| Author |
Message |
Jess Askin
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:02 am
Post subject: Redneck in South Africa, etc. |
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OK. I'm reading The Steam Pig by James McClure, which I highly recommend
BTW. It's set in S. Africa in 1971, and at one point the Afrikaans [1]
policeman is trying to find out which optician was patronized by the murder
victim. It turns out to be an immigrant from England (Reading) So after the
optician leaves, the detective asks his partner:
"How was she to know he was a redneck? Look at this list -- she could have
picked any one of them. They're not all from overseas."
So it sounds like "redneck" means "foreigner" in S. African. Is that right?
In any event it's different from the American usage. What's the derivation?
"Tsotsi" also shows up: the avuncular Bantu policeman is trying to get
information out of a street urchin whom he's bribing with a Vanilla Glory
(ice cream cone?). The boy says:
"This very small sucker is nearly finished."
"Look in your pocket."
"Hau!"
"Yes, so you see you are not the only one who is clever with pockets, little
_tsotsi_."
[1] Can that apply to a person, or just the language? |
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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:02 am
Post subject: Re: Redneck in South Africa, etc. |
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Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: | "Skitt" wrote:
Tony Cooper wrote:
"Jess Askin" wrote:
OK. I'm reading The Steam Pig by James McClure, which I highly
recommend BTW. It's set in S. Africa in 1971,
My God, but that's an old book. I read it years and years ago.
Recently, I moved some lawyer's bookcases to paint the wall behind
them and reassessed what books in it I wanted to keep around.
You mean, you don't even know the lawyer whose bookcases you were
thinking about raiding?
I think the proper term is "lawyer's bookcases". See:
http://tinyurl.com/5peyd I'm not sure if the apostrophe is
required, but it makes me feel comfortable.
|
Be that as it may, my interpretation is another perfectly good one. (It was
a feeble joke, BTW.)
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:03 am
Post subject: Re: Redneck in South Africa, etc. |
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On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 04:32:54 GMT, Tony Cooper
<tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:58:18 -0800, "Skitt" <skitt99@comcast.net
wrote:
Tony Cooper wrote:
"Jess Askin" wrote:
OK. I'm reading The Steam Pig by James McClure, which I highly
recommend BTW. It's set in S. Africa in 1971,
My God, but that's an old book. I read it years and years ago.
Recently, I moved some lawyer's bookcases to paint the wall behind
them and reassessed what books in it I wanted to keep around.
You mean, you don't even know the lawyer whose bookcases you were thinking
about raiding?
I think the proper term is "lawyer's bookcases". See:
http://tinyurl.com/5peyd I'm not sure if the apostrophe is
required, but it makes me feel comfortable.
Looking at that image again, that's not what I have. Mine are |
antiques, and separate sections for each shelf. The one in the image
seems to be one-piece construction. The image shows the general
style, though. |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:03 am
Post subject: Re: Redneck in South Africa, etc. |
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On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:58:18 -0800, "Skitt" <skitt99@comcast.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | Tony Cooper wrote:
"Jess Askin" wrote:
OK. I'm reading The Steam Pig by James McClure, which I highly
recommend BTW. It's set in S. Africa in 1971,
My God, but that's an old book. I read it years and years ago.
Recently, I moved some lawyer's bookcases to paint the wall behind
them and reassessed what books in it I wanted to keep around.
You mean, you don't even know the lawyer whose bookcases you were thinking
about raiding?
|
I think the proper term is "lawyer's bookcases". See:
http://tinyurl.com/5peyd I'm not sure if the apostrophe is
required, but it makes me feel comfortable. |
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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:04 am
Post subject: Re: Redneck in South Africa, etc. |
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Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: | "Jess Askin" wrote:
OK. I'm reading The Steam Pig by James McClure, which I highly
recommend BTW. It's set in S. Africa in 1971,
My God, but that's an old book. I read it years and years ago.
Recently, I moved some lawyer's bookcases to paint the wall behind
them and reassessed what books in it I wanted to keep around.
|
You mean, you don't even know the lawyer whose bookcases you were thinking
about raiding?
