first syllable sound like the
vowel in "feet"? I've always been accustomed to pronouncing
it with the vowel heard in the first syllable of "mirror",
which I expect Richard Fontana would tell me is the same as
the short "i" in "fit". -- Mike Hardy
In eastern Mass. we say it 'zair o' .iIve never heard it said 'zee
ro' or
in any way mirroring the pronunciation mirror.
Do you have the "chair"/"cheer" merger? (=AreffE "Are you ChICh or
ChINCh?")
Jonathan
|
cheer has a cheese sound that ch air doesn't .
I love these pronouciation threads , soon I'm not sure how i really say
something after I say it a few dozen times. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jordan Abel
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:06 am
Post subject: Re: zeeeee-ro |
|
|
Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
| Quote: | On 11 Nov 2004, Michael J Hardy wrote
What is the geographic distribution of this pronunciation,
which makes the vowel in the first syllable sound like the
vowel in "feet"? I've always been accustomed to pronouncing
it with the vowel heard in the first syllable of "mirror",
which I expect Richard Fontana would tell me is the same as
the short "i" in "fit". -- Mike Hardy
In my accent, the vowels in "feet" and the first syllable of "mirror"
are the same. I suspect the geographic distribution is similar to one
or both of MIMIM and CIC.
|
In mine, the sound of the first vowel in "zero" is halfway between the
"feet" vowel and the "mirror" vowel, and is the same phoneme as the "feet"
vowel. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Michael J Hardy
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:06 am
Post subject: Re: zeeeee-ro |
|
|
Areff (me@privacy.net) wrote:
| Quote: | Michael J Hardy wrote:
What is the geographic distribution of this pronunciation,
which makes the vowel in the first syllable sound like the
vowel in "feet"? I've always been accustomed to pronouncing
it with the vowel heard in the first syllable of "mirror",
which I expect Richard Fontana would tell me is the same as
the short "i" in "fit". -- Mike Hardy
I don't pronounce "zero" in either of those ways. I use the "near" vowel.
|
So do I. Did I somehow give the impression I meant something else.
-- Mike Hardy |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in