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:04 am
Post subject: Re: Redneck in South Africa, etc. |
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On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:43:43 -0600, "Jess Askin"
<nospam@dontbother.net> wrote:
| Quote: | OK. I'm reading The Steam Pig by James McClure, which I highly recommend
BTW. It's set in S. Africa in 1971,
|
My God, but that's an old book. I read it years and years ago.
Recently, I moved some lawyer's bookcases to paint the wall behind
them and reassessed what books in it I wanted to keep around. I
re-read "The Steam Pig", but discarded it later. Too many books, and
too little room.
You know it's one of a series, don't you? McClure wrote several books
about the same policemen. I've never seen any of the other books in
my favorite used bookstores. |
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Bloke
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 6:05 am
Post subject: Re: Redneck in South Africa, etc. |
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"Jess Askin" spake thus:
| Quote: | So it sounds like "redneck" means "foreigner" in S. African. Is that right?
In any event it's different from the American usage. What's the derivation?
|
The Afrikaans word is "Roineck", used to refer to the English, as opposed to
the Afrikaaners.
I believe it used because the English were considered to have fair skins and
burnt easily, unaccustomed to the African sun, in contrast to the seasoned
Boers (farmers).
Afrikaaner is the person, Afrikaans the lingo.
Bloke |
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Steve Hayes
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 2:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Redneck in South Africa, etc. |
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On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:43:43 -0600, "Jess Askin" <nospam@dontbother.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | OK. I'm reading The Steam Pig by James McClure, which I highly recommend
BTW. It's set in S. Africa in 1971, and at one point the Afrikaans [1]
policeman is trying to find out which optician was patronized by the murder
victim. It turns out to be an immigrant from England (Reading) So after the
optician leaves, the detective asks his partner:
"How was she to know he was a redneck? Look at this list -- she could have
picked any one of them. They're not all from overseas."
So it sounds like "redneck" means "foreigner" in S. African. Is that right?
In any event it's different from the American usage. What's the derivation?
|
It means Brit.
It refers to the pale and rickety Brits who came here before Clean Air Acts
and the like, who had never been exposed to ultra-violet rays because it was
filtered through fog.
When they came to South Africa and went out into the sun, their pale necks
turned red.
| Quote: | "Tsotsi" also shows up: the avuncular Bantu policeman is trying to get
information out of a street urchin whom he's bribing with a Vanilla Glory
(ice cream cone?). The boy says:
"This very small sucker is nearly finished."
"Look in your pocket."
"Hau!"
"Yes, so you see you are not the only one who is clever with pockets, little
_tsotsi_."
|
From the context, the "Vnilla Glory" was probably an ice lolly - ice cream on
a stick, since it is referred to as a "sucker". "Sucker" is a comon term for
a lolly or lollipop.
| Quote: | [1] Can that apply to a person, or just the language?
|
Yes, just like "English", as in "an English policeman". In that context it
would mean a white English-speaking South African policeman, who might or
might not be referred to as a "rooinek" (redneck) or "soutie" (salty).
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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Jess Askin
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Redneck in South Africa, etc. |
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"Tony Cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2vn5p05m92boodrqnpn5ejc18kvvkshr4g@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:43:43 -0600, "Jess Askin"
nospam@dontbother.net> wrote:
OK. I'm reading The Steam Pig by James McClure, which I highly recommend
BTW. It's set in S. Africa in 1971,
My God, but that's an old book. I read it years and years ago.
Recently, I moved some lawyer's bookcases to paint the wall behind
them and reassessed what books in it I wanted to keep around. I
re-read "The Steam Pig", but discarded it later. Too many books, and
too little room.
You know it's one of a series, don't you? McClure wrote several books
about the same policemen. I've never seen any of the other books in
my favorite used bookstores.
|
I found it at my local library after seeing it on several "top 100
whodunnits of all time" lists. I would definitely read more books in the
series if I could find them. |
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Jim Ward
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Redneck in South Africa, etc. |
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On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 03:50:06 GMT, Tony Cooper
<tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | You know it's one of a series, don't you? McClure wrote several books
about the same policemen. I've never seen any of the other books in
my favorite used bookstores.
|
In case anyone is wondering, the complete series is:
The Steam Pig (1971)
The Caterpillar Cop (1972)
The Gooseberry Fool (1974)
Snake (1975)
The Sunday Hangman (1977)
The Blood of an Englishman (1980)
The Artful Egg (1984)
The Song Dog (1991)
I keep meaning to dig into, but never get a round tuit. |
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Sara Lorimer
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:08 am
Post subject: Re: Redneck in South Africa, etc. |
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Jess Askin wrote:
| Quote: | OK. I'm reading The Steam Pig by James McClure, which I highly recommend
BTW.
|
Know what makes me really, really happy? Reading a book recommendation
in AUE, going to my library's web site, and requesting the book.
Ahhhh... modern life is wonderful.
--
SML
Dignity, always dignity. |
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Ray Heindl
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:42 am
Post subject: Re: Redneck in South Africa, etc. |
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Tony Cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | I think the proper term is "lawyer's bookcases". See:
http://tinyurl.com/5peyd I'm not sure if the apostrophe is
required, but it makes me feel comfortable.
|
They're also called "barristers' bookcases", though nobody but me seems
to use the apostrophe.
| Quote: | Looking at that image again, that's not what I have. Mine are
antiques, and separate sections for each shelf. The one in the
image seems to be one-piece construction. The image shows the
general style, though.
|
I think the key characteristic is that they have glass doors that open
upward. Mine isn't quite old enough to be antique, but it is multi-
piece, which makes it *much* easier to move. I've seen very
utilitarian metal ones in battleship gray, which I assume would still
be called by the same name even though no self-respecting lawyer (or
barrister) would have them in his office.
--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply to: xvortren-news@yaxhoo.com) |
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Default User
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:32 am
Post subject: Re: Redneck in South Africa, etc. |
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Sara Lorimer wrote:
| Quote: | Jess Askin wrote:
OK. I'm reading The Steam Pig by James McClure, which I highly
recommend
BTW.
Know what makes me really, really happy? Reading a book
recommendation
in AUE, going to my library's web site, and requesting the book.
Ahhhh... modern life is wonderful.
Aren't those web-based library interfaces great? |
Brian |
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Robin Bignall
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Redneck in South Africa, etc. |
|
|
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:33:38 -0500, Jim Ward
<tomcatpolka@NyOaShPoAoM.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 03:50:06 GMT, Tony Cooper
tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
You know it's one of a series, don't you? McClure wrote several books
about the same policemen. I've never seen any of the other books in
my favorite used bookstores.
In case anyone is wondering, the complete series is:
The Steam Pig (1971)
The Caterpillar Cop (1972)
The Gooseberry Fool (1974)
Snake (1975)
The Sunday Hangman (1977)
The Blood of an Englishman (1980)
The Artful Egg (1984)
The Song Dog (1991)
I keep meaning to dig into, but never get a round tuit.
|
I've got them all, and they're good reads not just because of the cops
and robbers aspects, but also their insights into the social
conditions obtaining in SA. Similarly, the series of crime thrillers
by Maj Sjöwall and Per Wahlöö set in Sweden during the 1970s open
one's eyes to how the poor live in this archetypal welfare state.
--
wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall
Hertfordshire
England |
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Laura F Spira
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Redneck in South Africa, etc. |
|
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Robin Bignall wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:33:38 -0500, Jim Ward
tomcatpolka@NyOaShPoAoM.com> wrote:
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 03:50:06 GMT, Tony Cooper
tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
You know it's one of a series, don't you? McClure wrote several books
about the same policemen. I've never seen any of the other books in
my favorite used bookstores.
In case anyone is wondering, the complete series is:
The Steam Pig (1971)
The Caterpillar Cop (1972)
The Gooseberry Fool (1974)
Snake (1975)
The Sunday Hangman (1977)
The Blood of an Englishman (1980)
The Artful Egg (1984)
The Song Dog (1991)
I keep meaning to dig into, but never get a round tuit.
I've got them all, and they're good reads not just because of the cops
and robbers aspects, but also their insights into the social
conditions obtaining in SA. Similarly, the series of crime thrillers
by Maj Sjöwall and Per Wahlöö set in Sweden during the 1970s open
one's eyes to how the poor live in this archetypal welfare state.
|
Henning Mankell, too.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email) |
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